Harrison’s hit on McCoy could fall into gray area of rulebook

Posted by Mike Florio

The concussion that Browns quarterback Colt McCoy apparently suffered on Thursday night came after Steelers linebacker James Harrison lowered the crown of his helmet into McCoy’s face.

Based on his history of fines for illegal hits, Harrison could be facing a six-figure fine or a suspension for his most recent transgression.

But Harrison believes it was a clean play. “From what I understand, once the quarterback leaves the pocket, he’s considered a runner,” Harrison said after the game, according to Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. “All the defenseless[ness] and liberties that a quarterback has in the pocket are gone and you can tackle him just as he’s a running back. The hit wasn’t late, so I really don’t understand why it was called.”

Technically, Harrison’s understanding is wrong. When the quarterback leaves the pocket, he loses the protection against low hits, and the one-step rule for roughing the passer evaporates. But all other protections apply, including the prohibition against blows to the head.

Harrison could still escape a nasty letter from the league office. The official rule book contains at Rule 12, Section 2, Article 13(8) a phrase that possibly creates a loophole for a helmet-to-helmet hit. If the quarterback is “attempting to advance the ball as a runner,” all protections for the passer apparently go away.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/09/harrisons-hit-on-mccoy-could-fall-into-gray-area-of-ruleboo/

Does anybody here honestly believe Harrison won't get a fine? :paranoid:

Buddha Bus wrote:

Does anybody here honestly believe Harrison won't get a fine? :paranoid:

Oh, he'll get fined. I just hope he doesn't get suspended.

Wallace108 wrote:

Buddha Bus wrote:

Does anybody here honestly believe Harrison won't get a fine? :paranoid:

Oh, he'll get fined. I just hope he doesn't get suspended.

If he gets suspended..... WE RIDE!!!! :regulator: :regulator: :regulator: :regulator: :regulator: :regulator: :regulator: :regulator: :regulator:

Yeah, I always understood it the way that Harrison said.

I thought they said something during the game about the line of scrimmage though, and that a QB has to be beyond the line of scrimmage to be considered a runner...not that he is out of the pocket.

Either way though, he was damn close to the line of scrimmage and out of the pocket. I'm sure he'll get a fine too, but a suspension would be absolutely ridiculous.

SteelCityMom wrote:

I thought they said something during the game about the line of scrimmage though, and that a QB has to be beyond the line of scrimmage to be considered a runner...not that he is out of the pocket.

That was my understanding as well ... he had to be beyond the line of scrimmage. Once he is, he's treated just like a runner unless he slides.

In Harrison's defense, McCoy was right at the line, and it looked like he was running.

Wallace108 wrote:

SteelCityMom wrote:

I thought they said something during the game about the line of scrimmage though, and that a QB has to be beyond the line of scrimmage to be considered a runner...not that he is out of the pocket.

That was my understanding as well ... he had to be beyond the line of scrimmage. Once he is, he's treated just like a runner unless he slides.

In Harrison's defense, McCoy was right at the line, and it looked like he was running.

I agree. Totally looked like he was running. I can see a flag if he was technically behind the line of scrimmage, but a fine and suspension would be bullshit.

Buddha Bus wrote:

Wallace108 wrote:

SteelCityMom wrote:

I thought they said something during the game about the line of scrimmage though, and that a QB has to be beyond the line of scrimmage to be considered a runner...not that he is out of the pocket.

That was my understanding as well ... he had to be beyond the line of scrimmage. Once he is, he's treated just like a runner unless he slides.

In Harrison's defense, McCoy was right at the line, and it looked like he was running.

I agree. Totally looked like he was running. I can see a flag if he was technically behind the line of scrimmage, but a fine and suspension would be bullshit.

I completely agree. Technically, it was a penalty and should have been flagged. But when it comes to fines, the NFL should take circumstances into consideration. If McCoy was a few more inches downfield, he would have been a runner. And you can make helmet-to-helmet contact with runners ... which makes absolutely no sense if it's all about "player safety." It's not like you can't get a concussion if you're running the ball as opposed to throwing or catching.

Wallace108 wrote:

Buddha Bus wrote:

Wallace108 wrote:

SteelCityMom wrote:

I thought they said something during the game about the line of scrimmage though, and that a QB has to be beyond the line of scrimmage to be considered a runner...not that he is out of the pocket.

That was my understanding as well ... he had to be beyond the line of scrimmage. Once he is, he's treated just like a runner unless he slides.

In Harrison's defense, McCoy was right at the line, and it looked like he was running.

I agree. Totally looked like he was running. I can see a flag if he was technically behind the line of scrimmage, but a fine and suspension would be bullshit.

I completely agree. Technically, it was a penalty and should have been flagged. But when it comes to fines, the NFL should take circumstances into consideration. If McCoy was a few more inches downfield, he would have been a runner. And you can make helmet-to-helmet contact with runners ... which makes absolutely no sense if it's all about "player safety." It's not like you can't get a concussion if you're running the ball as opposed to throwing or catching.

You're not saying that the commissioner's rules are arbitrary and nonsensical are you?

NFL OKs call against Harrison

The NFL has disagreed with Pro Bowl outside linebackers James Harrison:

The league said his penalty for a helmet-to-helmet hit on Browns quarterback Colt McCoy in the fourth quarter was the correct call. The hit left the quarterback with a concussion.

In a statement released Friday, the league said:

"When a passer is outside the pocket area as in the case of Cleveland Browns quarterback Colt McCoy last night, he is still afforded the protection of Rule 12, Section 2, Article 13 (3), which prohibits defensive players from using their helmet against a passer who is in a defenseless posture, including by forcibly hitting the passer's head or neck area with the helmet or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the passer by encircling or grasping him."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11344/1195955-66.stm?cmpid=steelers.xml#ixzz1g780bzkQ
---------------------------------------


I take exception to this: "which prohibits defensive players from using their helmet against a passer who is in a defenseless posture"

I don't think any of us can fully appreciate how fast the action is in the NFL. But we can at least imagine it. In the split second that Harrison decided to launch himself at McCoy, McCoy was in the process of running ... he most certainly was not in a "defenseless posture." McCoy saw Harrison and chucked the ball, thereby putting himself in a defenseless posture. But by that time, it was too late ... Harrison had already committed to making the hit. With the speed of the game, I doubt there's any way Harrison could have reacted to McCoy's sudden pass and pulled up.

They're just setting up for the inevitable fine and possible suspension. What a bunch of frickin' idiots.

Buddha Bus wrote:

Does anybody here honestly believe Harrison won't get a fine? :paranoid:

What he says about out of the pocket may be true but Helmet to Helmet is what it is. If it was anybody else hittin' Ben I'd like to see some justice. I think it was a bad hit. Just my opinion.

Suspension remains very possible for James Harrison

Posted by Mike Florio

Two weeks ago, the football-following public got a crash course on the procedures that apply to suspensions for on-field infractions, thanks to Lions defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh. And that knowledge could quickly be put to use this week, given the helmet-to-face hit applied by Steelers linebacker James Harrison on Browns quarterback Colt McCoy.

On Monday, league executives Ray Anderson and Merton Hanks will convene to determine the punishment, if any, to be imposed on Harrison for the hit. Given the league’s explanation of the relevant rules, Harrison’s belief that McCoy was acting as a runner likely will be undermined significantly by the fact that McCoy actually threw the ball.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/10/suspension-remains-very-possible-for-james-harrison/
--------------------------------------------------------------


Two things in that article irritate me.

1. Mentioning Harrison in the same context as Suh. What Suh did happened after the whistle. It had nothing to do with making a play. It was a deliberate attempt to inflict harm on another player. Harrison, on the other hand, was trying to make a football play.

2. Yes, by the definition of the rule, the hit should have been flagged because McCoy stopped running and threw the ball. But I think they should take intent into consideration. Harrison didn't see a sitting duck and try to nail him. McCoy was running. Everyone, including Harrison, thought he was going to continue to run. When Colt decided to chuck the ball, Harrison was already committed to making the hit. The game is played at too fast a speed to be able to recognize and react in that kind of situation. The hit deserved a flag, but not a fine (which we all know he'll get), and definitely not a suspension.

There is a huge difference between what Suh did and the HIT that Harrison had on McCoy. Suh took out his aggressions after the play in a manner that was unsportsmanlike and warranted suspension. James Harrison was in the field of play, between whistles, and was to hit a QB who was running but then decided it wasn't worth the pain so he pitched it to the WR on the wing.

If he gets suspended, it's proof that Der Kommish wants to make this a pansy league and we're all better off watching the LFL.

stlrtruck wrote:

There is a huge difference between what Suh did and the HIT that Harrison had on McCoy. Suh took out his aggressions after the play in a manner that was unsportsmanlike and warranted suspension. James Harrison was in the field of play, between whistles, and was to hit a QB who was running but then decided it wasn't worth the pain so he pitched it to the WR on the wing.

If he gets suspended, it's proof that Der Kommish wants to make this a pansy league and we're all better off watching the LFL.

Yep, I agree ... especially with the LFL part.

stlrtruck wrote:

There is a huge difference between what Suh did and the HIT that Harrison had on McCoy. Suh took out his aggressions after the play in a manner that was unsportsmanlike and warranted suspension. James Harrison was in the field of play, between whistles, and was to hit a QB who was running but then decided it wasn't worth the pain so he pitched it to the WR on the wing.

If he gets suspended, it's proof that Der Kommish wants to make this a pansy league and we're all better off watching the LFL.

While I agree that Goodell has it in for Harrison and he is nothing like Suh, I have to disagree with what you guys are saying. Here's why.

Mike Webster made it to the HOF. A monumental task for an O-lineman. He was IMHO the best to ever play that position to date. At one time he was homeless and lost because of his illness. An illness brought on by Head trama.
Did this happen because he was 'head slapped' repeatedly or did he dish out some. Listen, I know this isn't about player safety. Not with Goodell in charge. Google Justin Strelzcek and see how his life ended. Lyle Alzedo. All brain related.

What I'm saying is helmet to helmet is not good for the league. Sure McCoy chickened out at the last minute and created the "grey area" but even if he kept the ball James planted his helmet. That's all I'm sayin'. I felt the same way about Goodell making this a pansy league and I still want him shot just because he's everything shitty about the NFL right now but watching the way Troy plays now knowing that 10 years after he retires (if I'm still around) I have to hear a sad story about him slobbering all over his self in a nursing because the league did nothing to help him after his playing days ended. I'm not ashamed to say I cried when I heard about Mike Webster's death knowing that the league did nothing.It was his old team mates that came to his rescue but it still killed him.

I like slober knockers as Madden puts it. Just not the ones that cause a player to miss 1-3 or more games because he can't spell him name right now.

DRIVE THROUGH THE TACKLE? Absolutely just don't take his head off.For what it's worth ,,,,,

solardave wrote:

stlrtruck wrote:

There is a huge difference between what Suh did and the HIT that Harrison had on McCoy. Suh took out his aggressions after the play in a manner that was unsportsmanlike and warranted suspension. James Harrison was in the field of play, between whistles, and was to hit a QB who was running but then decided it wasn't worth the pain so he pitched it to the WR on the wing.

If he gets suspended, it's proof that Der Kommish wants to make this a pansy league and we're all better off watching the LFL.

While I agree that Goodell has it in for Harrison and he is nothing like Suh, I have to disagree with what you guys are saying. Here's why.

Mike Webster made it to the HOF. A monumental task for an O-lineman. He was IMHO the best to ever play that position to date. At one time he was homeless and lost because of his illness. An illness brought on by Head trama.
Did this happen because he was 'head slapped' repeatedly or did he dish out some. Listen, I know this isn't about player safety. Not with Goodell in charge. Google Justin Strelzcek and see how his life ended. Lyle Alzedo. All brain related.

What I'm saying is helmet to helmet is not good for the league. Sure McCoy chickened out at the last minute and created the "grey area" but even if he kept the ball James planted his helmet. That's all I'm sayin'. I felt the same way about Goodell making this a pansy league and I still want him shot just because he's everything shitty about the NFL right now but watching the way Troy plays now knowing that 10 years after he retires (if I'm still around) I have to hear a sad story about him slobbering all over his self in a nursing because the league did nothing to help him after his playing days ended. I'm not ashamed to say I cried when I heard about Mike Webster's death knowing that the league did nothing.It was his old team mates that came to his rescue but it still killed him.

I like slober knockers as Madden puts it. Just not the ones that cause a player to miss 1-3 or more games because he can't spell him name right now.

DRIVE THROUGH THE TACKLE? Absolutely just don't take his head off.For what it's worth ,,,,,

I understand what you're saying about the helmet to helmet hits. And I agree, to a point. There is only so much safety you can put in to the rules before you completely change the game. And even Troy has said it that they knew the risks when they signed up to play the game. Yes it's faster, and athletes are stronger, but you can't completely eliminate the risk. On top of the fact, that the rules give too much to the offensive player and all the responsibility of the hitting on the defense player, motion be damned.

I don't think James should have launched himself, he could have aimed for the chest, drove through McCoy (which McCoy probably would have still had a concussion from bouncing off the ground), and tackled him without hitting him in the chest, chin, and helmet.

stlrtruck wrote:

solardave wrote:

stlrtruck wrote:

There is a huge difference between what Suh did and the HIT that Harrison had on McCoy. Suh took out his aggressions after the play in a manner that was unsportsmanlike and warranted suspension. James Harrison was in the field of play, between whistles, and was to hit a QB who was running but then decided it wasn't worth the pain so he pitched it to the WR on the wing.

If he gets suspended, it's proof that Der Kommish wants to make this a pansy league and we're all better off watching the LFL.

While I agree that Goodell has it in for Harrison and he is nothing like Suh, I have to disagree with what you guys are saying. Here's why.

Mike Webster made it to the HOF. A monumental task for an O-lineman. He was IMHO the best to ever play that position to date. At one time he was homeless and lost because of his illness. An illness brought on by Head trama.
Did this happen because he was 'head slapped' repeatedly or did he dish out some. Listen, I know this isn't about player safety. Not with Goodell in charge. Google Justin Strelzcek and see how his life ended. Lyle Alzedo. All brain related.

What I'm saying is helmet to helmet is not good for the league. Sure McCoy chickened out at the last minute and created the "grey area" but even if he kept the ball James planted his helmet. That's all I'm sayin'. I felt the same way about Goodell making this a pansy league and I still want him shot just because he's everything shitty about the NFL right now but watching the way Troy plays now knowing that 10 years after he retires (if I'm still around) I have to hear a sad story about him slobbering all over his self in a nursing because the league did nothing to help him after his playing days ended. I'm not ashamed to say I cried when I heard about Mike Webster's death knowing that the league did nothing.It was his old team mates that came to his rescue but it still killed him.

I like slober knockers as Madden puts it. Just not the ones that cause a player to miss 1-3 or more games because he can't spell him name right now.

DRIVE THROUGH THE TACKLE? Absolutely just don't take his head off.For what it's worth ,,,,,

I understand what you're saying about the helmet to helmet hits. And I agree, to a point. There is only so much safety you can put in to the rules before you completely change the game. And even Troy has said it that they knew the risks when they signed up to play the game. Yes it's faster, and athletes are stronger, but you can't completely eliminate the risk. On top of the fact, that the rules give too much to the offensive player and all the responsibility of the hitting on the defense player, motion be damned.

I don't think James should have launched himself, he could have aimed for the chest, drove through McCoy (which McCoy probably would have still had a concussion from bouncing off the ground), and tackled him without hitting him in the chest, chin, and helmet.

And that's really all I'm saying. I know the game is faster and there is less time to react. It takes a split second to say to yourself ah shit he got rid of it so I better lower my angle. Can it be done every time? NO!!! But Harrison doesn't seem to care if it can or not. I don't know if he can lesson his impact.It's one thing to want to be a player that is feared, another to want to do permanent damage and lately he looks like (I did say looks like) that's what he's trying to do. And I absolutely agree the rules favor offense (except where Ben is concerned they constantly look the other way).
I loved watching our D in the 70's. Joe Greene saying "from now on NO one gets past the 50 yard line!!!" Hell that was great. The thing about "old" Steelers is they don't disappear after they retire. They blend into the community and maybe this is the one area (namely head hunting) that needs to be taken seriously.

solardave wrote:

And that's really all I'm saying. I know the game is faster and there is less time to react. It takes a split second to say to yourself ah shit he got rid of it so I better lower my angle. Can it be done every time? NO!!! But Harrison doesn't seem to care if it can or not. I don't know if he can lesson his impact.It's one thing to want to be a player that is feared, another to want to do permanent damage and lately he looks like (I did say looks like) that's what he's trying to do. And I absolutely agree the rules favor offense (except where Ben is concerned they constantly look the other way).
I loved watching our D in the 70's. Joe Greene saying "from now on NO one gets past the 50 yard line!!!" Hell that was great. The thing about "old" Steelers is they don't disappear after they retire. They blend into the community and maybe this is the one area (namely head hunting) that needs to be taken seriously.

I beg to differ that Harrison looks like he doesn't care or wants to do permanent damage. I've noticed a significant change in his hits this year as opposed to last. He has been trying to comply with the new rules. On several occasions I've seen him consciously lead with his shoulder or pull up at times that he wouldn't have previously. He's trying. As has been stated, though, when a QB leaves the pocket and crosses the line of scrimmage as a runner, he loses the no helmet-to-helmet protection. It certainly looked like McCoy was running with it and James anticipated him crossing the line as a runner, but Colt saw it at the last millisecond and pulled up.

I agree with the penalty being called on a technicality, but the thought of a fine or suspension and calls of Harrison being a dirty player taking a cheap shot are ridiculous. He couldn't have avoided what was set in motion and, by the letter of the rules and what Harrison anticipated, he would have been delivering a legal hit if McCoy wouldn't have pulled up and thrown at the last second.

It's true that Harrison wants to deliver devastating hits and play hard hitting football, but I think it's unfair to call him dirty or say he doesn't care if he does permanent damage. If he didn't care, then why did he go over to McCoy out of bounds when he returned and appear to ask if he was OK and/or say he was sorry?

solardave wrote:

stlrtruck wrote:

There is a huge difference between what Suh did and the HIT that Harrison had on McCoy. Suh took out his aggressions after the play in a manner that was unsportsmanlike and warranted suspension. James Harrison was in the field of play, between whistles, and was to hit a QB who was running but then decided it wasn't worth the pain so he pitched it to the WR on the wing.

If he gets suspended, it's proof that Der Kommish wants to make this a pansy league and we're all better off watching the LFL.

While I agree that Goodell has it in for Harrison and he is nothing like Suh, I have to disagree with what you guys are saying. Here's why.

Mike Webster made it to the HOF. A monumental task for an O-lineman. He was IMHO the best to ever play that position to date. At one time he was homeless and lost because of his illness. An illness brought on by Head trama.
Did this happen because he was 'head slapped' repeatedly or did he dish out some. Listen, I know this isn't about player safety. Not with Goodell in charge. Google Justin Strelzcek and see how his life ended. Lyle Alzedo. All brain related.

What I'm saying is helmet to helmet is not good for the league. Sure McCoy chickened out at the last minute and created the "grey area" but even if he kept the ball James planted his helmet. That's all I'm sayin'. I felt the same way about Goodell making this a pansy league and I still want him shot just because he's everything shitty about the NFL right now but watching the way Troy plays now knowing that 10 years after he retires (if I'm still around) I have to hear a sad story about him slobbering all over his self in a nursing because the league did nothing to help him after his playing days ended. I'm not ashamed to say I cried when I heard about Mike Webster's death knowing that the league did nothing.It was his old team mates that came to his rescue but it still killed him.

I like slober knockers as Madden puts it. Just not the ones that cause a player to miss 1-3 or more games because he can't spell him name right now.

DRIVE THROUGH THE TACKLE? Absolutely just don't take his head off.For what it's worth ,,,,,

I get what you're saying, Dave, and I don't completely disagree. I hate to hear about players like Webster. But I don't have quite as much sympathy only because they're doing what they want to do. As Troy and other players have said ... they knew what they were signing up for. When someone joins the military, or becomes a police officer or fireman, they do so knowing that their jobs could get them seriously hurt, or even killed. But they do it. And thank God there are people who are willing to risk their lives to help protect us. I know NFL players aren't putting their lives on the line to protect us, but there's still a lot of risk in what they do. They know that going in, and they choose to do it. And unlike soldiers, police officers, and firemen, NFL players get paid millions for it.

With that said, I think the league should take reasonable steps to protect the players as best they can. I agree that helmet-to-helmet hits are a problem, but it's impossible to eliminate them. If the NFL can determine that a player deliberately did something to try to injure another player, I have no problem with a fine and suspension. But they can't eliminate helmet-to-helmet hits with all these fines. Football is a dangerous game, and I don't agree with players being fined for simply trying to make a play.

If the NFL truly cared about player safety, they would be working harder to improve the equipment. There's better equipment out there, but I guess if it's not made by one of their sponsors or a company they have a partnership with, you won't see it in the NFL. It's all about money.

I posted this in the NFL forum, but it's relevant to this discussion. There's a chiropractor who lives in my area who invented padding that goes on the outside of helmets. They're called Shockstrips. They were first used by younger kids, now a lot of high school teams in this area use them. Kids have said they notice a HUGE difference when taking a hit to the helmet. Independent testing at Wayne State University and ICS Laboratories in Cleveland did studies and found that the pads decreased the probability of brain injury or concussion by as much as 28 percent. They cost only $75, testing found that they work, players say they notice a difference, and I know for a fact that the NFL knows about them. But they're not made by Nike or Reebok or whoever the NFL partners with. Rather than fining players, the NFL should be improving their equipment. But I'm afraid it's all about money.

Here's the link to Shockstrips. http://shockstrip.com/

Wallace108 wrote:

solardave wrote:

stlrtruck wrote:

There is a huge difference between what Suh did and the HIT that Harrison had on McCoy. Suh took out his aggressions after the play in a manner that was unsportsmanlike and warranted suspension. James Harrison was in the field of play, between whistles, and was to hit a QB who was running but then decided it wasn't worth the pain so he pitched it to the WR on the wing.

If he gets suspended, it's proof that Der Kommish wants to make this a pansy league and we're all better off watching the LFL.

While I agree that Goodell has it in for Harrison and he is nothing like Suh, I have to disagree with what you guys are saying. Here's why.

Mike Webster made it to the HOF. A monumental task for an O-lineman. He was IMHO the best to ever play that position to date. At one time he was homeless and lost because of his illness. An illness brought on by Head trama.
Did this happen because he was 'head slapped' repeatedly or did he dish out some. Listen, I know this isn't about player safety. Not with Goodell in charge. Google Justin Strelzcek and see how his life ended. Lyle Alzedo. All brain related.

What I'm saying is helmet to helmet is not good for the league. Sure McCoy chickened out at the last minute and created the "grey area" but even if he kept the ball James planted his helmet. That's all I'm sayin'. I felt the same way about Goodell making this a pansy league and I still want him shot just because he's everything shitty about the NFL right now but watching the way Troy plays now knowing that 10 years after he retires (if I'm still around) I have to hear a sad story about him slobbering all over his self in a nursing because the league did nothing to help him after his playing days ended. I'm not ashamed to say I cried when I heard about Mike Webster's death knowing that the league did nothing.It was his old team mates that came to his rescue but it still killed him.

I like slober knockers as Madden puts it. Just not the ones that cause a player to miss 1-3 or more games because he can't spell him name right now.

DRIVE THROUGH THE TACKLE? Absolutely just don't take his head off.For what it's worth ,,,,,

I get what you're saying, Dave, and I don't completely disagree. I hate to hear about players like Webster. But I don't have quite as much sympathy only because they're doing what they want to do. As Troy and other players have said ... they knew what they were signing up for. When someone joins the military, or becomes a police officer or fireman, they do so knowing that their jobs could get them seriously hurt, or even killed. But they do it. And thank God there are people who are willing to risk their lives to help protect us. I know NFL players aren't putting their lives on the line to protect us, but there's still a lot of risk in what they do. They know that going in, and they choose to do it. And unlike soldiers, police officers, and firemen, NFL players get paid millions for it.

With that said, I think the league should take reasonable steps to protect the players as best they can. I agree that helmet-to-helmet hits are a problem, but it's impossible to eliminate them. If the NFL can determine that a player deliberately did something to try to injure another player, I have no problem with a fine and suspension. But they can't eliminate helmet-to-helmet hits with all these fines. Football is a dangerous game, and I don't agree with players being fined for simply trying to make a play.

If the NFL truly cared about player safety, they would be working harder to improve the equipment. There's better equipment out there, but I guess if it's not made by one of their sponsors or a company they have a partnership with, you won't see it in the NFL. It's all about money.

I posted this in the NFL forum, but it's relevant to this discussion. There's a chiropractor who lives in my area who invented padding that goes on the outside of helmets. They're called Shockstrips. They were first used by younger kids, now a lot of high school teams in this area use them. Kids have said they notice a HUGE difference when taking a hit to the helmet. Independent testing at Wayne State University and ICS Laboratories in Cleveland did studies and found that the pads decreased the probability of brain injury or concussion by as much as 28 percent. They cost only $75, testing found that they work, players say they notice a difference, and I know for a fact that the NFL knows about them. But they're not made by Nike or Reebok or whoever the NFL partners with. Rather than fining players, the NFL should be improving their equipment. But I'm afraid it's all about money.

Here's the link to Shockstrips. http://shockstrip.com/

You know what. I can't find a single point you made that I can argue against (except the one about our military knowing what they were walking into, but that's a political thing. )Especially the fact that it's all about the money.Auto makers are constantly trying to make cars safer. They walk the talk. The league talks the talk but there is an old saying and it pertains to Goodell and the entire ownership. the saying goes "what your doing speaks SO loud that I Can't hear what you're saying!!!"

solardave wrote:

You know what. I can't find a single point you made that I can argue against (except the one about our military knowing what they were walking into, but that's a political thing. )Especially the fact that it's all about the money.Auto makers are constantly trying to make cars safer. They walk the talk. The league talks the talk but there is an old saying and it pertains to Goodell and the entire ownership. the saying goes "what your doing speaks SO loud that I Can't hear what you're saying!!!"

That's a great quote, and 100 percent accurate.
Hines Ward was spot on when he called Goodell and the NFL hypocrites last year. Look at the helmet-to-helmet hit Mendy took against the Browns. If the NFL cared about player safety, why shouldn't that hit draw a penalty and fine? Goodell can say whatever he wants, but the NFL doesn't care about protecting the players. They care about protecting their investments. Running backs like Mendy are a dime a dozen. QBs are much harder to replace.

Wallace108 wrote:

solardave wrote:

You know what. I can't find a single point you made that I can argue against (except the one about our military knowing what they were walking into, but that's a political thing. )Especially the fact that it's all about the money.Auto makers are constantly trying to make cars safer. They walk the talk. The league talks the talk but there is an old saying and it pertains to Goodell and the entire ownership. the saying goes "what your doing speaks SO loud that I Can't hear what you're saying!!!"

That's a great quote, and 100 percent accurate.
Hines Ward was spot on when he called Goodell and the NFL hypocrites last year. Look at the helmet-to-helmet hit Mendy took against the Browns. If the NFL cared about player safety, why shouldn't that hit draw a penalty and fine? Goodell can say whatever he wants, but the NFL doesn't care about protecting the players. They care about protecting their investments. Running backs like Mendy are a dime a dozen. QBs are much harder to replace.

You're right about RBs and it seems that guys like Heath or Hines don't get calls either. If you're a tough guy you get treated different or maybe it's just if you're a Steeler and your tough you get no-calls a lot. How many times is Ben hit late and there's no call.

I don't know what the answer is but isn't Riddell the helmet the NFL uses? They are running an add campaign right now about bigger,faster,stronger.....Safer. It makes me wonder why they haven't approached the Chiropractor and cut a deal to impliment the Shock strips in their so-called safety. I mean 38% can not be ignored. Well, factor in the Douchebag Goodell and they can look anywhere they want.

Here's another idea. Take the fine money, hire an independent company to work on making safer equipment. Tell Nike and Reebok if they want their contracts to fall in line with what this company suggests. Show the players and the fans they really do care.

Next change the helmet to helmet rule. Make it similar to roughing/running into the kicker. Roughing being clear intent that draws a fine but running into does not. 5 yards for running into and 15 for roughing.

Buddha Bus wrote:

solardave wrote:

And that's really all I'm saying. I know the game is faster and there is less time to react. It takes a split second to say to yourself ah shit he got rid of it so I better lower my angle. Can it be done every time? NO!!! But Harrison doesn't seem to care if it can or not. I don't know if he can lesson his impact.It's one thing to want to be a player that is feared, another to want to do permanent damage and lately he looks like (I did say looks like) that's what he's trying to do. And I absolutely agree the rules favor offense (except where Ben is concerned they constantly look the other way).
I loved watching our D in the 70's. Joe Greene saying "from now on NO one gets past the 50 yard line!!!" Hell that was great. The thing about "old" Steelers is they don't disappear after they retire. They blend into the community and maybe this is the one area (namely head hunting) that needs to be taken seriously.

I beg to differ that Harrison looks like he doesn't care or wants to do permanent damage. I've noticed a significant change in his hits this year as opposed to last. He has been trying to comply with the new rules. On several occasions I've seen him consciously lead with his shoulder or pull up at times that he wouldn't have previously. He's trying. As has been stated, though, when a QB leaves the pocket and crosses the line of scrimmage as a runner, he loses the no helmet-to-helmet protection. It certainly looked like McCoy was running with it and James anticipated him crossing the line as a runner, but Colt saw it at the last millisecond and pulled up.

I agree with the penalty being called on a technicality, but the thought of a fine or suspension and calls of Harrison being a dirty player taking a cheap shot are ridiculous. He couldn't have avoided what was set in motion and, by the letter of the rules and what Harrison anticipated, he would have been delivering a legal hit if McCoy wouldn't have pulled up and thrown at the last second.

It's true that Harrison wants to deliver devastating hits and play hard hitting football, but I think it's unfair to call him dirty or say he doesn't care if he does permanent damage. If he didn't care, then why did he go over to McCoy out of bounds when he returned and appear to ask if he was OK and/or say he was sorry?

I'm not saying he's dirty. I don't think that. I just thought he used poor judgement on this particular play. I've seen him pull up a few times this year but let's face it. He under the magnifying glass and proably will be as long as Dickhead reigns. I also believe if the Steelers waived him today and he signed with Cleveland he'd probably be left alone. I don't believe it's Harrison. He's an agressive old school LB playing for the team he hates the most.