MVP

Are we witnessing Ben's MVP year?

Siss, I didn't know you were here. It would be great to see him win it. The only Steeler to win the reward was Terry back in 1978.

Ben is playing his best year by far if we can get rid of the injury bug then who knows what might happen.

This topic came up on our last podcast...Ben is definitely in the discussion at this point

I'd rather him be the MVP of #7

I wouldn't say that Ben is the MVP of the Steelers, much less the entire league. For my money, Ryan Clark is the Steelers MVP right now. He's had to adjust without Troy, and he's playing lights out. He's flying all over the field making plays while playing behind a first-year starter at corner in Lewis and alongside less-experienced safeties in Mundy and Allen. And you also have to factor in that our defense is getting little or no pressure on quarterbacks. But Clark is back there anchoring the secondary. Right now, I think Clark is more valuable than Troy.

But as far as Ben being the league MVP, I'd be surprised if it happened. There's no question he's having a fantastic season, arguably the best of his career. But I think there's still too much baggage when it comes to Big Ben. There's still too many people who either don't like him or don't view him as an elite quarterback. In order for Ben to win MVP, I think either the Steelers have to go undefeated, or Ben's stats have to be off the charts.

Every time we win a game, I ask myself a simple question.

Where would we be without Ben Roethlisberger?

Well, it's simple --- Ben is our most valuable player. Period. He always has been, and he will always be. When he's on the field, we'll always have a chance to win. He's won games without his biggest weapons, Antonio out yesterday, and Wallace dropping everything thrown to him in Cincinnati. He's overcome adversity and put games away, like any good QB should. Without him, we're the four time Super Bowl champion Pittsburgh Steelers, and THAT is the truth.

Ben is a GodSend. He's the reason for our success, and he's our teams most valuable player. Always has been, always will be.

"MVP: Most valuable player. A player deemed to be the most valuable and important part of a team. "

bayz101 wrote:

Could this be the year? No. I doubt Ben will ever be an NFL MVP, and that's fine. I think it's safe to say that without him playing QB for us, we wouldn't have been in a position to win yesterday, or really any game we've won this year. This team starts with Ben Roethlisberger, and with him, we always have a chance to win, and that alone makes him our most valuable player.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's an automatic loss without Ben in the game. The Steelers won when Batch started a game last season, and they're 5-2 with Batch at QB. The Steelers went 3-1 during Ben's suspension, and came really close to beating the Ravens to make it 4-0. While you wouldn't want to depend on Batch long-term, he's proved that he can win when he's in there. And Leftwich is more than just an average backup. He's quite capable of coming in and leading this team if Ben goes down.

Obviously, there's no question that Ben is one of the top QBs in the league and our odds of winning are greater if he's playing, but I can't agree that we wouldn't have been in a position to win any game this year without him. The track record of our backups proves otherwise.

Wallace108 wrote:

bayz101 wrote:

Could this be the year? No. I doubt Ben will ever be an NFL MVP, and that's fine. I think it's safe to say that without him playing QB for us, we wouldn't have been in a position to win yesterday, or really any game we've won this year. This team starts with Ben Roethlisberger, and with him, we always have a chance to win, and that alone makes him our most valuable player.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's an automatic loss without Ben in the game. The Steelers won when Batch started a game last season, and they're 5-2 with Batch at QB. The Steelers went 3-1 during Ben's suspension, and came really close to beating the Ravens to make it 4-0. While you wouldn't want to depend on Batch long-term, he's proved that he can win when he's in there. And Leftwich is more than just an average backup. He's quite capable of coming in and leading this team if Ben goes down.

Obviously, there's no question that Ben is one of the top QBs in the league and our odds of winning are greater if he's playing, but I can't agree that we wouldn't have been in a position to win any game this year without him. The track record of our backups proves otherwise.

I've since edited my post. For my money, Ben will always be the teams most valuable player. Always.

bayz101 wrote:

I've since edited my post. For my money, Ben will always be the teams most valuable player. Always.

The QB is almost always going to be regarded as the most valuable player on any team unless you have a total bum at QB. But look at our record without Ben compared to our record without Troy. Over the years, when we've played without Ben, our offense still scores and we still win. When Troy was in his prime, our defense absolutely sucked when he didn't play. I don't know the exact record right now, but at one point, we were 7-9 when Troy didn't play. It was a completely different defense when he didn't play, and the 7-9 record shows it. But we're 5-2 when Batch has played in place of Ben. Am I saying that Batch is as good as Ben? Absolutely not. But regardless of feelings or opinions, history shows that in his prime, Troy was more valuable to the team's success than Ben.

Wallace108 wrote:

bayz101 wrote:

I've since edited my post. For my money, Ben will always be the teams most valuable player. Always.

The QB is almost always going to be regarded as the most valuable player on any team unless you have a total bum at QB. But look at our record without Ben compared to our record without Troy. Over the years, when we've played without Ben, our offense still scores and we still win. When Troy was in his prime, our defense absolutely sucked when he didn't play. I don't know the exact record right now, but at one point, we were 7-9 when Troy didn't play. It was a completely different defense when he didn't play, and the 7-9 record shows it. But we're 5-2 when Batch has played in place of Ben. Am I saying that Batch is as good as Ben? Absolutely not. But regardless of feelings or opinions, history shows that in his prime, Troy was more valuable to the team's success than Ben.

I see you chose Clark as the MVP. Clark is an important piece of the puzzle, and he is the leader of our defense, but let me spot you this question.

Do you believe that if Clark goes down, our season is in jeopardy?

I don't. I believe that we'll always be a threat with Ben at QB, and that's why he's the teams MVP in the end. When Clark went down a week ago, everyone was nervous. But the defense DID do fine in his absence, and Ben did his part on offense, and we won the game. When Ben went down with an ankle injury in Cleveland, the city of Pittsburgh was devastated, and the season was lost in the eyes of many. That's because, without him, it's over. Charlie has always been a great backup, but Ben's season has never been over in his relief. He's always came back to play. I'm not so sure that Charlie, even being the great QB he is, would perform the same knowing that Ben wouldn't be coming back to take over.

We'll never see this happen, but it's how I honestly feel. Ryan Clark is my favorite player behind Hines Ward, and he's been my favorite player since he's been here. I have his jersey and I have his Fat Head on my wall, but make no mistake, as long as Ben is on this team, he'll always be our most valuable player. That's how I feel, that's how i'll always feel.

I'd have to agree that Ben (at least for now) is the team's MVP, but one could make a very good argument for Troy Polamalu.

While our defense has come in to their own the last 3 games, it is apparent that there is still a lot of pressure on Ike and Clark to make plays bigger than themselves. Without Troy on the field, it adds that pressure. With Troy on the field, the pressure is slightly alleviated because Troy's play elevates the responsibility of the opposing players, making it difficult for those over the top plays.

stlrtruck wrote:

I'd have to agree that Ben (at least for now) is the team's MVP, but one could make a very good argument for Troy Polamalu.

While our defense has come in to their own the last 3 games, it is apparent that there is still a lot of pressure on Ike and Clark to make plays bigger than themselves. Without Troy on the field, it adds that pressure. With Troy on the field, the pressure is slightly alleviated because Troy's play elevates the responsibility of the opposing players, making it difficult for those over the top plays.

Exactly. I believe you can miss an entire season, and if you're team struggles when it would otherwise flourish with you in, you can make a case that YOU are your teams most valuable player. It is after all "Most Valuable" and not "Best performer".

If Ben went down in the next game, I'd have complete confidence in Lefty to get the job done. On the other hand, if Clark goes down, I don't even want to think what our secondary would look like with Allen and Mundy back there.

The main reason why I say our MVP is Clark and not Ben is because our secondary has been built around Troy and the way he plays. That's why our secondary has always sucked when he's not playing. That's why up until this year, we had a losing record when he doesn't play. History says that our secondary should be getting absolutely torched right now. But it's not. Despite a few bad drives and a few bad plays from Ike, the secondary is playing well without Troy ... better than it ever did without him, in fact. And that's because of Clark.

If Ben goes down, Lefty can lead the offense, score points, and help this team win. If you take Clark out of the secondary right now, our defense gets torched, especially when we're not getting any pass rush and QBs have all day to find an open receiver.

We lost the Denver game in overtime last season not because of Ike Taylor but because Ryan Clark wasn't playing. Ike was where he was supposed to be and was expecting inside safety help. Mundy was out of position and was late getting back. That catch and run doesn't happen with Clark in the game.

stlrtruck wrote:

I'd have to agree that Ben (at least for now) is the team's MVP, but one could make a very good argument for Troy Polamalu.

While our defense has come in to their own the last 3 games, it is apparent that there is still a lot of pressure on Ike and Clark to make plays bigger than themselves. Without Troy on the field, it adds that pressure. With Troy on the field, the pressure is slightly alleviated because Troy's play elevates the responsibility of the opposing players, making it difficult for those over the top plays.

Interesting thought considering Troy hasn't played. While it's true that the defense is different without him, I'm beginning to think the D is evolving into something better. I see less soft zone coverage, more of the CB playing up on the receiver which is actually producing better coverage. That shows in both Ike and Lewis who I think are both playing way better. Does that mean that Troy, by his absence, has become the MVP? Nah. Still have to go with Ben. QB is where it all starts.

exncite wrote:

Interesting thought considering Troy hasn't played. While it's true that the defense is different without him, I'm beginning to think the D is evolving into something better. I see less soft zone coverage, more of the CB playing up on the receiver which is actually producing better coverage. That shows in both Ike and Lewis who I think are both playing way better. Does that mean that Troy, by his absence, has become the MVP? Nah. Still have to go with Ben. QB is where it all starts.

I'm glad you brought that up, because I've been thinking this lately ... right now, I think our secondary is better without Troy in the game (I can't believe I just typed that).

Our secondary has always been built around Troy, and when he's not there, we've had to completely change the way we play defense. But that's not the case anymore. And Clark is playing lights out. He's easily the best player on our defense right now.

I think a GOOD QB, much less a GREAT QB, will always be a teams most valuable player. He MUST be. I don't like the term "MVP" because if your team has a competent guy at Center, he's likely your Most Valuable Player. I'm not talking about a teams best performer, i'm talking about a teams Most VALUABLE player. You can say that Clark's absence contributed to our loss in Denver, but I can say that Ben led the team to overtime on his strengths alone, hobbled and all, and almost pulled off a miracle finish.

I love Clark. He's a hard-hitter. He's the very definition of a football player, but quite honestly, if we we're giving defensive and offensive most valuable player awards, i'd give one to Foote and one to Ben. Clark would be the most consistent player, and Keenan Lewis would be the most improved player.

EDIT: I take that back. I can't give it to Foote, it has to be Clark.

bayz101 wrote:

I think a GOOD QB, much less a GREAT QB, will always be a teams most valuable player. He MUST be. I don't like the term "MVP" because if your team has a competent guy at Center, he's likely your Most Valuable Player. I'm not talking about a teams best performer, i'm talking about a teams Most VALUABLE player. You can say that Clark's absence contributed to our loss in Denver, but I can say that Ben led the team to overtime on his strengths alone, hobbled and all, and almost pulled off a miracle finish.

I love Clark. He's a hard-hitter. He's the very definition of a football player, but quite honestly, if we we're giving defensive and offensive most valuable player awards, i'd give one to Foote and one to Ben. Clark would be the most consistent player, and Keenan Lewis would be the most improved player.

EDIT: I take that back. I can't give it to Foote, it has to be Clark.

Over the years, how many games have we won because of our defense? And how many have we won because of our offense? Last season alone, we won two games against the Browns and one against the Chiefs with these scores: 13-9, 10-3, and 13-9. Those are three wins we got because of the defense, not the offense. More times than not, when the Steelers win, it's because of the defense, not the offense. And when the Steelers lose, more times than not, it's because the defense craps the bed. We've shown over and over than we can win when the offense struggles. But when the defense struggles, there's a greater chance of us losing.

If our defense plays lights out, I'm confident we can win regardless of who's playing quarterback for us. Charlie Batch, who is far from a great QB, is 5-2 as a starter for us. But if the defense is struggling, I'm not confident that Ben and the offense will win the game. Look at what happened against the Raiders and Titans. The defense struggled in the fourth quarter of both those games. The offense had a chance to win both times and failed. It's been that way for as long as I can remember. Our success isn't determined by our offense. Our success is determined by our defense. That was true in the past, and it's true now. We can win when the offense struggles. But we rarely win when the defense struggles. That's why I say our Most Valuable Player has to be the best player on our defense. That also explains why both Troy and Harrison have been named NFL defensive players of the year.

Ben's entire career has been hampered by the genius offensive coordinator of the past, and I think we could all agree with that. Right now, at this point in time, if the defense struggles, I think Ben STILL gets the job done. I think a lot of our losses this year are on the defenses shoulders, but I also believe we we're off to a slow start. We're warming up, and I think we'll be hot as a pistol going into the playoffs. Keep in mind this isn't a "Half-Way MVP" thread.

The question is: Is this the year Ben finally gets MVP recognition? My answer: He's always been the team MVP, and he always will be. NFL MVP? If we go to the playoffs, and he keeps up the good work, sure. I don't see him see him ever winning the NFL MVP award, and I could honestly care less, but i'm not saying it isn't possible.

So that's my answer. Can Ben earn an MVP award from the NFL? Sure. I don't see it happening, but it's certainly possible.

As I mentioned before (and now I'm just post count whoring it up), I'd rather he be #7 MVP instad of team and/or league MVP.

stlrtruck wrote:

As I mentioned before (and now I'm just post count whoring it up), I'd rather he be #7 MVP instad of team and/or league MVP.

League MVP doesn't mean shit. Pretty sure an NFL MVP award-winner hasn't won a Super Bowl in the same year, in what, 9 years? Maybe more? No. It doesn't mean shit. I do believe Ben is the most valuable player on our team. No way in hell will I think differently abut that, but honestly, Super Bowl MVP doesn't matter to me either. All that matters to me is that we GET #7. Give MVP to Limas Sweed for all I care. If we win another Lombardi, i'm sure the last thing our guys will be thinking about is who won the MVP. It's all about the rings, buddy!

GO STEELERS!

EDIT: I'd like to say that Ben is the '08 Super Bowl MVP. Santonio can say what he wants, but Ben made him look a lot better than he is, and I said that to my father in the playoffs leading up to the '08 Super Bowl. Look at him with Sanchez.

bayz101 wrote:

Ben's entire career has been hampered by the genius offensive coordinator of the past, and I think we could all agree with that. Right now, at this point in time, if the defense struggles, I think Ben STILL gets the job done. I think a lot of our losses this year are on the defenses shoulders, but I also believe we we're off to a slow start. We're warming up, and I think we'll be hot as a pistol going into the playoffs. Keep in mind this isn't a "Half-Way MVP" thread.

The question is: Is this the year Ben finally gets MVP recognition? My answer: He's always been the team MVP, and he always will be. NFL MVP? If we go to the playoffs, and he keeps up the good work, sure. I don't see him see him ever winning the NFL MVP award, and I could honestly care less, but i'm not saying it isn't possible.

So that's my answer. Can Ben earn an MVP award from the NFL? Sure. I don't see it happening, but it's certainly possible.

I know I sound like a broken record and keep going back to this argument, but it keeps being relevant ...

Last year there were 8 games when the offense had the lead and the ball with about 5 minutes left in the fourth quarter. All 8 times Ben and the offense gave the ball back to the opposing team with a chance to win the game. The defense made the stop in 7 of those 8 games. In those 8 games, the offense had a chance to win the game and failed. The defense won 7 of those 8 games. We can blame Arians if we want (and you know I love to blame Arians), but we've seen the same thing this season as well. In the fourth quarter against the Raiders and Titans, Ben and the offense had a chance to win the games in the fourth quarter but failed. But no one says we lost those games because the offense failed. Almost everyone (myself included) says we lost the game because of our defense. Go back to the first game against the Broncos ... we might have had a chance to win if Ben doesn't throw the interception. But no one says we lost the game because of Ben. Everyone says we lost the game because the defense couldn't stop Manning. And that's correct. Whether we win or lose isn't determined by Ben. Whether we win or lose is determined by our defense.

Put all emotions aside and let me give you two scenarios:

Scenario 1: Ben is playing lights out, but the defense is struggling.
Scenario 2: Ben is struggling, but the defense is playing lights out.

Which of those two scenarios gives us a greater chance of winning?

Now compare that to a team like the Patriots***, Saints, or Broncos. Brady, Brees, and Manning are clearly the most valuable players on those teams. If Brady plays like crap, the Patriots*** lose. If Brees plays like crap, the Saints lose. If Manning plays like crap, the Broncos lose. But if Ben plays like crap, there's still a good chance the Steelers win. We've won tons of games when the offense has struggled.

So if the Steelers' success is determined by how well the defense plays, and not the offense, I don't understand how Ben is the most valuable player.

Wallace108 wrote:

bayz101 wrote:

Ben's entire career has been hampered by the genius offensive coordinator of the past, and I think we could all agree with that. Right now, at this point in time, if the defense struggles, I think Ben STILL gets the job done. I think a lot of our losses this year are on the defenses shoulders, but I also believe we we're off to a slow start. We're warming up, and I think we'll be hot as a pistol going into the playoffs. Keep in mind this isn't a "Half-Way MVP" thread.

The question is: Is this the year Ben finally gets MVP recognition? My answer: He's always been the team MVP, and he always will be. NFL MVP? If we go to the playoffs, and he keeps up the good work, sure. I don't see him see him ever winning the NFL MVP award, and I could honestly care less, but i'm not saying it isn't possible.

So that's my answer. Can Ben earn an MVP award from the NFL? Sure. I don't see it happening, but it's certainly possible.

I know I sound like a broken record and keep going back to this argument, but it keeps being relevant ...

Last year there were 8 games when the offense had the lead and the ball with about 5 minutes left in the fourth quarter. All 8 times Ben and the offense gave the ball back to the opposing team with a chance to win the game. The defense made the stop in 7 of those 8 games. In those 8 games, the offense had a chance to win the game and failed. The defense won 7 of those 8 games. We can blame Arians if we want (and you know I love to blame Arians), but we've seen the same thing this season as well. In the fourth quarter against the Raiders and Titans, Ben and the offense had a chance to win the games but failed. But no one says we lost those games because the offense failed. Almost everyone (myself included) says we lost the game because of our defense. Go back to the first game against the Broncos ... we might have had a chance to win if Ben doesn't throw the interception. But one says we lost the game because of Ben. Everyone says we lost the game because the defense couldn't stop Manning. And that's correct. Whether we win or lose isn't determined by Ben. Whether we win or lose is determined by our defense.

Put all emotions aside and let me give you two scenarios:

Scenario 1: Ben is playing lights out, but the defense is struggling.
Scenario 2: Ben is struggling, but the defense is playing lights out.

Which of those two scenarios gives us a greater chance of winning?

Now compare that to a team like the Patriots**, Saints, or Broncos. Brady, Brees, and Manning are clearly the most valuable players on those teams. If Brady plays like crap, the Patriots** lose. If Brees plays like crap, the Saints lose. If Manning plays like crap, the Broncos lose. But if Ben plays like crap, there's still a good chance the Steelers win. We've won tons of games when the offense has struggled.

So if the Steelers' success is determined by how well the defense plays, and not the offense, I don't understand how Ben is the most valuable player.

Scenario one. Our defense hasn't produced enough turnovers in two years for me to believe that Scenario two would prove successful, and I do believe Ben is in his prime right now, and capable of carrying this entire team, all on his own if need be. Obviously it won't get us far, because we DO need a competent defense to win championships, but I believe Ben could get the job done, and if injuries keep up, he may HAVE to.

Ben's going to be as clutch this year as he's EVER been in his entire career. Mark my words, he'll be the Most Valuable Player in the eyes of EVERY Steelers fan in the end.

21 of 30 for 216 yards, 2 TDs and 1 INT

That's against a defense that makes golden boy Brady look like a Canadian football backup annually.