A Big Issue With Tomlin's Steelers...

Been studying the Steelers for a LONG time. This is my #1 issue missing from this current team:

No coach can do it alone. Not even Noll could.

We had leaders on the defense who were "mean", and very vocal, in both the Steel Curtain (Joe Greene) and Blitzburgh (Joey Porter) days. Hines Ward (a leader) was there for both #5 and 6 SB's. The team NEVER won a SB without at least one of those types of personalities on the team, and never will.

Tomlin stated recently this year, "he (as a coach) does't spend time motivating". When I read that quote, it helped confirm my observations.

Currently, lots of "finesse" and talent, but no "true leaders" that will make the guys go the extra mile -esp in crunch time, game after game. Hence, no playoff wins since 2011, one and done last yr basically against the Ravens 2nd string, and still struggling to make the playoffs and losing games the team should win in 2015. No "vocal" leadership. Somethings just not right (based on my many yrs of observation)... Not really Steelers football, I think these guys are way too passive.

Cameron Heyward and Stephon Tuitt are emerging as tone setters on the D......but I agree there has been a void in leadership since Aaron Smith and Hines left....which is why we see them losing to the likes of the jets,bucs, and saints last year, for example.

I also think losing Bell hurt a lot too on the Offensive side.....Everybody seemed to get that extra level of amped up...when he'd start working his magic on the defense and churn out 1st downs.

I couldn't disagree with this more. Ben Roethlisberger has stepped up into a leadership role for this team. He's publicly hard on himself when we lose games and takes blame even when things might not necessarily of been his fault. He motivates his teammates. If you watch these games he praises these guys when they do well, and he rides them when they need some motivation to step up their game. Just look at the Seahawks game. I honestly forget what it was that Martavis Bryant did wrong, I think he dropped a pass, but Roethlisberger grabbed him on the sidelines when he tried to turn away, and gave him a good talking to. That's what leaders do, they don't back down, and they ask their teammates to give them their best. Heath Miller is another guy that leads, not always vocally but by example. I believe it was Heath that told AB to cool his jets during that whole snafu with Mike Vick not being able to get him the ball, and AB complaining about not getting enough targets.

The defense is no different. Cameron Heyward, Stephon Tuitt, and James Harrison are the leaders on the defensive side of the ball. They take losses to heart, and they give their all on the field, but this being professional football sometimes giving your all doesn't always translate into wins. If you made the argument a few years ago that there weren't real leaders on this team, I'd understand it a little more, but we definitely have guys on this team that are leaders.

Leadership isn't the issue here, it's execution. The players need to clean up their mistakes, and the defensive secondary in particular needs to step up their play. These guys know that. There is no void of leadership. We have plenty of veteran players on this team, some younger like Heyward, and Tuitt. And some older like Roethlisberger, Miller, and Harrison. We also have Joey Porter on the sidelines that's a proven player, and a leader as well.

IowaSteeler927 wrote:

I couldn't disagree with this more. Ben Roethlisberger has stepped up into a leadership role for this team. He's publicly hard on himself when we lose games and takes blame even when things might not necessarily of been his fault. He motivates his teammates. If you watch these games he praises these guys when they do well, and he rides them when they need some motivation to step up their game. Just look at the Seahawks game. I honestly forget what it was that Martavis Bryant did wrong, I think he dropped a pass, but Roethlisberger grabbed him on the sidelines when he tried to turn away, and gave him a good talking to. That's what leaders do, they don't back down, and they ask their teammates to give them their best. Heath Miller is another guy that leads, not always vocally but by example. I believe it was Heath that told AB to cool his jets during that whole snafu with Mike Vick not being able to get him the ball, and AB complaining about not getting enough targets.

The defense is no different. Cameron Heyward, Stephon Tuitt, and James Harrison are the leaders on the defensive side of the ball. They take losses to heart, and they give their all on the field, but this being professional football sometimes giving your all doesn't always translate into wins. If you made the argument a few years ago that there weren't real leaders on this team, I'd understand it a little more, but we definitely have guys on this team that are leaders.

Leadership isn't the issue here, it's execution. The players need to clean up their mistakes, and the defensive secondary in particular needs to step up their play. These guys know that. There is no void of leadership. We have plenty of veteran players on this team, some younger like Heyward, and Tuitt. And some older like Roethlisberger, Miller, and Harrison. We also have Joey Porter on the sidelines that's a proven player, and a leader as well.

I agree and don't forget to add Timmons. He's not vocal but leads by example kinda like Aaron Smith did.

Completely agree with Iowa.

Also, the game isn't like it was when Hines was a leader.  Can you imagine how many penalties Hines would rack up now for being "too rough"?  Let's face it, football is becoming more and more of a finesse game.

The days of describing football in this way are over (Carlin could use his higher voice to describe both):

SteelersYak wrote:

Completely agree with Iowa.

Also, the game isn't like it was when Hines was a leader.  Can you imagine how many penalties Hines would rack up now for being "too rough"?  Let's face it, football is becoming more and more of a finesse game.

The days of describing football in this way are over (Carlin could use his higher voice to describe both):

Kudos on the George Carlin call back. Wish the man was still alive, his ranting and raving about the world now would be nuts. All the shit going on he'd be talking about, speaking the truth.

RIP to one of the greatest comedians of all time.

I'm on the Iowa squad, though I understand the OP's point of view. Just hope the team gets it straight real soon.

SteelerEmpire wrote:

Tomlin stated recently this year, "he (as a coach) does't spend time motivating". When I read that quote, it helped confirm my observations.

Everything that Tomlin says is just rhetoric. You're reading way too much into that comment. In fact, Tomlin is seen around the league as a very motivational guy.

Yeah we need some of those "rah-rah kind of guys" Ben isn't that guy, its just not his personality, hes humble and over all pretty calm compared to most QBs. As far as defense I guess Harrison should be that guy but hes not, Shazier plays with a lot of heart maybe he can step into that role.

SteelersYak wrote:

Completely agree with Iowa.

Also, the game isn't like it was when Hines was a leader.  Can you imagine how many penalties Hines would rack up now for being "too rough"?  Let's face it, football is becoming more and more of a finesse game.

The days of describing football in this way are over (Carlin could use his higher voice to describe both):

I remember watching that skit when I was like 10, at the time I was a bigger baseball fan.... I felt a little insulted, lol.

Heyward?

SteelersCanada wrote:

Heyward?

Heyward? You wanna talk about Heyward?

Playoffs?

Seriously though he is a leader. If there is a problem it's these guys that are leaders or becoming leaders are not loud trash talkers and I don't see anything wrong there. Hines was not loud or A.Smith or Harrison but we won SBs with these guys leading by example.

solardave wrote:

SteelersCanada wrote:

Heyward?

Heyward? You wanna talk about Heyward?

Playoffs?

Seriously though he is a leader. If there is a problem it's these guys that are leaders or becoming leaders are not loud trash talkers and I don't see anything wrong there.  Hines was not loud or A.Smith or Harrison but we won SBs with these guys leading by example.

I agree.

It seems like when most people think about leadership they think about a guy like Ray Lewis standing in the middle of 53 men, controlling the moment and motivating his team. That's great, but there are a lot of ways to lead a team.

As you said, there have been countless teams over the years that have been lead by strong men that are great players, and lead quietly in their actions and their words when it counts. Just because someone isn't coming out of a tunnel doing a special dance and screaming and preening for the camera, doesn't mean he isn't a leader.

Sometimes a leader is the guy that comes over to you when you just screwed up, and taps you on the head and talks to you about not letting the same thing happen next time. Sometimes the leader is the guy that spends extra time in the privacy of the locker room or outside of the building on their own time, mentoring a fellow player about the game or about life.

There are many forms of leadership. All that matters is that there are people on the team that have earned the respect of their teammates to the point that the others care about how that player thinks about them, and they don't want to let them down.

I think there is enough leadership on this team to win if healthy. They just need a player or two to become a scary-good team.

Agreed @solardave and @pczach. I was inferring that Heyward is a leader, just not a rah-rah guy.

SteelerEmpire wrote:

Been studying the Steelers for a LONG time. This is my #1 issue missing from this current team:

No coach can do it alone. Not even Noll could.

We had leaders on the defense who were "mean", and very vocal, in both the Steel Curtain (Joe Greene) and Blitzburgh (Joey Porter) days. Hines Ward (a leader) was there for both #5 and 6 SB's. The team NEVER won a SB without at least one of those types of personalities on the team, and never will.

Tomlin stated recently this year, "he (as a coach) does't spend time motivating". When I read that quote, it helped confirm my observations.

Currently, lots of "finesse" and talent, but no "true leaders" that will make the guys go the extra mile -esp in crunch time, game after game. Hence, no playoff wins since 2011, one and done last yr basically against the Ravens 2nd string, and still struggling to make the playoffs and losing games the team should win in 2015. No "vocal" leadership. Somethings just not right (based on my many yrs of observation)... Not really Steelers football, I think these guys are way too passive.

I've always thought of Tomlin as more of a manager than a coach.

If this team was a corporate office, Tomlin would be more like a department head.
Noll was more of a hands-on teacher while Tomlin leans on assistants for that sort of thing.

I don't know if that makes him better, worse, different or just representative of what coaching has become.

FanSince72 wrote:

SteelerEmpire wrote:

Been studying the Steelers for a LONG time. This is my #1 issue missing from this current team:

No coach can do it alone. Not even Noll could.

We had leaders on the defense who were "mean", and very vocal, in both the Steel Curtain (Joe Greene) and Blitzburgh (Joey Porter) days. Hines Ward (a leader) was there for both #5 and 6 SB's. The team NEVER won a SB without at least one of those types of personalities on the team, and never will.

Tomlin stated recently this year, "he (as a coach) does't spend time motivating". When I read that quote, it helped confirm my observations.

Currently, lots of "finesse" and talent, but no "true leaders" that will make the guys go the extra mile -esp in crunch time, game after game. Hence, no playoff wins since 2011, one and done last yr basically against the Ravens 2nd string, and still struggling to make the playoffs and losing games the team should win in 2015. No "vocal" leadership. Somethings just not right (based on my many yrs of observation)... Not really Steelers football, I think these guys are way too passive.

I've always thought of Tomlin as more of a manager than a coach.

If this team was a corporate office, Tomlin would be more like a department head.
Noll was more of a hands-on teacher while Tomlin leans on assistants for that sort of thing.

I don't know if that makes him better, worse, different or just representative of what coaching has become.

Yes, this is what modern coaching is. The Head Coach hires position coaches and coordinators to do the day to day skill coaching or scheme coaching within the gameplan. The Head Coach manages the entire team of coaches and would give input of the direction he wants to see the gameplan or skill development going with position groups.

The whole notion that NFL coaches are motivators is frankly silly to me. These men are the top 100th of a percent of football players in America. They didn't get there by not being motivated. This isn't highschool.

This stuff doesn't come up....if the Steelers don't have games where they look like they just got out of bed and piss away games to the likes of the 1-11 and 2-10(or whatever their sh**y record was) jets/bucs/saints of the world.

Then you factor in even when they win games, a lot of em are....it's in heart attack fashion that comes down to the last second.....

El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:

FanSince72 wrote:

SteelerEmpire wrote:

Been studying the Steelers for a LONG time. This is my #1 issue missing from this current team:

No coach can do it alone. Not even Noll could.

We had leaders on the defense who were "mean", and very vocal, in both the Steel Curtain (Joe Greene) and Blitzburgh (Joey Porter) days. Hines Ward (a leader) was there for both #5 and 6 SB's. The team NEVER won a SB without at least one of those types of personalities on the team, and never will.

Tomlin stated recently this year, "he (as a coach) does't spend time motivating". When I read that quote, it helped confirm my observations.

Currently, lots of "finesse" and talent, but no "true leaders" that will make the guys go the extra mile -esp in crunch time, game after game. Hence, no playoff wins since 2011, one and done last yr basically against the Ravens 2nd string, and still struggling to make the playoffs and losing games the team should win in 2015. No "vocal" leadership. Somethings just not right (based on my many yrs of observation)... Not really Steelers football, I think these guys are way too passive.

I've always thought of Tomlin as more of a manager than a coach.

If this team was a corporate office, Tomlin would be more like a department head.
Noll was more of a hands-on teacher while Tomlin leans on assistants for that sort of thing.

I don't know if that makes him better, worse, different or just representative of what coaching has become.

Yes, this is what modern coaching is.  The Head Coach hires position coaches and coordinators to do the day to day skill coaching or scheme coaching within the gameplan.  The Head Coach manages the entire team of coaches and would give input of the direction he wants to see the gameplan or skill development going with position groups.

The whole notion that NFL coaches are motivators is frankly silly to me.  These men are the top 100th of a percent of football players in America.  They didn't get there by not being motivated.  This isn't highschool.

I agree.
If a player makes it to the NFL and still needs to be motivated then all the coaching in the world isn't going to help.

SteelerSpartan wrote:

This stuff doesn't come up....if the Steelers don't have games where they look like they just got out of bed and piss away games to the likes of the 1-11 and 2-10(or whatever their sh**y record was) jets/bucs/saints of the world.

Then you factor in even when they win games, a lot of em are....it's in heart attack fashion that comes down to the last second.....

yeah I made sure to stock up on blood pressure medication, klonopin and cheap vodka to get me through the game tonight. Ill save the vodka for the last 2 minutes.

SteelersCanada wrote:

Agreed @solardave and @pczach. I was inferring that Heyward is a leader, just not a rah-rah guy.

I know SC. I was just saying that so many fans want a guy that foams at the mouth and screams and yells. Leaders come in many forms. Like you said, Heyward is a leader.