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Hawaii 5-0

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PostSubject: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyMon Dec 28, 2015 1:23 am

Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss to Baltimore

by JUSTIN RUOFF

Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  164092015_1605_49ers_at_Steelers-e1448850729517

Nameless, gray faces.

That is the term Pittsburgh Steelers coach Mike Tomlin likes to use when talking about his upcoming opponent. In his mind, it is a way of eliminating distractions and it helps his team focus primarily on their play. As a result, we’ve heard Tomlin use this phrase hundreds of times during his tenure as the Steelers’ head coach.

On Sunday though, it cost him.

The Steelers went into Baltimore this week looking to cement their position in the playoffs with an easy victory over their rival, who are down on their luck. The Ravens had lost their last three games by a combined score of 82-35 and started a quarterback who just joined the team 10 days ago. So, naturally, the Steelers were a 10-point favorite, despite being on the road.

Unfortunately for Pittsburgh though, it wasn’t the easy game everyone expected. The Steelers struggled to get going on offense and ended up losing the game 20-17. The loss puts the Steelers on the outside looking in for the playoffs with just one-week left to play. They’ll need to win their last game against the Browns next week and they’ll need the Jets to lose in Buffalo.

But it shouldn’t have been this way. The Steelers should have rolled over the Ravens as everyone expected. Honestly, they would have if it weren’t for a questionable first quarter decision by Tomlin.

To start the game, Pittsburgh got the football first and immediately started to dominate with the running game. They marched down the field, but were eventually faced with a relatively short fourth down on the Ravens’ 25-yard line.

At this point, Tomlin could have easily sent his kicker out and given the Steelers an early lead. Although Pittsburgh had their problems with kickers early in the season, Chris Boswell has quickly become one of the more reliable kickers in the NFL for the Steelers. He’s made 26 out of the 28 kicks he has attempted, which is good for the sixth best percentage in the NFL.

But instead of taking the three points, Tomlin left his offense on the field and attempted to get the first down. Pittsburgh ran the ball with DeAngelo Williams, but he was held up short and the Steelers came away from the first drive empty handed.

Now I understand the logic behind this decision. The Steelers were running the ball very efficiently and it didn’t seem like Baltimore could stop them. There was really no reason to think they wouldn’t get the one-yard.

The problem is the Ravens gained a lot of confidence by stopping Pittsburgh. It was confidence they hadn’t felt it quite some time. It gave them momentum for the first time in weeks and it drastically changed the game. No longer was it a game between a 9-5 team and a 4-10 team. It was now a rivalry game.

And that was exactly what Pittsburgh didn’t want to happen. The three points would have kept the Ravens’ confidence down and risking that was not worth the risk. It certainly wasn’t in this case, as Pittsburgh ended up losing by, oddly enough, three points.

Hopefully the decision doesn’t cost the Steelers a playoff spot.

http://www.todayspigskin.com/afc-today/pittsburgh-steelers/tomlins-overconfidence-costs-steelers-in-loss-to-baltimore/
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El-Gonzo Jackson

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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyMon Dec 28, 2015 1:30 am

Poor article. I didn't bother to look it up, but likely some blogger writing from his parents basement again.

John Wooden talks in his book about coaching his teams to focus on their own execution and performance and not worrying about their opposition. As a coach, I understand that completely and its not arrogance, its working hard on what you can control. Respect your opponent, but expect to outwork and outperform them....because that is what you can control.

I agreed with going for it on 4th down, but I said verbally at that point. "strength of the Ravens defense is their front 7, so the Steelers should go some kind of play action and not run into Jernigan, Upshaw, Dumerville".
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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyMon Dec 28, 2015 2:32 am

El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
Poor article.  I didn't bother to look it up, but likely some blogger writing from his parents basement again.

John Wooden talks in his book about coaching his teams to focus on their own execution and performance and not worrying about their opposition.  As a coach, I understand that completely and its not arrogance, its working hard on what you can control.  Respect your opponent, but expect to outwork and outperform them....because that is what you can control.

I agreed with going for it on 4th down, but I said verbally at that point.  "strength of the Ravens defense is their front 7, so the Steelers should go some kind of play action and not run into Jernigan, Upshaw, Dumerville".  

I agree. Right call wrong play.
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SoCalFan

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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyMon Dec 28, 2015 7:33 am

I disagree 100%! Any time you have a shot at 3 points against the ravens you take it! These games are typically decided on 3 points and knowing if they stuff us (which they did) would cause a HUGE momentum swing in this rivalry driven by emotion! YOU TAKE THE F@#KIN POINTS!!! Guess what, WE LOST BY 3 POINTS!

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SteelerSpartan

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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyMon Dec 28, 2015 7:40 am

If you want to bitch about The general Zombie Mode that gets us beaten by sub.500 teams....about Tomlin or Ben, then fine.

Going for it there was way down on the list of things that doomed us Sunday.

I'd rather hammer Tomlin and this coaching staffs head over the absurdity of that Fake FG in Seattle....

Yeah I'm not letting that sh** go...especially after yesterday.

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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyMon Dec 28, 2015 8:32 am

SteelerSpartan wrote:
If you want to bitch about The general Zombie Mode that gets us beaten by sub.500 teams....about Tomlin or Ben, then fine.

Going for it there was way down on the list of things that doomed us Sunday.

I'd rather hammer Tomlin and this coaching staffs head over the absurdity of that Fake FG in Seattle....

Yeah I'm not letting that sh** go...especially after yesterday.

The way DeAngelo Williams was running yesterday, the smart move was to go for it on 4th an short. With that said, with most Ravens-Steelers games, you want to take any points you can get.

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IowaSteeler927

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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyMon Dec 28, 2015 8:39 am

Tomlin has repeatedly said these games always come down to a few points... He didn't kick that FG, and we lost by 3. The aggressiveness is high risk, high reward and yesterday it bit us in the ass. Divisional game against an opponent that brings their "A" game against us no matter how bad they are.... Take the points!

Baltimore puts more of an emphasis on this matchup than we do. Plain and simple. Being a Hawkeyes fan, Baltimore is like our very own Iowa State. They circle us two times every year and come out swinging. We come out just expecting them to gift us a win, and lose to a team quarterbacked by Ryan Leaf JR.

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DesertSteel

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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyMon Dec 28, 2015 10:51 am

El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
Poor article.  I didn't bother to look it up, but likely some blogger writing from his parents basement again.

John Wooden talks in his book about coaching his teams to focus on their own execution and performance and not worrying about their opposition.  As a coach, I understand that completely and its not arrogance, its working hard on what you can control.  Respect your opponent, but expect to outwork and outperform them....because that is what you can control.

I agreed with going for it on 4th down, but I said verbally at that point.  "strength of the Ravens defense is their front 7, so the Steelers should go some kind of play action and not run into Jernigan, Upshaw, Dumerville".  

Me too... before the call, I said I hope we go for it. I have ZERO issue with the decision.
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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyMon Dec 28, 2015 11:37 am

The reason the Steelers ran down the field was because the Ravens were in a different defense until the fourth down play. From what I could see, the Ravens were playing Cover-2 or a shell defense protecting the back end to eliminate the big play the entire drive until the fourth down play. On fourth down, they had 8 or 9 in the box in press coverage to stop the run.

The running play shouldn't have been run. If Ben was allowed to audible, and he didn't get them out of the play, it's on him. If it was the call from the sideline, and Ben wasn't allowed to get out of a bad play or call timeout, it's on the coaches.

Either way, it was a bad play call for the defense the Ravens were in.

I didn't agree with going for it on fourth down, because they were on the road against a team that can't score a ton of points and they had a chance to put points on the board. The call in and of itself didn't lose the game, but Tomlin had to know what a failed fourth down conversion can do to a team that didn't believe before that play.

He gambled and lost. It was clearly the turning point of the game. You could see the Ravens ignite after that stop. There is no denying it.

I am not calling for Mike Tomlin's head. That's what many are doing, but I'm not one of them. I think he made a mistake, but there was plenty of time for the team to overcome the fourth down failure.

I think most of us can agree on this:

The game plan was flawed.

The coaches took their star QB out of the game by not throwing the ball in the first half and until they were far behind.

Ben didn't do a good enough job taking what was there instead of forcing throws.

The wide receivers had a horrible day dropping more than a few great throws that cost points the entire game.

The defense allowed the Ravens to control the game and score points nearly every time they needed to.

They allowed a career backup QB to throw for a career high in yards while learning and running an offense he was in for just ten days.

The team was off in nearly every facet of the game.

They were outplayed and outcoached.

Blame is something we all throw around after losses. The one thing I know for sure is that Harbaugh has gotten in Tomlin's head. He got Tomlin's team to move away from what they do best and play right into the Ravens' hands. Because of that, the team followed suit with their head coach and did some things out of character. I think that was Tomlin's biggest mistake, and it cost this team.

Again, I'm not calling for Tomlin's head. I do think he has to find himself when the Steelers play the Ravens. He is clearly losing the battle of the coaching staffs in many of these games between these teams. There is no doubt who won that battle yesterday.


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El-Gonzo Jackson

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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyMon Dec 28, 2015 12:18 pm

JonM229 wrote:
SteelerSpartan wrote:
If you want to bitch about The general Zombie Mode that gets us beaten by sub.500 teams....about Tomlin or Ben, then fine.

Going for it there was way down on the list of things that doomed us Sunday.

I'd rather hammer Tomlin and this coaching staffs head over the absurdity of that Fake FG in Seattle....

Yeah I'm not letting that sh** go...especially after yesterday.

The way DeAngelo Williams was running yesterday, the smart move was to go for it on 4th an short.  With that said, with most Ravens-Steelers games, you want to take any points you can get.

D Williams was running from 3-WR sets with the field spread out. That 4th down play was short yardage double (or triple) TE package that played right into the bulk of the line where guys like Jernigan and Williams can clog space.

Right idea, but either go play action from that formation or spread the field and give to Williams. That wasn't Faneca, Hartings, Smith with Dan Kreider lead blocking for Bettis out there.
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El-Gonzo Jackson

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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyMon Dec 28, 2015 12:38 pm

IowaSteeler927 wrote:
Tomlin has repeatedly said these games always come down to a few points... He didn't kick that FG, and we lost by 3. The aggressiveness is high risk, high reward and yesterday it bit us in the ass. Divisional game against an opponent that brings their "A" game against us no matter how bad they are.... Take the points!

Baltimore puts more of an emphasis on this matchup than we do. Plain and simple. Being a Hawkeyes fan, Baltimore is like our very own Iowa State. They circle us two times every year and come out swinging. We come out just expecting them to gift us a win, and lose to a team quarterbacked by Ryan Leaf JR.

I disagree. Early in the game, best offense in the NFL, Ben Roethlisberger playing great the past few weeks...you take advantage of the field position to get 7.

Do you think that if Iowa in the same situation, that Hayden Fry trots out Tom Nichol to kick the FG and doesn't put Chuck Long, Jonathon Hayes and Ronnie Harmon out there?
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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyMon Dec 28, 2015 6:47 pm

Kick the field goal. You aren't in 4 down territory, and your Kicker is a lock up to around 50. We lost by those 3 points.

The fact is this team can't play horrible teams for jack shit. And if they don't get in the playoffs, fuck em. They don't deserve it. Real teams take care of their own business.

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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyMon Dec 28, 2015 7:07 pm

I was all for it. But everytime he goes for it on 4th down early on and "doesn't make it", I know it's going to be a LONG game... It's like a jinx

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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyTue Dec 29, 2015 12:03 am

The Bottom line is no one EVER wants to blame Tomlin for anything, makes you wonder if Tomlin is a great coach for the Wins shouldn't he be at fault for the losses as well?
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Hawaii 5-0

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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyTue Dec 29, 2015 2:02 am

Steelers Final Score Podcast: Mike Tomlin deserves blame, but not all of it after Week 16 loss

By Jeff.Hartman on Dec 28, 2015

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/btsc-on-demand/2015/12/28/10671244/steelers-final-score-podcast-mike-tomlin-deserves-blame-but-not-all
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IowaSteeler927

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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyTue Dec 29, 2015 2:38 am

El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
IowaSteeler927 wrote:
Tomlin has repeatedly said these games always come down to a few points... He didn't kick that FG, and we lost by 3. The aggressiveness is high risk, high reward and yesterday it bit us in the ass. Divisional game against an opponent that brings their "A" game against us no matter how bad they are.... Take the points!

Baltimore puts more of an emphasis on this matchup than we do. Plain and simple. Being a Hawkeyes fan, Baltimore is like our very own Iowa State. They circle us two times every year and come out swinging. We come out just expecting them to gift us a win, and lose to a team quarterbacked by Ryan Leaf JR.

I disagree.  Early in the game, best offense in the NFL, Ben Roethlisberger playing great the past few weeks...you take advantage of the field position to get 7.

Do you think that if Iowa in the same situation, that Hayden Fry trots out Tom Nichol to kick the FG and doesn't put Chuck Long, Jonathon Hayes and Ronnie Harmon out there?

Depends. Hayden Fry had balls of steel, and was a known risk taker, but he knew when to take risks, and when not to.

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El-Gonzo Jackson

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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyTue Dec 29, 2015 11:19 am

IowaSteeler927 wrote:
El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
IowaSteeler927 wrote:
Tomlin has repeatedly said these games always come down to a few points... He didn't kick that FG, and we lost by 3. The aggressiveness is high risk, high reward and yesterday it bit us in the ass. Divisional game against an opponent that brings their "A" game against us no matter how bad they are.... Take the points!

Baltimore puts more of an emphasis on this matchup than we do. Plain and simple. Being a Hawkeyes fan, Baltimore is like our very own Iowa State. They circle us two times every year and come out swinging. We come out just expecting them to gift us a win, and lose to a team quarterbacked by Ryan Leaf JR.

I disagree.  Early in the game, best offense in the NFL, Ben Roethlisberger playing great the past few weeks...you take advantage of the field position to get 7.

Do you think that if Iowa in the same situation, that Hayden Fry trots out Tom Nichol to kick the FG and doesn't put Chuck Long, Jonathon Hayes and Ronnie Harmon out there?

Depends. Hayden Fry had balls of steel, and was a known risk taker, but he knew when to take risks, and when not to.

I'm a Schembechler fan, but really respected Fry and that era of Hawkeye football. There are times when coaches decide to not take what the opposition gives them, but rather "take what we want". I think Fry would bark out from behind those sunglasses to send in a play. Like you said, the man had balls of steel and would play to win the game IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyTue Dec 29, 2015 2:20 pm

El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
IowaSteeler927 wrote:
El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
IowaSteeler927 wrote:
Tomlin has repeatedly said these games always come down to a few points... He didn't kick that FG, and we lost by 3. The aggressiveness is high risk, high reward and yesterday it bit us in the ass. Divisional game against an opponent that brings their "A" game against us no matter how bad they are.... Take the points!

Baltimore puts more of an emphasis on this matchup than we do. Plain and simple. Being a Hawkeyes fan, Baltimore is like our very own Iowa State. They circle us two times every year and come out swinging. We come out just expecting them to gift us a win, and lose to a team quarterbacked by Ryan Leaf JR.

I disagree.  Early in the game, best offense in the NFL, Ben Roethlisberger playing great the past few weeks...you take advantage of the field position to get 7.

Do you think that if Iowa in the same situation, that Hayden Fry trots out Tom Nichol to kick the FG and doesn't put Chuck Long, Jonathon Hayes and Ronnie Harmon out there?

Depends. Hayden Fry had balls of steel, and was a known risk taker, but he knew when to take risks, and when not to.

I'm a Schembechler fan, but really respected Fry and that era of Hawkeye football.  There are times when coaches decide to not take what the opposition gives them, but rather "take what we want".  I think Fry would bark out from behind those sunglasses to send in a play.  Like you said, the man had balls of steel and would play to win the game IMO.


Sometimes taking points is playing to win.

Why is it when a coach goes for it on fourth down on the first drive of the game, he's playing to win?

I like when a coach goes for a touchdown late in a game to put away the opponent. I think that's playing to win. Not taking points to take the initial lead in a game on the opening drive against a team that struggles to score is a different matter entirely.

I like aggressiveness in coaching, but sometimes it just feels like Tomlin is trying to prove something. In this game, he made it feel like an old Steelers/Ravens game with a priority of running the ball and playing defense. He was hoping for the team to impose their will on the Ravens, but they got into a bad play for the defense that was on the field and got stuffed. He made it into the game that the Ravens wanted to play. There was no need to take his own team's passing offense out of the game to prove a point. Everything leading into this game said the way to attack the Ravens was with the passing game.

I still contend he made the team play out of character, and they individually followed the lead of the head coach. Ben barely threw the ball for over an hour in the first half. When he did start to have to throw, he had no rhythm and made poor decisions. The entire team seemed to be out of sorts a bit throughout the game.

It's as if they forgot who they were and how they are supposed to play. Some of that is also on the players, but the coach set the tone of the game.

Sometimes giving a team a chance to believe they can win by not taking the percentage play is not playing to win. It's a risk that doesn't need to be taken.




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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyTue Dec 29, 2015 2:55 pm

pczach wrote:
Sometimes taking points is playing to win.

Why is it when a coach goes for it on fourth down on the first drive of the game, he's playing to win? ...

Sometimes giving a team a chance to believe they can win by not taking the percentage play is not playing to win. It's a risk that doesn't need to be taken.

Tomlin belatedly appears to agree - this from his press conference today

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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyTue Dec 29, 2015 2:58 pm

Atlanta Dan wrote:
pczach wrote:
Sometimes taking points is playing to win.

Why is it when a coach goes for it on fourth down on the first drive of the game, he's playing to win? ...

Sometimes giving a team a chance to believe they can win by not taking the percentage play is not playing to win. It's a risk that doesn't need to be taken.

Tomlin belatedly appears to agree - this from his press conference today


Gotta admit I had a terrible feeling after that play + Balt marching down the field for a TD. That was a 10 point swing and huge in a division game like this one.
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El-Gonzo Jackson

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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyTue Dec 29, 2015 3:06 pm

pczach wrote:
El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
IowaSteeler927 wrote:
El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
IowaSteeler927 wrote:
Tomlin has repeatedly said these games always come down to a few points... He didn't kick that FG, and we lost by 3. The aggressiveness is high risk, high reward and yesterday it bit us in the ass. Divisional game against an opponent that brings their "A" game against us no matter how bad they are.... Take the points!

Baltimore puts more of an emphasis on this matchup than we do. Plain and simple. Being a Hawkeyes fan, Baltimore is like our very own Iowa State. They circle us two times every year and come out swinging. We come out just expecting them to gift us a win, and lose to a team quarterbacked by Ryan Leaf JR.

I disagree.  Early in the game, best offense in the NFL, Ben Roethlisberger playing great the past few weeks...you take advantage of the field position to get 7.

Do you think that if Iowa in the same situation, that Hayden Fry trots out Tom Nichol to kick the FG and doesn't put Chuck Long, Jonathon Hayes and Ronnie Harmon out there?

Depends. Hayden Fry had balls of steel, and was a known risk taker, but he knew when to take risks, and when not to.

I'm a Schembechler fan, but really respected Fry and that era of Hawkeye football.  There are times when coaches decide to not take what the opposition gives them, but rather "take what we want".  I think Fry would bark out from behind those sunglasses to send in a play.  Like you said, the man had balls of steel and would play to win the game IMO.


Sometimes taking points is playing to win.

Why is it when a coach goes for it on fourth down on the first drive of the game, he's playing to win?

I like when a coach goes for a touchdown late in a game to put away the opponent. I think that's playing to win. Not taking points to take the initial lead in a game on the opening drive against a team that struggles to score is a different matter entirely.

I like aggressiveness in coaching, but sometimes it just feels like Tomlin is trying to prove something. In this game, he made it feel like an old Steelers/Ravens game with a priority of running the ball and playing defense. He was hoping for the team to impose their will on the Ravens, but they got into a bad play for the defense that was on the field and got stuffed. He made it into the game that the Ravens wanted to play. There was no need to take his own team's passing offense out of the game to prove a point. Everything leading into this game said the way to attack the Ravens was with the passing game.

I still contend he made the team play out of character, and they individually followed the lead of the head coach. Ben barely threw the ball for over an hour in the first half. When he did start to have to throw, he had no rhythm and made poor decisions. The entire team seemed to be out of sorts a bit throughout the game.

It's as if they forgot who they were and how they are supposed to play. Some of that is also on the players, but the coach set the tone of the game.

Sometimes giving a team a chance to believe they can win by not taking the percentage play is not playing to win. It's a risk that doesn't need to be taken.




The rhythm of the whole drive, the way the Steelers were moving the football, the opportunity to strike first and big, the fact that Ben has been playing great football lately and the offense was being touted as the "best in the league", "the most dangerous offense in the NFL if they make the playoffs". I still believe as a coach you go and get that 1 yard. It makes a statement that you believe in the best offense in the NFL that you can go get 1 yard and set the tone.

IMO, the wrong playcall was made and I said before they broke the huddle..."just better not play to the Ravens strength and plow a run into their defensive line".

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pczach

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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyTue Dec 29, 2015 3:11 pm

El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
pczach wrote:
El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
IowaSteeler927 wrote:
El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
IowaSteeler927 wrote:
Tomlin has repeatedly said these games always come down to a few points... He didn't kick that FG, and we lost by 3. The aggressiveness is high risk, high reward and yesterday it bit us in the ass. Divisional game against an opponent that brings their "A" game against us no matter how bad they are.... Take the points!

Baltimore puts more of an emphasis on this matchup than we do. Plain and simple. Being a Hawkeyes fan, Baltimore is like our very own Iowa State. They circle us two times every year and come out swinging. We come out just expecting them to gift us a win, and lose to a team quarterbacked by Ryan Leaf JR.

I disagree.  Early in the game, best offense in the NFL, Ben Roethlisberger playing great the past few weeks...you take advantage of the field position to get 7.

Do you think that if Iowa in the same situation, that Hayden Fry trots out Tom Nichol to kick the FG and doesn't put Chuck Long, Jonathon Hayes and Ronnie Harmon out there?

Depends. Hayden Fry had balls of steel, and was a known risk taker, but he knew when to take risks, and when not to.

I'm a Schembechler fan, but really respected Fry and that era of Hawkeye football.  There are times when coaches decide to not take what the opposition gives them, but rather "take what we want".  I think Fry would bark out from behind those sunglasses to send in a play.  Like you said, the man had balls of steel and would play to win the game IMO.


Sometimes taking points is playing to win.

Why is it when a coach goes for it on fourth down on the first drive of the game, he's playing to win?

I like when a coach goes for a touchdown late in a game to put away the opponent. I think that's playing to win. Not taking points to take the initial lead in a game on the opening drive against a team that struggles to score is a different matter entirely.

I like aggressiveness in coaching, but sometimes it just feels like Tomlin is trying to prove something. In this game, he made it feel like an old Steelers/Ravens game with a priority of running the ball and playing defense. He was hoping for the team to impose their will on the Ravens, but they got into a bad play for the defense that was on the field and got stuffed. He made it into the game that the Ravens wanted to play. There was no need to take his own team's passing offense out of the game to prove a point. Everything leading into this game said the way to attack the Ravens was with the passing game.

I still contend he made the team play out of character, and they individually followed the lead of the head coach. Ben barely threw the ball for over an hour in the first half. When he did start to have to throw, he had no rhythm and made poor decisions. The entire team seemed to be out of sorts a bit throughout the game.

It's as if they forgot who they were and how they are supposed to play. Some of that is also on the players, but the coach set the tone of the game.

Sometimes giving a team a chance to believe they can win by not taking the percentage play is not playing to win. It's a risk that doesn't need to be taken.




The rhythm of the whole drive, the way the Steelers were moving the football, the opportunity to strike first and big, the fact that Ben has been playing great football lately and the offense was being touted as the "best in the league", "the most dangerous offense in the NFL if they make the playoffs".  I still believe as a coach you go and get that 1 yard.  It makes a statement that you believe in the best offense in the NFL that you can go get 1 yard and set the tone.

IMO, the wrong playcall was made and I said before they broke the huddle..."just better not play to the Ravens strength and plow a run into their defensive line".



I completely get it. At least the reasoning behind it.

The problem was he didn't use his "best in the league" Qb, and played a style that was not playing to the Steelers' strengths almost the entire first half.

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El-Gonzo Jackson

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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyTue Dec 29, 2015 3:20 pm

pczach wrote:



I completely get it. At least the reasoning behind it.

The problem was he didn't use his "best in the league" Qb, and played a style that was not playing to the Steelers' strengths almost the entire first half.

I said in another thread...the Ravens were playing Cover-2, man under coverage to take away the deep ball. That spread the field, so the handoff to Williams to find a seam and burst for yardage was open early and often.

IMO, On that 4th down, the Steelers should have gone 3WR, 1 TE to spread the field and either hand off to Williams, or go play action to one of those receivers. Keep doing what was working and not go short yardage and run into the teeth of the Ravens front 7 with tight O line splits.
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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyTue Dec 29, 2015 3:22 pm

Fire Arians wrote:
Atlanta Dan wrote:
pczach wrote:
Sometimes taking points is playing to win.

Why is it when a coach goes for it on fourth down on the first drive of the game, he's playing to win? ...

Sometimes giving a team a chance to believe they can win by not taking the percentage play is not playing to win. It's a risk that doesn't need to be taken.

Tomlin belatedly appears to agree - this from his press conference today


Gotta admit I had a terrible feeling after that play + Balt marching down the field for a TD. That was a 10 point swing and huge in a division game like this one.

Stop, I can only get so erect

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Steelcitian

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PostSubject: Re: Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss    Tomlin’s overconfidence costs Steelers in loss  EmptyTue Dec 29, 2015 3:56 pm

JonM229 wrote:
Fire Arians wrote:
Atlanta Dan wrote:
pczach wrote:
Sometimes taking points is playing to win.

Why is it when a coach goes for it on fourth down on the first drive of the game, he's playing to win? ...

Sometimes giving a team a chance to believe they can win by not taking the percentage play is not playing to win. It's a risk that doesn't need to be taken.

Tomlin belatedly appears to agree - this from his press conference today


Gotta admit I had a terrible feeling after that play + Balt marching down the field for a TD. That was a 10 point swing and huge in a division game like this one.

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They don't call him Joe Flaccid for nothing.
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