The Steelers Dysfunction Thread

LaMarr Woodley's injury-plagued 2012 campaign has the Pittsburgh Steelers concerned about their outside linebacker's workout habits -- and at least one of his teammates talking.


The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported Sunday the Steelers believe Woodley must approach his training regimen "with more diligence" after seeing parts of the past two seasons wiped away by a string of hamstring, groin and ankle issues.

"He was awful," one anonymous teammate said of Woodley's performance in 2012, in comments to Ron Cook of the Post-Gazette. "He tells us he works out, but we didn't see it. He wasn't in shape. That has to be a reason why he was always hurt."

Steelers general manager Kevin Colbert defended Woodley to the newspaper, but the team cannot be thrilled about the linebacker's play since signing a six-year, $61.5 million contract prior to the 2011 season. Woodley was a terror for much of that campaign, compiling nine sacks through eight games before going down with a hamstring injury against the New England Patriots** in Week 8.

After piling up 35 sacks from 2008 to 2010, Woodley has just four takedowns since his injury against the Patriots** two Octobers ago. One reason for the concern -- and unflattering comments -- in Pittsburgh.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000139937/article/lamarr-woodley-reportedly-ripped-by-steelers-player

discension amongst the players? Time to close ranks and fix this problem internally.

If it wasn't for the numbers on the jersey I could've sworn a NT was playing OLB

stlrtruck wrote:

discension amongst the players? Time to close ranks and fix this problem internally.

Isn't that a problem that arises from lack of leadership? You and Ginger preached a lot during last offseason about the lack of leadership, and I preached a lot about how Ben's attitude could possibly affect the entire team. I'm certainly not blaming Ben for Woodley being out of shape, but he most certainly set the tone for players airing their criticisms in public. We've seen nothing but bad leadership on this team since Farrior and Ward were let go. Someone needs to take charge. Now!

Unfortunately, Woodley was one of the guys we were expecting to step up and be a leader.

Ryan Clark addressing this situation:

Quote :

"My biggest problem with that is not Lamarr or not someone's feelings about LaMarr. My problem is that now it's public. You know, we were talking about the Ravens earlier. We were talking about the brotherhood. We were talking about the family that they were. And you know, we all have arguments with our brothers, sisters, cousins, but that stays in-house. You know, what you talk about then stays there and it doesn't get out to the public. So that's the problem. I think that shows that this team, which was normally close ... you know we had the Joey Porters and the Alan Fanecas, and you know, just down the line ... leader after leader, this team was close-knit. It shows that there is a fraction in that. I think that's the most disappointing thing about that coming out."

http://www.nfl.com/videos/pittsburgh-steelers/0ap2000000140051/Steelers-Clark-defends-Woodley-s-commitment-to-team

Clark went on to defend Woodley in the interview, but the above quote is what I was interested in. What we're seeing right now is exactly what some of us were warning about a year ago when Ben first started sniping at Haley. I loved that Clark addressed two big issues: Leadership and keeping problems in-house instead of making them public.

Wallace108 wrote:

stlrtruck wrote:

discension amongst the players? Time to close ranks and fix this problem internally.

Isn't that a problem that arises from lack of leadership? You and Ginger preached a lot during last offseason about the lack of leadership, and I preached a lot about how Ben's attitude could possibly affect the entire team. I'm certainly not blaming Ben for Woodley being out of shape, but he most certainly set the tone for players airing their criticisms in public. We've seen nothing but bad leadership on this team since Farrior and Ward were let go. Someone needs to take charge. Now!

Unfortunately, Woodley was one of the guys we were expecting to step up and be a leader.

Very well could be. And the fact that Ben aired his grievances in the open forum of the sports media makes it worse. Last year Ben acted like a small child whining to whomever would listen. Now, more than ever, this team needs leadership. Ben needs to take over as the offensive leader before the Steelers find someone else to do it. Defensively, this team can belong to anyone but, IMO, a younger player needs to step up.

stlrtruck wrote:

Very well could be. And the fact that Ben aired his grievances in the open forum of the sports media makes it worse. Last year Ben acted like a small child whining to whomever would listen. Now, more than ever, this team needs leadership. Ben needs to take over as the offensive leader before the Steelers find someone else to do it. Defensively, this team can belong to anyone but, IMO, a younger player needs to step up.

Agreed. This team needs Ben to be a great leader now more than ever. It's his team, and he needs to lead the way. That's exactly why I was so critical of the things he was saying last offseason.

As usual, I find myself agreeing with Dave Bryan:

Quote :

Clark responded just as you would have expected that he would and I agree that things such as that should be kept behind closed doors. It indeed shows a void of unity and lack of leadership.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2013/02/ryan-clark-says-steelers-are-fractured-not-as-close-knit-as-he-thought/

cut them all and start new! just kidding

new leaders will come forward this is something that happens when you have change.

Don't hold your breath waiting to find out which Pittsburgh Steelers player said linebacker LaMarr Woodley was "awful" this season. In the place of truth,
you might have to settle for a healthy dollop of speculation.

Safety Ryan Clark said Monday on the "Dave Dameshek Football Program" that the anonymous source could be an upset member of the defense.
On Tuesday, veteran linebacker Larry Foote suggested the source came from somewhere else in the building.

Now PlayingNFL AudioLarry Foote jokes about anonymous prank on LaMarr Woodley
"Just doing some brainstorming, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the coaches put that out there and put that rumor out there. I don't see nobody
on the team saying that," Foote told KDKA-FM. "Maybe somebody did it to motivate him. I've seen the injuries he had. He had a hamstring,
you can blame that on conditioning or whatever, but he had an ankle injury when a guy fell on his ankle. So, he just got bad luck last year."

Foote's thought about the coaching staff might have been a bit tongue-in-cheek, but he was more serious when told of comments by Clark,
who said the story showed a fracture in the locker room.

"If a player did truly say that, yeah, that's something new," said Foote, a fourth-round choice of the Steelers in 2002. "Since I've been with the Steelers,
we don't play the stuff in the media. You look around the league you see teams taking shots at each other. We don't do that in Pittsburgh.

"That was the way it was before I got there, and I've just been following suit. I'd be very surprised if a guy really said that about Woodley.
Even if you did felt that way, you should never discuss that in the media. That's just breaking down, like you said, the foundation."


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Is Tomlin losing the team i wonder?


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000140469/article/larry-foote-woodley-rip-couldve-come-from-a-coach

I found this footage of Woodley at last year's training camp:





(It's actually Andre Smith from the scouting combine a few years ago)

I don't think Tomlin is losing the team, I believe that the team is just on the edge of their boundary. Many of the players on the team (young & old) are use to a more productive season, and finishing the season mediocre has the roster in an uproar.

I guess this is what teams like the browns and bungals feel like more often than not.

Quote :

Posted by Michael David Smith

Steelers receiver Antonio Brown says his third year with the team was a lot different than his first two.

Brown said on SportsCenter today that Pittsburgh’s locker room was fractured in the 2012 season, in a way he hadn’t seen previously since being drafted by the Steelers in 2010.

“It was definitely different — guys weren’t really together,” Brown said.

Brown said Steelers safety Troy Polamalu was among the veterans who spoke out and tried to explain to the team that selfish behavior wouldn’t be tolerated. But that talk was apparently not enough.

“That’s when you know you’ve got issues and you’ve got to come together as a team. Because the reality of a team game is everyone on the same page, committed to the same thing, dedicated for one goal, and that’s winning,” Brown said.

Although he didn’t name any names, Brown said he thought he had teammates last year who cared more about their individual goals than about the team’s record. And he described going 8-8 as “a bitter taste” that he hopes will motivate all of his teammates to act differently in 2013.

“Everyone in our locker room in 2013 has to understand the value of being in there and what our tradition and history stand for,” Brown said.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/20/antonio-brown-says-the-steelers-locker-room-was-divided-last-year/

So ... is the media still just making stuff up?

Nope, and apparently, at least for this year, where there is smoke there is most definitely a FIRE!

Proving once again that coaches need to reel in the drama queens, and leaders need now step up and squash this BS!

As I read comments from fans on other boards, many seem to think that Brown was referring to Wallace and/or Mendenhall. While that's possible, there's three quotes I remember from during the season that point in another direction and fits with what we're seeing play out right now:

Mike Wallace: "You don't have to like the people you work with. He doesn't have to like Ben; Ben doesn't have to like him. But we're all on the same team, so we have to work together."

Antonio Brown: "We wasted a lot of energy worrying about things that were out of our control, pointing a finger here, pointing a finger there. People mad here. People mad there. And as a team, collectively you can't have that.”

Jerome Bettis: "You know, it's clearly a problem. It's been a problem all year. They've been able to mask the problem, I think partly because of Ben's injury and other issues they've had to deal with. But it's always been there. ... I think as this year goes on, and as the losses start to mount, there's a frustration there that you're going to start to see more and more, so if they can kind of get through and get a couple more wins, I think it can die down, but I think you're going to start to see this, if they can't get to the playoffs, I think it's going to explode right here in the offseason."


Before last season even started, I was screaming from the mountaintop that Ben's attitude (or at least his lack of leadership) could affect the entire team. Here's what I said after he criticized Haley's play calling after the loss to the Cowboys:

Wallace108 wrote:

Someone brought up the fact that Noll and Bradshaw didn't exactly have a great relationship, and they won four Super Bowls together. I honestly don't care if Ben and Haley like each other. They can hate each others guts for all I care. But they have to work well together as a coach and leader of the offense. But here's what I see right now ... Despite all our talent, we're 7-7. Our record can't be placed solely at the feet of the offense, because we know the defense has its issues as well. But lets just focus on the offense. If you remember during the offseason, one of my fears was that Ben's attitude and refusal to fully buy into Haley's system could negatively affect the younger players. How can they buy into and trust the system and play at their highest level when the leader of the team isn't willing to buy into the system? And what have we seen this season? Wallace has regressed. Sanders has regressed. And even Brown has regressed. Is it because of poor leadership from Ben? Maybe, maybe not. But I provided evidence of how Bubby Brister's complaining about the offense had a negative effect on his teammates. It's quite possible that Ben's attitude and feelings toward Haley's offense has had a negative effect on his teammates as well.

I honestly think that Tomlin lost the team, there was a lot of things going on during the season that now we know of and he couldn't do anything to fix them

There are a lot of players on this team who have attitudes, and I agree Tomlin needs to get a grip on his team. This topic really ticked me off during the regular season, and I find myself getting ticked off about it again. Some of these guys are worse than a bunch of cacklin' women. STFU and play ball!

fer69, I love your sig line of "F@(k Wallace.. Throw it to Miller."

You may want to merge this with the LaMarr getting blasted by a teammate thread, which is fine. I'm not surprised and frankly, I don't believe things are going to magically turn around any time soon. And to think that I was blown off when I expressed my concern that the Steelers had terminated too many vets last season.



After an unnamed teammate blasted LaMarr Woodley in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, saying the linebacker was "awful" and out of shape, a popular motif explaining the fracture was that the Pittsburgh Steelers lost too many veteran leaders from the previous seasons.

One of those leaders -- Hines Ward, who retired after the Steelers decided not bring him back for the 2012 season -- told NFL Network's "NFL AM" on Friday morning that those quotes wouldn't have come out of the locker rooms he was part of.


"When you lose so much leadership in the locker room, that's when things present itself like that," Ward said. "Guys start finger-pointing, calling out other guys. That is not the Steeler way. We've always had a rule: We are a band of brothers. We've always collectively kept everything in house. ... But there was no finger-pointing and calling each other out. That's a total disarray, a locker room in disarray."

Ward's point is well stated. Safety Ryan Clark pointed out last week there were a lot of young players on the 2012 Steelers, which contributed to the lack of leadership and "fracture" in the locker room.

Losing also played a role in the "disarray" Ward mentioned. An 8-8 season was a disappointment for a team with Super Bowl aspirations. With a positive 2013 season on the field, the tone of the locker room is sure to change

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000143695/article/hines-ward-pittsburgh-steelers-are-in-total-disarray

Quote :

It was definitely different — guys weren’t really together,” Brown said.

Definitely. And it showed.

Quote :

You and Ginger preached a lot during last offseason about the lack of leadership, and I preached a lot about how Ben's attitude could possibly affect the entire team.

.

Thank you! I took some crap for that, too (not by you ) And we were right! Some of us on this board were also saying that the team looked flat and lacked chemistry, that it wasn't lack of talent that was losing the games. To borrow my favorite line from Remember the Titans "Attitude reflects leadership, Captain"


I am concerned because I don't know if this is an issue that can be rectified by the start of next season. Ben, Troy, SOMEONE needs to get this crew together and stop all of the BS now. If someone doesn't step up to the plate, I fear a season worse than this past one may be in the cards.

I still think we should have kept Ward for one more year. He said he would have played for vet minimum. We are already in cap hell, what was another 900,000 or so? Ward wanted one more year, and could have been instrumental in helping the team through the transitional time. OR we should have kept Farrior for another year. Yeah, maybe they weren't as productive as they used to be, but look what is happening. Oh well.........karma is a bitch.

I combined the three threads dealing with the locker room drama. Might as well keep it all in one place.

Quote :

A tricky situation in Steelers locker room

By Ed Bouchette / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Quarterback Bubby Brister surveyed the turmoil around him during one particularly bad Steelers season more than two decades ago and proclaimed, "I'm about to come unglued!" That statement might aptly fit what's going on with the Steelers today. Never has one anonymous comment by one player critiquing another prompted so much soul-searching, counterattacks and new revelations of the failed 2012 season that was the 8-8 Steelers.

Even general manager Kevin Colbert got into the act Thursday, both defending LaMarr Woodley after his worst NFL season and saying he was bothered by the fact that his accuser's comments were anonymous. Would the GM have preferred a player say the same thing and put his name behind it?

For the two or three of you who may have missed it, here is what the anonymous player told Ron Cook in his Sunday Post-Gazette column about Woodley's 2012 season:

"He was awful. He tells us he works out, but we didn't see it. He wasn't in shape. That has to be a reason why he was always hurt."

No player has countered the point made by Mr. Anonymous, just that it was said and said anonymously. The reaction has yielded two unintended consequences: Sympathy for Woodley on the occasion of his poor season -- one, Colbert said, that even Woodley would acknowledge he had -- and revelations that the Steelers players were seemingly at war with each other during the 2012 season.

What did Ryan Clark call it? Oh, yes, a "fracture" of the previously close-knit Steelers locker room. Larry Foote believes whoever said it broke a code, and then he suggested the comment could have come from a coach -- maybe one of those who bailed out for jobs at lesser organizations, such as Duke, UTEP and the Arizona Cardinals?

But it was Antonio Brown, voted the team's MVP in 2011, who really opened the window into the disharmony that was apparently prevalent on the 2012 Steelers.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/on-the-steelers-a-tricky-situation-in-steelers-locker-room-676642/#ixzz2LqLsxyEi

It's quite interesting that Bouchette started this article by mentioning Bubby Brister. If you remember my old arguments about the possibility of this team falling apart, you know what I'm referring to.

Quote :

It's quite interesting that Bouchette started this article by mentioning Bubby Brister. If you remember my old arguments about the possibility of this team falling apart, you know what I'm referring to.

I do, and you hit the nail on the head. Honestly, at least this forum can call an ace an ace. Too many Steeler fans had their heads in the sand this season, ignoring the obvious Ben/Haley issue.

This saddens me more than not making the playoffs. It seems that for so long now, even the few times we didn't make the playoffs the past 10 or so years, at least the team was a team. I also feel bad for Woodley. I know he was out of shape, and I'm sure he knows it to. I don't care how thick skinned someone is, it still has to hurt when a teammate goes to the press with this type of comment.

What interests me is the comment that states that some felt the "young money crew" was part of the problem and lack of strong hand coaching. At least when Ward was in the locker room, I know damn well he kept a heavy hand on them.

So Steeler Extreme, I ask you......what is to be done? Do you all think the Haley/BB issue will resolve? Do you seriously think Wallace was part of the problem? Do we release the rest of the vets and start from scratch and just deal with the fact that we aren't going to be competitive for a few future seasons?

And I hate to fuel speculation, but I have to ask........IF YOU HAD TO GUESS.....who would you point the finger to as the anonymous lark? I know it's just speculation, but I can't help but wonder.............Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if it was one of the coaches that left.

I just have to put my humble 2 cents into this discussion.

First, where is it written that the QB (i.e. Big Ben) needs to be the leader of the team. Really, he doesn't. He gets his instruction from the OC and carries out that instruction. Period. Much is written about the so-called leadership quality of any QB for any team, Bah! Humbug! The true team leader is someone the younger players not only respect, but also has "stature" and "voice". Sometimes that could be a father-figure/mentor and sometimes it's a seasoned, battle-scarred veteran commanding respect and admiration from the younger players. Can anyone spell Hines Ward.

The first line of leadership are the coaches. Everyone knows that Dick L OC commands a lot of respect, admiration and loyalty from his defensive team. I think it's safe to say that Dick L is leader extraordinaire. But as a head coach, Dick LeBeau sucked rotten tomatoes (much like Tomlin).

Now the punchline. Some people will already know that I'm not a Tomlin supporter. Notwithstanding Tomlin's catch-phrases and platitudes, I don't believe Tomlin can lead anybody. I believe each passing season, more of his weaknesses are emerging. but, now we also have Todd Haley. His leadership and management style seems to be the "bullying" kind. Anyone who has ever worked for an intimidating, bullying boss knows that it is counter-productive in the long run. Can anyone honestly say that Haley is a leader on the Steelers team. What if Dick LeBeau's style was intimidation and bullying.....do you think he would have lasted as long as he has.

It's no secret that Ben and Haley are on opposite poles of the team. Bullying Ben is not going to work. It's not Ben's fault if the Steelers lack a running game (that's on Tomlin's & Haley's head). It's not Ben's fault if the receivers don't get open. It certainly didn't take long for the opposing teams defenses to figure out and shutdown Haley's offensive schemes.

I don't blame any player for being "upset". In the modern NFL, players are graded on "statistics. Each player knows that their worth is based on these statistics. For example, a receiver with 3 1000+ yard seasons is expected to be paid more than a player who has 3 500 yard seasons. With the modern free-agency system, the difference is worth $mega-millions. A crap offense produces crap statistics and crap statistics ultimately lead to 1) a smaller paycheque and 2) a shorter NFL career. Either option is going to make any player very upset.....and who can blame them. I certainly don't.

Why do the fans believe that the Steelers are so special that to air out grievances in public is somehow sacrilege. I, for one, appreciate when the players "speak out". As a fan, I tend to believe the players voices much more so than the platitudes that spew from the mouths of coaches and GM. Really, it doesn't matter that problems are expressed in public. The problem will exist, expressed or not. The silent kind that is kept in the locker room, rotting and festering in the minds of the players is a lot more counter-productive than an open discussion that forces the Coach to openly solve the problems. Interestingly, problems are usually expressed publicly when they aren't addressed in a timely and productive manner internally. Read that as player frustration, if you want to. I read that as a Head Coach that is 1) out of sync with his players and 2) doesn't know how to fix the problems. As evidence, I point out that Colbert seems to be doing a lot of spin-doctoring lately. I don't see Tomlin manning up and saying "here's how we are going to solve the issues..1,2,3...". I don't think he'll even admit there are any issues and Colbert, just recently, publicly stated that there are no player dissatisfaction problems. Bahhhh! Humbug!

Just a few simple thoughts from an old-timer.

Quote :

Why do the fans believe that the Steelers are so special that to air out grievances in public is somehow sacrilege. I, for one, appreciate when the players "speak out".

I don't disagree with much of what you said. You're right, Ben doesn't have to be a leader. However, if you watched America's Game the 2008 Steelers, he spoke about becoming mature and a leader -- that he felt it was something he should do, and I quote "I have grown up and matured, and understand what comes with being a franchise quarterback". I believe that fans are upset because all of this was okay, until his friend was no longer his OC.

I think that fans are upset because the Steeler Organzation has long been recognized as the "model franchise". We have been called that by the owners of various NFL teams (including Steve what's-his-name of the Ravens), the New York Times, the Tampa Tribune. In part, the lack of media attention to what has gone on in our locker rooms has also been what has helped make the Steelers successful. It set the Steelers apart from all of the other organizations (i.e. the Jets). If you have ever been in a job, school, club, etc., where there is dissention, it feeds -- like electricity running inside a wire (this is also widely recognized in many studies). Think about it, it is much more pleasant to come to work and do a job when your bosses and/or coworkers get along professionally. I'm not saying that they have to be best friends, but back stabbing makes for a very, very unpleasant work environment. I'm not arguing your point, and I respect your opinion. I'm only addressing what has upset not only fans, but players as well. It's kind of like "what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas". What happens in the locker room or within the organization, should stay in the locker room.

And of course Colbert is not going to admit to problems. But it was obvious from the play in entire season (including many off-color remarks made by various players) that this team wasn't meshing.

As far as the coaches, I really like Mike Tomlin, but I think that he does need to become more of the "team coach" and less of a "players coach" His hand needs to become a little heavier, but that's just my humble opinion. However, there also needs to be a member of the team that not only fires up the players, but is respected and can maintain a level of professionalism among the players.

And yes, Hines more than likely kept the "young money crew" under control. Hines and Farrior were two of the most respected leaders on that team.

Quote :

Big Ben: Steelers locker room is perfectly fine

By Ed Bouchette / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Ben Roethlisberger said he has heard enough, and it's time to put an end to it. The perception created by a few of his teammates that the Steelers locker room was in disarray last season just is not true, the quarterback insisted, and someone needed to say it.

So why not the veteran quarterback, the captain of the offense?

"For anybody to say there are locker room issues or leadership issues are completely off base," Roethlisberger said Thursday, shortly after he signed a restructured contract to create $6 million of salary cap room for the Steelers in 2013.

"I believe that's the frustration. I believe that it's frustration of last year, I honestly do."

Over the past two weeks, several Steelers commented on one anonymous teammate's criticism of LaMarr Woodley by saying it showed a schism among them in 2012. Ryan Clark said there was a "fracture" in the locker room. Antonio Brown said: "It goes to show you that we wasn't a team in 2012." A few others chimed in with milder comments seemingly agreeing with Clark and Brown.

Enough is enough, Roethlisberger told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:

"Obviously, last year was frustrating for all of us, and when you're frustrated and the season doesn't go the way you want it to and things don't go the way you want them to, things are said. I know all too well, after the Dallas game I was frustrated and said some things.

"The important thing to know is, there are no issues in our locker room. There are no issues with LaMarr. There are no issues on our team.

READ MORE: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/big-ben-steelers-locker-room-is-perfectly-fine-677376/#ixzz2MGltxBIW

I really hope this is just Ben's way of trying to close the door to the public (a door that shouldn't have been opened to begin with). Surely he can't believe that there's no problems in the locker room.

What bothers me more about what Ben said is this:

Quote :

"We've got great leadership. We have plenty of older guys -- myself now, Ike Taylor, Larry Foote, Willie Colon, Brett Keisel, Casey Hampton -- we have a ton of guys.

"I want it to be known there is no locker room issue, there is no leadership issue.

Not only do most fans disagree, but so does Bret Keisel:

"When you lose some key guys like Aaron Smith, Hines Ward, James Farrior, these guys were amazing players and amazing leaders. And I feel like more people need to step up as leaders ..."

So, who is right ... Ben or Bret? I think we know the answer to that.