Ben and the use of audibles

I've brought up the use of Ben's audibles in the past and have used it in my defense of Bruce Arians. Frequently this has come across as Do you know what play was initially called? or Did Ben call an audible?. Two days ago I sent the following email to the guys that run the terrible podcast. YOu can hear their response at around the 18 minute mark.

Hello,

I was curious if y'all could shed some light on the use of audibles in the Steelers offense. Is a frequent occurence? A point of contention between Arians and Ben? My apologies if this has already been addressed.

Thanks for you time

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/01/the-terrible-podcast-steelers-beat-writer-scott-brown-episode/

You'll get no argument from me here. You've been banging that drum for a while, and I agree with you now. But the response to your question was that Arians gives Ben a lot of control to change plays. And it could very well be the case that most times when we blame Arians for bad play calls, it was Ben who changed the play. But since most of us agree that our offense isn't getting the job done, something has to change. Maybe Arians needs to take some of that control away from Ben. If he doesn't want to do it, or if he's too buddy-buddy with him to do it, then we need a new OC who will get Ben under control. It's like the analogy I gave you before ... if I see a kid running around a store knocking things off shelves, I don't blame the kid ... I blame the parents.

One thing though ... I don't think it's Ben's decision to go with an empty backfield on 3rd and 1.

They also mentioned a remark that stated that Ben is in the prime of his career, and you cannot change offensive coordinators on him now. How many different OCs has Brady had? What about Brees? They seem to be doing just fine. I agree that you wouldn't want to make a change in the middle of a season, but I disagree that making a change now would be detrimental to Ben. He might not like it because of his relationship with Arians, but I think it would be better for him.

IF you listen to the podcast they referenced an interview with Charlie Batch, here it is. I found the stuff about what was done with the playbook in 2007 particularly interesting. Once again I can't copy and paste anything off that site.


http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/01/charlie-batch-talks-about-future-of-hines-ward-bruce-arians-dennis-dixon/

I'm not discounting anything they said. I just asked the question and put their responses out there for all to see or hear.

Quote :

They also mentioned a remark that stated that Ben is in the prime of his career, and you cannot change offensive coordinators on him now. How many different OCs has Brady had? What about Brees? They seem to be doing just fine. I agree that you wouldn't want to make a change in the middle of a season, I disagree that making a change would be detrimental to Ben. He might not like because of his relationship with Arians, but I think it would be better for him.

I believe they were actually quoting Batch there. Check my previous post.

supytalpeht wrote:

I'm not discounting anything they said. I just asked the question and put their responses out there for all to see or hear.

Quote :

They also mentioned a remark that stated that Ben is in the prime of his career, and you cannot change offensive coordinators on him now. How many different OCs has Brady had? What about Brees? They seem to be doing just fine. I agree that you wouldn't want to make a change in the middle of a season, I disagree that making a change would be detrimental to Ben. He might not like because of his relationship with Arians, but I think it would be better for him.

I believe they were actually quoting Batch there. Check my previous post.

Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you ... I'm disagreeing with whoever answered your question.

Wallace108 wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

I'm not discounting anything they said. I just asked the question and put their responses out there for all to see or hear.

Quote :

They also mentioned a remark that stated that Ben is in the prime of his career, and you cannot change offensive coordinators on him now. How many different OCs has Brady had? What about Brees? They seem to be doing just fine. I agree that you wouldn't want to make a change in the middle of a season, I disagree that making a change would be detrimental to Ben. He might not like because of his relationship with Arians, but I think it would be better for him.

I believe they were actually quoting Batch there. Check my previous post.

Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you ... I'm disagreeing with whoever answered your question.

I was just happy they addressed my questions. Although they butchered my name to all hell.

How does one tell the difference between an audiable and a regular play? I have never grasped that concept. Sorry! If you could explain it, that would help a great deal.

Also what in the heck is a double cadence?

Thanks!!

Here's you're regular play:
2nd and 7 and Bruce Arians calls a run off tackle to the right

Here's you're audible:
Bruce Arians calls in the play above, but Ben notices (or thinks) that the LB to the right is on a run blitz so he calls out a few words which means he's changing the play. For sake of this conversation, let's say he audibles the words Mickey Mouse and Goofy. To the WRs it means run a patter, specifically to Hines Ward, run a slant just beyond the blitzing LB, and to the offensive line it means we are no longer running, but now you must pass block.

I don't know what they mean by double cadence.


But like Wally said, if Ben is calling audibles, then Bruce needs to reign him back in and gain more control. While I agree that you don't need to go through multiple OC's in the coming years, I think Ben and the Steelers offense would benefit from a new, not so buddy-buddy, leader running the offense.

Quote :

But like Wally said, if Ben is calling audibles, then Bruce needs to reign him back in and gain more control.

I don't understand this line of thinking. Why reign in Ben for using a tool that was given to him as part of the offense? The example you gave illustrates that perfectly. Run off rt tackle called-> Run blitz identified->Audible to pass

Assuming that the pass is completed then you're catching them at a disadvantage. WHile ignoring the run blitz adn running straight at it has the opposite effect and is playing into their hands.

This is my understandign of a double cadence, but I never played qb and didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night. Basically the QB works through his cadence 2x trying to get the defense to show blitzes, possibly get them to jump offside. Assuming that my understand isn't completely off a really basic example would be something like the following. A normal cadence blue, set, huh, huh, snap. On a double cadence instead of snapping the football after the 2nd huh you start he cadence over again at blue. Defenders are supposed to move when the ball moves, occasionally you'll catch a defender that is reacting ot the cadence and not movement.

supytalpeht wrote:

Quote :

But like Wally said, if Ben is calling audibles, then Bruce needs to reign him back in and gain more control.

I don't understand this line of thinking. Why reign in Ben for using a tool that was given to him as part of the offense? The example you gave illustrates that perfectly. Run off rt tackle called-> Run blitz identified->Audible to pass

Assuming that the pass is completed then you're catching them at a disadvantage. WHile ignoring the run blitz adn running straight at it has the opposite effect and is playing into their hands.

The problem is that Ben doesn't typically take the underneath WR, or typically avoids the hot read in order to get the 'long ball'. I guess the problem, at least from the media know it alls, is that Ben doesn't read the defense well and doesn't react as well, thus holding on to the ball too long, looking for plays that aren't necessarily there, then throwing in to double, sometimes triple coverage. Arians needs to reign Ben in to a zone where he's got to be able to read and react to defenses, and not play sandlot. That will keep Ben upright, and our offense on the field - and hopefully scoring TDs, not FGs (one reason we lost the game in Denver).

stlrtruck wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

Quote :

But like Wally said, if Ben is calling audibles, then Bruce needs to reign him back in and gain more control.

I don't understand this line of thinking. Why reign in Ben for using a tool that was given to him as part of the offense? The example you gave illustrates that perfectly. Run off rt tackle called-> Run blitz identified->Audible to pass

Assuming that the pass is completed then you're catching them at a disadvantage. WHile ignoring the run blitz adn running straight at it has the opposite effect and is playing into their hands.

The problem is that Ben doesn't typically take the underneath WR, or typically avoids the hot read in order to get the 'long ball'. I guess the problem, at least from the media know it alls, is that Ben doesn't read the defense well and doesn't react as well, thus holding on to the ball too long, looking for plays that aren't necessarily there, then throwing in to double, sometimes triple coverage. Arians needs to reign Ben in to a zone where he's got to be able to read and react to defenses, and not play sandlot. That will keep Ben upright, and our offense on the field - and hopefully scoring TDs, not FGs (one reason we lost the game in Denver).

Ben's always been eager to make big plays happen. His entire career he's been that way, and now, he's got some weapons at his disposal. He's simply just too excited, as if he's reliving Christmas every Sunday. When he settles down and patience kicks in, he makes those plays happen. This is why he's so clutch in late-game situations. It's because he know's he needs to settle down and take it one play at a time.

bayz101 wrote:

stlrtruck wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

Quote :

But like Wally said, if Ben is calling audibles, then Bruce needs to reign him back in and gain more control.

I don't understand this line of thinking. Why reign in Ben for using a tool that was given to him as part of the offense? The example you gave illustrates that perfectly. Run off rt tackle called-> Run blitz identified->Audible to pass

Assuming that the pass is completed then you're catching them at a disadvantage. WHile ignoring the run blitz adn running straight at it has the opposite effect and is playing into their hands.

The problem is that Ben doesn't typically take the underneath WR, or typically avoids the hot read in order to get the 'long ball'. I guess the problem, at least from the media know it alls, is that Ben doesn't read the defense well and doesn't react as well, thus holding on to the ball too long, looking for plays that aren't necessarily there, then throwing in to double, sometimes triple coverage. Arians needs to reign Ben in to a zone where he's got to be able to read and react to defenses, and not play sandlot. That will keep Ben upright, and our offense on the field - and hopefully scoring TDs, not FGs (one reason we lost the game in Denver).

Ben's always been eager to make big plays happen. His entire career he's been that way, and now, he's got some weapons at his disposal. He's simply just too excited, as if he's reliving Christmas every Sunday. When he settles down and patience kicks in, he makes those plays happen. This is why he's so clutch in late-game situations. It's because he know's he needs to settle down and take it one play at a time.

Good analysis, and the only thing I'll add to it, is that he's got to remember he can't play with one toy all the time. He needs to use all his toys. It's like building Voltron - individually they all have unique powers, but when you put them together all their strengths are combined in to one AWESOME EXHIBIT! Can you imagine what our offense would be like if Ben could put their strengths together consistently.

stlrtruck wrote:

he's got to remember he can't play with one toy all the time. He needs to use all his toys.

That's a rather good point. Maybe it's just my perception, but it seems like one game Miller is huge. Next game Wallace is huge. Next game Brown is huge. They never seem to have great games all on the same day. It's like Ben has his favorite target for that day, and that's who he's throwing to the majority of the time ... even if he has to force it into double coverage. After Brown's emergence, it seemed he started looking for him more than Wallace. Like I said though, that's probably just my perception.

oh my lord now we're freaking transformers

supytalpeht wrote:

oh my lord now we're freaking transformers

Please don't confuse Voltron with Transformers. You clearly don't know your 80s cartoons.

Wallace108 wrote:

stlrtruck wrote:

he's got to remember he can't play with one toy all the time. He needs to use all his toys.

That's a rather good point. Maybe it's just my perception, but it seems like one game Miller is huge. Next game Wallace is huge. Next game Brown is huge. They never seem to have great games all on the same day. It's like Ben has his favorite target for that day, and that's who he's throwing to the majority of the time ... even if he has to force it into double coverage. After Brown's emergence, it seemed he started looking for him more than Wallace. Like I said though, that's probably just my perception.

I think opposing defenses have more to do with that than anything else. Against teams with good pass rushers Heath is consistently stuck at the line of scrimmage to help block, some teams try to take away Wallace, others focus a bit more on Brown...
I think what the majority of us want to see is Ben getting rid of the football faster. Snap the football 1,2,3 it's not there hit Mendy or Redman and move on. The reason why the west coast or dink and dunk is so effective is they're high percentage passes while running around behind the los and throwing 30-40 yards down field is a low percentage play and no way to sustain drives. Unless of course your tim fucking tebow.

Wallace108 wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

oh my lord now we're freaking transformers

Please don't confuse Voltron with Transformers. You clearly don't know your 80s cartoons.

Well then they didn't have a movie with Megan Fox so they clearly suck.

stlrtruck wrote:

bayz101 wrote:

stlrtruck wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

Quote :

But like Wally said, if Ben is calling audibles, then Bruce needs to reign him back in and gain more control.

I don't understand this line of thinking. Why reign in Ben for using a tool that was given to him as part of the offense? The example you gave illustrates that perfectly. Run off rt tackle called-> Run blitz identified->Audible to pass

Assuming that the pass is completed then you're catching them at a disadvantage. WHile ignoring the run blitz adn running straight at it has the opposite effect and is playing into their hands.

The problem is that Ben doesn't typically take the underneath WR, or typically avoids the hot read in order to get the 'long ball'. I guess the problem, at least from the media know it alls, is that Ben doesn't read the defense well and doesn't react as well, thus holding on to the ball too long, looking for plays that aren't necessarily there, then throwing in to double, sometimes triple coverage. Arians needs to reign Ben in to a zone where he's got to be able to read and react to defenses, and not play sandlot. That will keep Ben upright, and our offense on the field - and hopefully scoring TDs, not FGs (one reason we lost the game in Denver).

Ben's always been eager to make big plays happen. His entire career he's been that way, and now, he's got some weapons at his disposal. He's simply just too excited, as if he's reliving Christmas every Sunday. When he settles down and patience kicks in, he makes those plays happen. This is why he's so clutch in late-game situations. It's because he know's he needs to settle down and take it one play at a time.

Good analysis, and the only thing I'll add to it, is that he's got to remember he can't play with one toy all the time. He needs to use all his toys. It's like building Voltron - individually they all have unique powers, but when you put them together all their strengths are combined in to one AWESOME EXHIBIT! Can you imagine what our offense would be like if Ben could put their strengths together consistently.

It's hard for me to tell if that's Ben making those decisions, to be honest. I recall him throwing the ball Heath's way several times against the Pats, and it's hard for me to believe it was him deciding to throw the ball his way, that many times. He didn't throw to Heath like that before that game, and he didn't do that after. It seems to me it's a gameplan going in, and Ben's simply executing it. I'ts scary for me to think that Arians is in such control of this offense, even when it comes to where the ball's going to be thrown, but it does look that way at times.

But then I've seen Ben calls some terrible audibles over the years, so it's really hard to determine what's really going on.

please don't turn into an arians sucks thread
please don't turn into an arians sucks thread
please don't turn into an arians sucks thread

Beetlejuice
Beetlejuice
Beetlejuice

supytalpeht wrote:

please don't turn into an arians sucks thread
please don't turn into an arians sucks thread
please don't turn into an arians sucks thread

Beetlejuice
Beetlejuice
Beetlejuice

Arians sucks arians sucks arians sucks

bayz101 wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

please don't turn into an arians sucks thread
please don't turn into an arians sucks thread
please don't turn into an arians sucks thread

Beetlejuice
Beetlejuice
Beetlejuice

Arians sucks arians sucks arians sucks

fucker

supytalpeht wrote:

please don't turn into an arians sucks thread
please don't turn into an arians sucks thread
please don't turn into an arians sucks thread

Beetlejuice
Beetlejuice
Beetlejuice

I've already created that thread.

stlrtruck wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

please don't turn into an arians sucks thread
please don't turn into an arians sucks thread
please don't turn into an arians sucks thread

Beetlejuice
Beetlejuice
Beetlejuice

I've already created that thread.

No, that's the Fire Arians thread. I don't believe we have an Arians Sucks thread yet.











(and yes ... that's a joke. We don't need an Arians Sucks thread. I know a few of you are probably already thinking it. ).