Revisiting Marvel Smith's comments from 2010

About midway through the season, we had a discussion about who should be the team MVP at that point. The consensus was Ben. I disagreed with the consensus. I believed that we were winning games because of the defense, not because of Ben and the offense, and that the best player on defense was deserving of MVP.

One thing that has been consistent about our offense is that it doesn't win many games. Sure, our offense often outscores the opposing offense, but that's not the same as "winning" games. That's a credit to the defense. Put another way ... if we win 10-3, you can hardly credit the offense with winning the game. We saw this play out many times last season. As I've recounted more than a few times, there were eight games last season when our offense had the ball and the lead with about 5 minutes left, and had a chance to win the game by putting it out of reach with a score or running out the clock. In all eight games, the offense failed to do either and put the defense in the position of having to win the games. The defense was successful in seven of those eight games. And if we look at this season, how many games can we say that the offense won? But there were at least four games this season that the offense lost, all on late interceptions by Ben.

That brings back some comments made in 2010 by former lineman Marvel Smith regarding Ben, the offense, and the change in head coach (from Cowher to Tomlin) and offensive coordinator (from Whiz to Arians):

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"I remember me and Ben talking about the differences between the coaching staffs — how he wasn't allowed to do certain things with the other coaching staff that he was allowed to do now," Smith said. "He kind of felt like he was treated as a rookie even in his second and third year in the league."

"We all have bad games here and there, but I remember when Ben would have a bad game that clearly affected the outcome and the coaches wouldn't say nothing to him directly or even address the fact he might have had three or four (interceptions) that game," Smith said.

"They would address the other bad (stuff) that happened but not address the glaring issue of throwing a pick in a drive. ... We'd talk about turnovers, and (coaches) said we had this amount of turnovers, but they don't address it like: 'Have better ball security, (or) read the safety instead of throwing it straight to him when he's double-covered.'

"When you do that in front of the whole team, that sends a message he's on a different level. It creates a division within the team. You can't sit there in front of the whole team and not say something to one player that clearly had a bigger impact than anybody else on that game and not even address it."

"It wasn't like that with Coach Cowher and Whisenhunt," Smith said. "We addressed all the issues a number of times throughout the season.

"Ben wasn't the one that was making us win. It was a team effort. We wouldn't have made it to (Super Bowl XLIII) if it wasn't for the defense. The defense won so many games for us that year. We put the defense in so many bad situations. The offense made that last play that everybody remembers, but the defense got us there.

"The defense always wanted us to run the ball because they know it kept them off the field. I'm sure the last two years I was there, when they went through the transition of passing the ball more, the defense didn't like that by any means."

http://triblive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_677603.html#axzz2GBABtXw8

I find this comment interesting:

"Ben wasn't the one that was making us win. It was a team effort. We wouldn't have made it to (Super Bowl XLIII) if it wasn't for the defense. The defense won so many games for us that year. We put the defense in so many bad situations."

Even with a new offensive coordinator, the more things change, the more they remain the same.

At the half way mark, I had no problem with Ben being named team MVP, but as the season progressed, specifically after his injury, it appeared that he is not ready to handle that accolade.

The team MVP should certainly go to a defensive player. Clark, Taylor, Keisel, Timmons?

Hell maybe this year there shouldn't be a team MVP.

Thanks Wally!

That's why I don't think Tomlin is the leader this team needs right now
He treats players differently he'll bench the nobodies (mendenhall wasn't having a good year)
But he won't say anything to the guys making the big mistakes (Ben, Wallace, Brown just to name a few) I like Tomlin but he needs to stop being everybody's friend.
Be the leader this team needs

Whoa, pretty strong feelings coming from Marvel (I always liked this guy).

I don't know what to think about BB anymore. Frankly, I didn't like him until this year. I believed that he had really matured.

So Haley and BB didn't gel at all. But what do you do now? We can easily sit back and blame Ben and call him immature, spoiled, and everything else, but maybe Haley is a true ass? This is one reason I don't think things are going to get magically better this offseason unless Rooney does something drastic.

The more I read, the more I believe that this team was divided and that there was a lot of dissension. So no matter how much talent, it wasn't enough to overcome "internal" problems. Seriously, you could have all of the talent in the world, but if they don't mesh as a united team, they won't win. I remember Chuck Noll's HOF induction speech. He stated that the Steelers of the 70s epitomized team work. Did anyone else get the feeling that they weren't a "team" this year? That there was some selfish football being played? I sure did.

Either way, Miller should get MVP.

stlrtruck wrote:

Hell maybe this year there shouldn't be a team MVP.

Good point. I wouldn't have a problem with one of the guys on D getting it though. No one on the other side of the ball deserves it. But yeah, this would be a good year to not even have one.

fer69 wrote:

Thanks Wally!

That's why I don't think Tomlin is the leader this team needs right now
He treats players differently he'll bench the nobodies (mendenhall wasn't having a good year)
But he won't say anything to the guys making the big mistakes (Ben, Wallace, Brown just to name a few) I like Tomlin but he needs to stop being everybody's friend.
Be the leader this team needs

I don't disagree with that assessment of Tomlin. He definitely treats players differently. To some degree, you have to as a coach. You're not going to treat the kicker the same way you treat the franchise quarterback. But there has to be certain universal standards. As Tomlin loves to say ... the standard is the standard.

But I'm not too concerned about Tomlin. Every coach is going to have some bad years. And this was certainly a bad year for Tomlin. I'm more concerned about Ben and the offense. It wasn't just a bad year or a bad second half. What we're seeing there is a pattern that goes back more than a few years. Minus a few games, everything that Smith said still applies, even with Arians gone.

Gingerchip wrote:

Whoa, pretty strong feelings coming from Marvel (I always liked this guy).

I don't know what to think about BB anymore. Frankly, I didn't like him until this year. I believed that he had really matured.

So Haley and BB didn't gel at all. But what do you do now? We can easily sit back and blame Ben and call him immature, spoiled, and everything else, but maybe Haley is a true ass? This is one reason I don't think things are going to get magically better this offseason unless Rooney does something drastic.

The more I read, the more I believe that this team was divided and that there was a lot of dissension. So no matter how much talent, it wasn't enough to overcome "internal" problems. Seriously, you could have all of the talent in the world, but if they don't mesh as a united team, they won't win. I remember Chuck Noll's HOF induction speech. He stated that the Steelers of the 70s epitomized team work. Did anyone else get the feeling that they weren't a "team" this year? That there was some selfish football being played? I sure did.

Either way, Miller should get MVP.

Oops, I forgot about Miller. I wouldn't mind if he was chosen MVP.

I think it's time to remove the Black and Gold glasses and take an honest look at Ben. Much like we see with other players, he seems to be getting by more on reputation than actual performance. Four or five years ago, his reputation was that he was the comeback king. Opposing teams feared Ben having the ball and a final chance to win the game. But in the last 3 years, how many games has that actually happened? You have to go back to the Super Bowl against the Cardinals, I believe. Since then, just about every time he's had a chance to win the game, he's blown it. He blew it four times this year alone.

And I think there's a lot of truth to the idea of team dissension. We know it existed before. It played out publicly between Ben and Hines. The Steelers are one of the best teams at keeping problems in-house. So unless a player says something later, there's no way of knowing what was going on behind the scenes this year. But I still believe that Ben's attitude toward Haley and his unwillingness to fully support his system played a factor.

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Oops, I forgot about Miller. I wouldn't mind if he was chosen MVP

Ouch! Almost unforgiveable that you forgot about Heath, the classiest "rock" the team has. Without him or Suisham, we probably would have lost every game.

I removed my black and gold glasses about midway through this season.

So honestly, Wally, what would you do if you were Rooney? Get rid of BB? Fire Haley? Kick some "young money" ass? Hire Tebow? Do you think BB is really done, so to speak, or do you think maybe he is a spoiled child. He performed well under Arians, if I recall.

I hate to say it, but I could kick Cowher's ass from passing on Drew Brees way back when.

Gingerchip wrote:

Quote :

Oops, I forgot about Miller. I wouldn't mind if he was chosen MVP

Ouch! Almost unforgiveable that you forgot about Heath, the classiest "rock" the team has. Without him or Suisham, we probably would have lost every game.

I removed my black and gold glasses about midway through this season.

So honestly, Wally, what would you do if you were Rooney? Get rid of BB? Fire Haley? Kick some "young money" ass? Hire Tebow? Do you think BB is really done, so to speak, or do you think maybe he is a spoiled child. He performed well under Arians, if I recall.

I hate to say it, but I could kick Cowher's ass from passing on Drew Brees way back when.

First BB needs to have a good swift old Irish foot against his arse.
Second, do NOT fire Haley. I don't believe Haley is the overall problem. Matter of fact, I don't think he's part of the problem at all (except maybe the play calling there towards the end of the season).
Third, take the other old Irish foot and put it against the 'young money' arse
Fourth, do not take Tebow either. Although is mentality could be the injection this team needs
Fifth, Ben is a spoiled child (at times), and I believe it's time that Tomlin, Haley, and Rooney take the kid's gloves off and hit Ben with a dose of reality and truth.

As fans we've always said that no one player is irreplaceable. Hell the FO has proven that time and time again. Ben has been in the league 8 years, and for a beat up QB he's still damn good, but he's got to learn when to control emotions, and how to control a game - especially the games the Steelers play. With that being said, Ben is not irreplaceable.

And I wouldn't have taken Brees back then either. Although I think we could have won with him, I think our offensive line would have gotten him killed.

Gingerchip wrote:

Quote :

Oops, I forgot about Miller. I wouldn't mind if he was chosen MVP

Ouch! Almost unforgiveable that you forgot about Heath, the classiest "rock" the team has. Without him or Suisham, we probably would have lost every game.

I removed my black and gold glasses about midway through this season.

So honestly, Wally, what would you do if you were Rooney? Get rid of BB? Fire Haley? Kick some "young money" ass? Hire Tebow? Do you think BB is really done, so to speak, or do you think maybe he is a spoiled child. He performed well under Arians, if I recall.

I hate to say it, but I could kick Cowher's ass from passing on Drew Brees way back when.

I plan on writing a commentary (or at least a separate post) about the direction I think the team should take in regard to Ben, so I won't get into that right now.

As for the receivers, I think Wallace will be gone, so that will work itself out. Brown and Sanders regressed this season, but I think that was because of the lack of leadership and focus of the entire team. Part of that falls on Ben, and part of it falls on Tomlin.

When did Cowher pass on Drew Brees?

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And I wouldn't have taken Brees back then either. Although I think we could have won with him, I think our offensive line would have gotten him killed

Oh yeah......forgot about that small detail

I realize this isn't the place nor the thread......so kick my butt if you must.....but I MISS WARD I realize now that it was his time to go (and I am thankful he didn't have to suffer through this demeaning season), but what I miss most is his love and passion for the game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't ever recall Hines "giving up". He played every single game like a bull in a china shop. This is missing from our receivers. I really do like our WR corps, and honestly nothing against Wallace (I actually ended up liking the guy and still think if he walks, we will be sorry down the road). Having said that, they all need attitude adjustments (well maybe not Sanders or Cotchery). Brown, and I do love the guy, needs to grow up and quite acting like he has won a superbowl every time he gets a TD. BB, as truck said, needs to be bitch slapped and given one more season to produce, or be gone. Tomlin needs to jump in their faces, Woodley needs to lose his gut and get in better shape, special teams.....well....some things can never be fixed. Haley, I don't know enough about him to give an opinion.

Something has to change, though.

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When did Cowher pass on Drew Brees?

My bad as this is just something I had heard before (I'll see if I can locate facts, damn, I'm as bad as the media ) I also heard that Noll passed on Marino. If either of these statements are true, they both need their butts kicked.

And, besides, wasn't Haley's run run run offense no better than Arians bubble screens? OR, is it perhaps because Rooney wanted to return to a run oriented team (could this have been another trigger to piss off our QB)?

I still think we should draft a QB very soon. If not this year, than next for sure. BB isn't getting any younger, he is pretty banged up, our back ups are on the downside (nothing against Charlie, he plays his heart out and I love him, but he isn't getting any younger either).

I have fantasy's of drafting a Rogers-Brady-Brees type of QB that can be groomed by the Steelers and readied for the future.

I figure there's always a lot of overreaction in regards to the team and it's players when we have a bad season. When we lose, Steelers fans go into panic mode. I believe we're a pretty spoiled group of fans, and quite honestly, there's nothing wrong with that! We win Super Bowls.

It's a team effort. There's playmakers on both sides of the ball, and they showed up (Antonio Brown and Cortez to name a couple), but it's a team effort. I'm not disappointed with any single player, and unlike many Steelers fans, i'll be tuning in this Sunday.

Bayz, I hope you are right, but I disagree with you on this.

I think there are more problems than we as fans are led to believe. Yes, we are spoiled, and yes, we may (hope to God not), but may have to face another 80s -90s decade of coming up short. I can live with that......as a matter of fact I did live with that. However, that long dry spell we had during that timeframe was also, I believe, due to lack of talent. We had sprinklings of talent here and there, no doubt. And maybe here is where my black and gold glasses are still on......but with the talent on this team (and I'm not saying they were superbowl contenders), the season should have at least led us to the playoffs.

I am really leaning with Wally on this. James Harrison said it, Clark has implied it, and Wallace has to. This team wasn't a "Team" this year -- and there are underlying reasons for that.

bayz101 wrote:

I figure there's always a lot of overreaction in regards to the team and it's players when we have a bad season. When we lose, Steelers fans go into panic mode. I believe we're a pretty spoiled group of fans

You're right, Bayz. Steelers fans are spoiled. But the spoiled attitude doesn't show up in the form of overreacting to a bad team or adversity. If that was the case, you'd have to say that Browns fans are the most spoiled fans in the NFL.

No, being spoiled shows up in the belief that the Steelers will always be a playoff-caliber team ... the belief that, yes, there will occasionally be a bad year, like this year, but we'll always bounce back the following year ... the belief that there's never any serious problems with the Steelers, that everything we hear that's negative is made up by the media, or if it is true, that it's easily fixable ... the belief that the Steelers aren't capable of enduring a downward cycle and going through a decade or so of mediocrity (or worse). A lot of Steelers fans are spoiled into believing that the Steelers will always be one of the top teams, and that any setback is just temporary.

Those of us who were fans before the 70s or who lived through all the mediocrity of the 80s should know better.

Being a QB is a tough position because you touch the ball almost 100% of the offensive plays. We don't know what Ben sees but I know his job would be easier if the receivers were more open and the line blocked better. Opposing quarterbacks seemed to have an eternity.

Chemistry goes farther than talent. We lacked chemistry this year.