State of the defense: Middle is fine, edges need work, depth is scarce

That's my summary. I don't think the defense will be anything special this season, but I also don't think it'll be as bad as it looked against the Bills -- provided the unit stays relatively healthy, at least. First of all, Stephon Tuitt, Lawrence Timmons and Mike Mitchell didn't play, which I think partially explains the big plays allowed. Another explanation is that some players are still learning the revised defensive schemes, like Vince Williams, who was at fault for the long TD bomb early in the game.

What has me concerned, however, is the lack of depth on defense. Once all the starters were done playing, the Bills scored 30 more points, and many of the players looked lost on the field. The good news is, some of these players will be cut soon, but the bad news is, it indicates a lack of quality depth. Mike Tomlin also lamented the lack of aggression by the defensive reserves, which, granted, could be a symptom of still learning the defense. Overall, though, the defense could be in trouble with more than a couple of injuries.

Basically, I expect the defense to struggle early in the season but gradually improve late. Just as it took the offense some time to master Todd Haley's system, it'll take the defense some time to master Keith Butler's system.

I hope you're right. Boykin dropped an int. with a clear path to the endzone. That had nothing to do with not knowing the defense. One injury and he is probably starting. Honestly I think this guy was a bad move. I'm not going to say that drop was a turning point. I think halftime was our turning point. I recorded the game,watched up until the 3rd and shut it off. I will delete it from my TV but my memory will take a little longer unless they start to play. Notice I didn't say play better.
Shazier blew up the rb once for a loss but missed several tackles. Jones was a non factor period. If we can't pressure the QB we can't cover good enough to compensate. It has to be the other way around. Our front has to pressure to make up for our porous secondary.

Too many players on defense that are mediocre and have been overvalued.

Moats is serviceable at best. McClendon...expected more of an impact from him. Spence....feel good story aside, is an undersized inside LB....a career backup. Jarvis Jones = bust.
Shamarko can provide run support and hit but can't cover. Shazier = ?, lots of speed but over pursues too often.

I know..... "it's pre-season, playing vanilla schemes, starters are sitting, saving it for when it really counts."

However, I don't see this defense getting significantly better when the games count.

Todd and Ben need to raise the point total target up to 40.....30 a game may not cut it.

solardave wrote:

Boykin dropped an int. with a clear path to the endzone. That had nothing to do with not knowing the defense. One injury and he is probably starting. Honestly I think this guy was a bad move.

Why do you think getting Boykin was a bad move? I have not seen him play, but I thought everyone was saying he was a stud.

Rhyno wrote:

solardave wrote:

Boykin dropped an int. with a clear path to the endzone. That had nothing to do with not knowing the defense. One injury and he is probably starting. Honestly I think this guy was a bad move.

Why do you think getting Boykin was a bad move? I have not seen him play, but I thought everyone was saying he was a stud.

I have seen him play. Bonehead penalties,missed tackles and like I said a dropped int with a clear path to the endzone. If he can't play why would it be a good move?

I like Boykin and lets be fair, most defensive players don't have the best of hands! I think the 1st team D should play the entire half of the next game. It might take several games for this unit to finally gel. I think its pretty clear, QB pressure will make or break the season for the D!

As I said in another post, what we watched wasn't a football game. It was QB tryouts for Rex Ryan.

solardave wrote:

I have seen him play. Bonehead penalties,missed tackles and like I said a dropped int with a clear path to the endzone. If he can't play why would it be a good move?

So you are saying he did those things in Philadelphia? If so then it does sound like a bad move. If you just saw him do those things in Pittsburgh then it sounds like he is doing his best to fit in. A little too early to call it a bad move, I think.

nikstar wrote:

As I said in another post, what we watched wasn't a football game. It was QB tryouts for Rex Ryan.

you got that right the Bills starting oline played deep into the game.

Rex is playing the preseason hard to make the Bills look good to sell more season tickets.

the sooner we move on from the Jarvis Jones fiasco the better.

solardave wrote:

Rhyno wrote:

solardave wrote:

Boykin dropped an int. with a clear path to the endzone. That had nothing to do with not knowing the defense. One injury and he is probably starting. Honestly I think this guy was a bad move.

Why do you think getting Boykin was a bad move? I have not seen him play, but I thought everyone was saying he was a stud.

I have seen him play. Bonehead penalties,missed tackles and like I said a dropped int with a clear path to the endzone. If he can't play why would it be a good move?

Man just seeing a corner get after the ball is enough for me. What about the swatted down pass in his preseason debut? I feel like hes got major splash play potential he just needs to sharoen his focus with starter reps.

Rhyno wrote:

solardave wrote:

I have seen him play. Bonehead penalties,missed tackles and like I said a dropped int with a clear path to the endzone. If he can't play why would it be a good move?

So you are saying he did those things in Philadelphia? If so then it does sound like a bad move. If you just saw him do those things in Pittsburgh then it sounds like he is doing his best to fit in. A little too early to call it a bad move, I think.

I never saw him play in Philidelphia (he wasn't a starter there) and I don't watch their games. I base what I say from how he has played here and it has not been good. To early to tell, maybe, we'll see. I hope I'm wrong.

DesertSteel wrote:

the sooner we move on from the Jarvis Jones fiasco the better.

I think he will be the guy that keeps Harrison fresh so he can rush the passer. Sadly he is one of the OLB's with some experience on the roster, unless they pick somebody up after cuts. Honestly, I think if he was a 4th round pick, they would have cut him by now.

solardave wrote:

Rhyno wrote:

solardave wrote:

I have seen him play. Bonehead penalties,missed tackles and like I said a dropped int with a clear path to the endzone. If he can't play why would it be a good move?

So you are saying he did those things in Philadelphia? If so then it does sound like a bad move. If you just saw him do those things in Pittsburgh then it sounds like he is doing his best to fit in. A little too early to call it a bad move, I think.

I never saw him play in Philidelphia (he wasn't a starter there) and I don't watch their games. I base what I say from how he has played here and it has not been good. To early to tell, maybe, we'll see. I hope I'm wrong.

Here is an article ranking the top slot CB's in the NFL last year. Boykin is one of them. I'm happy they picked him up.


Brandon Boykin, Eagles

Many Eagles fans wondered why, with their outside cornerback duo of Cary Williams and Bradley Fletcher getting toasted on an alarmingly regular basis, Chip Kelly didn't direct defensive coordinator Billy Davis to put Brandon Boykin out there as a "starter" more often. After all, when he was an outside corner in 2014, Boykin was more effective than either Williams or Fletcher—not that he had to clear a very high bar. But to ask the question is, perhaps, to misunderstand the definition of a starting cornerback in today's NFL. Boykin was a starter: He played 150 snaps outside and 374 snaps in the slot, allowing no touchdowns on all his targets. Williams and Fletcher allowed a combined 14 touchdowns. It could easily be argued that Boykin was the team's most valuable defensive back, which the Eagles seem to have confirmed by the fact that he's the only one of the three still on the team's roster.


“It really is how we practice [that determines where you play], and he practices as our nickel corner,” Kelly said last September of Boykin. “It's a very vital position for us. Billy said that that's a starting position for us, I say that's a starting position for us, that's kind of where it is.”

At 5'10" and 185 pounds, Boykin doesn't fit Kelly's prototype of a starting outside cornerback, but that's less relevant in the grand scheme of things, because Boykin—like all the best slot corners—provides more value from more spaces.
http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/27/hidden-talents-slot-cornerbacks-brandon-boykin-jerraud-powers-casey-hayward

The more I learn about this game, the less concerned I am about the result. It turns out that Martavis Bryant and Ryan Shazier are the only projected starters who played at least half the snaps, and Shamarko Thomas is the only projected defensive starter other than Shazier who played at least a third of the snaps.

I stand by what I said, that the defense will struggle early but gradually improve late.

Craziaskowboi wrote:

I stand by what I said, that the defense will struggle early but gradually improve late.

It has almost nowhere to go but up

This from Peter King MMQB this morning

Pittsburgh is the first team since 1940 to intercept fewer than 12 passes in four consecutive seasons.   Football Outsiders ratings go back to 1989, and Pittsburgh had never ranked lower than 15th on defense from 1989 to 2012 but then ranked 19th in 2013 and 30th in 2014.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/08/30/deflategate-concussion-movie-preseason-week-3-nfl

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

Defense keeping things in perspective

By Mike Prisuta



The Steelers defense continues to adjust and learn from their mistakes during the preseason.

The flaws on defense were obvious on the stat sheet and to the naked eye at Ralph Wilson Stadium.

But what transpired in Saturday afternoon’s 43-19 preseason loss to the Bills wasn’t enough for Steelers’ defenders to lose confidence or perspective.

“We’re not really looking for excuses but we have some new things going on that we’re trying to implement,” linebacker Vince Williams said. “We’re gonna jell. We’re gonna get better. Thank God this happened in the preseason, it still gives us time to eliminate some of those mistakes.

“A lot of this stuff is new. I think really we’re coming together, to be honest with you. That was just a bad game. I think when it’s all said and done we’re going to be pretty solid.”

Added safety Will Allen: “I think we’re on the right track. That’s what the preseason is for. We’re going against a different team, going against looks we haven’t seen. That’s what the preseason is for, to fine tune, make adjustments and learn from our mistakes.

“That’s what pro’s do.”

The Steelers hadn’t yet reviewed Saturday’s video when they met the media today.

Allen didn’t need a second look to dissect what transpired on Bills running back Fred Jackson’s cutback and 41-yard scamper to the Steelers’ 1-yard line on Buffalo’s first offensive snap.

“I take a side away,” Allen explained. “I took a side away and (cornerback) Will Gay got blocked and (Jackson) went around Will Gay. You hope that you can take one side away and somebody else can help you.

“That’s what happens sometimes. Sometimes players get blocked. Sometimes players get tripped up.”

The Bills’ second possession ended on a 67-yard touchdown pass to tight end Charles Clay over Williams and in front of safety Shamarko Thomas

“I take full responsibility for that,” Williams said. “I opened to the wrong side. The guy split the seam on the back side. I should have been over there.”

Added Thomas: “My fault, I gotta make the tackle. I can’t slip up on the play.”

And with that the Bills were on their way to 43 points and 542 total net yards, much of it gained against second- and third-team defenders but all of it costly.

“After the last performance I don’t feel like we had too much to look at that was encouraging,” linebacker James Harrison said. “It’s still the preseason but there are still things we’re going to need to fix and adjust to. We have another week and then we’ll roll into the season and see what happens.

“I think it’s a combination of everything, players, calls and the biggest thing is just execution of the defense and beating the man in front of you.”

to read rest of article:

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Defense-keeping-things-in-perspective/3278df02-c412-4a8a-b346-a904ac8e0a57

Accountability, its a start!

How sportswriters would have reported the Civil War

The Confederate Army continues to learn and adjust from the mistakes at Gettysburg and Vicksburg.

"I think we are on the right track. That's what the first few years of a war are for," said General Lee. "To fine tune and learn from our mistakes."

We're gonna jell, we're gonna get better," said President Davis. "Thank God this happened in Pennsylvania and Mississippi - it still gives us time to eliminate some of these mistakes."

Atlanta Dan wrote:

How sportswriters would have reported the Civil War

The Confederate Army continues to learn and adjust from the mistakes at Gettysburg and Vicksburg.

"I think we are on the right track.  That's what the first few years of a war are for," said General Lee.  "To fine tune and learn from our mistakes."

We're gonna jell, we're gonna get better," said President Davis.  "Thank God this happened in Pennsylvania and Mississippi - it still gives us time to eliminate some of these mistakes."

Amazing how a piss-poor performance by the entire defense can be so casually dismissed.

New defensive scheme a work in progress for Steelers

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2015/09/01/New-defensive-scheme-a-work-in-progress-for-Steelers/stories/201509010064

New iceberg avoidance system a work in progress for Titanic

From the Fititpaldo article, Harrison says it best.

Quote :

Perhaps veteran linebacker James Harrison summed up the defensive struggles best, saying, “I think it’s a combination of everything. It’s players. It’s calls. And the biggest thing is execution of the defense and beating the man in front of you.”

You can run any scheme you want. If your consistently beating the man in front of you, the scheme will work.

We are not consistently beating the man in front of us. In fact, we are getting beat more often than not.

From Ed Bouchette's blog today in the Post Gazette:

Quote :

People already are blaming Keith Butler for the poor defensive play in the preseason. Chuck Noll in his prime could not have done a better job with what they have had in the preseason.

Back in June / July, one sports analyst [I forget who said it] that said something to the extent if the some of the players do not develop further, this could easily be one of the worst defenses in the NFL...if not the worst. I don't think we are as bad as the Buffalo game, but that was an example of what could happen more times than not.

Full article from Bouchette here: http://sportsblogs.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers-steelers-blog

After reading Ed B. of the P-G today, add him to the list of those of us who see this preseason as bleak

Someone asked me for a surprise player from this summer for the Steelers. I was at a loss. Rookie Anthony Chickillo had a good first week and was made out to be the next Joey Porter but he now looks like he is practice squad material. There were no surprises from training camp or the preseason. No pleasant ones for them anyway. The surprises came in the other direction – that Cortez Allen has not asserted himself and that they needed to find two kickers, a backup quarterback and a veteran cornerback during the preseason.