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 TPOP: A Very Painful Loss

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teegre

teegre


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PostSubject: TPOP: A Very Painful Loss    TPOP:  A Very Painful Loss   EmptyWed Dec 30, 2015 10:21 am

Here is my reaction to yesterday's loss.

A Very Painful Loss
by Tiger Rowan

There have been more important losses than the one that the one that the Steelers suffered on Sunday to the Ravens, but none recently that hurt quite as badly as this one.

Not only are the Ravens the team with the most players on injured reserve, their secondary is horrible. Considering that the Steelers’ strength is passing, this should have been a day where Ben Roethlisberger passed for 300 yards and multiple touchdowns. Instead, Ben threw for his lowest first-half total of the season, along with two costly interceptions. For me, this game hurt so badly, because it never should have been close to begin with.

Furthermore, the most frustrating part about this loss was that any number of plays could have changed the entire game.

Read more:
http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/steelers-suffer-a-very-painful-loss/

NOTE: Check out Pereira's tweet.  


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JonM229

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PostSubject: Re: TPOP: A Very Painful Loss    TPOP:  A Very Painful Loss   EmptyWed Dec 30, 2015 11:41 am

Good article. I think the combination of the Ravens' determination to stop Brown, and Ben's unwillingness to look elsewhere, greatly contributed to the outcome.

However, I was pretty sure that Brown's TD was going to stand.

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TPOP:  A Very Painful Loss   6o22bn
Wallace108: Jon, how the hell do you expect any of us to ever follow your posts? You always set the bar awfully high.  TPOP:  A Very Painful Loss   1664291743

"Ray Rice is special.  He is a guy for all situations, as I have said before, even in an elevator." -Mike Tomlin
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Fire Arians

Fire Arians


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PostSubject: Re: TPOP: A Very Painful Loss    TPOP:  A Very Painful Loss   EmptyWed Dec 30, 2015 11:54 am

JonM229 wrote:
Good article.  I think the combination of the Ravens' determination to stop Brown, and Ben's unwillingness to look elsewhere, greatly contributed to the outcome.

However, I was pretty sure that Brown's TD was going to stand.

looks like he caught it with his junk TPOP:  A Very Painful Loss   1797695198

@teegre In all seriousness you bring up a point that I've been wondering about for the entire year, is ben trying to get AB into the HoF or win games? I know he's our best player, but forcing it to him every other throw is gonna come back to bite us eventually, and we saw it there. That play where Jesse James was wide open 30 yards down the field would have been a walk-in TD if he even looked that way. Those are the kind of plays you can't miss if you're an elite QB.

There were a number of other plays where Wheaton was open (on one INT brown was double covered but wheaton had his man beat by 3-5 yards), and Heath over the middle for easy throws but Ben kept going to Brown.

I think Ben's been falling in love too much with the long ball and needs to take what the defense gives him. He's thrown over 10 INT's this season and a lot of them have been due to taking unnecessary deep shots, or throwing deep when the opportunity isn't there. I'm not saying don't take the deep shots, but if the WR running the route is double / triple covered, and you got a 1on1 with bryant or wheaton, or heath wide open for the first down, take that.
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Atlanta Dan




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PostSubject: Re: TPOP: A Very Painful Loss    TPOP:  A Very Painful Loss   EmptyWed Dec 30, 2015 12:18 pm

Fire Arians wrote:
JonM229 wrote:
Good article.  I think the combination of the Ravens' determination to stop Brown, and Ben's unwillingness to look elsewhere, greatly contributed to the outcome.

However, I was pretty sure that Brown's TD was going to stand.

looks like he caught it with his junk TPOP:  A Very Painful Loss   1797695198

@teegre In all seriousness you bring up a point that I've been wondering about for the entire year, is ben trying to get AB into the HoF or win games? I know he's our best player, but forcing it to him every other throw is gonna come back to bite us eventually, and we saw it there. That play where Jesse James was wide open 30 yards down the field would have been a walk-in TD if he even looked that way. Those are the kind of plays you can't miss if you're an elite QB.

There were a number of other plays where Wheaton was open (on one INT brown was double covered but wheaton had his man beat by 3-5 yards), and Heath over the middle for easy throws but Ben kept going to Brown.

Agreed - it worked in the Denver game but the Broncos did not decide to stop Brown regardless of who else might then be open

It can be a fine line between highly confident and arrogant. Unlike the Seahawks pass defense, where Ben went to Wheaton when Sherman pretty much took Brown out of the game, I think Ben thought the Ravens simply could not stop him from getting to Brown and paid the price. Same mindset at work when he thought he could squeeze in passes to the left sideline in the 4th quarter of the first Bengals and Broncos games that were picked off.

Despite the disclaimers last week about not believing the stories comparing this offense to the virtually unstoppable Greatest Show on Turf, I think Ben may have started to believe it. After his great 2014 season I thought Ben had grown past having games like the clunkers against Dallas and Cincy at the end of the 2012 season (crucial late INTs in both games) - apparently not.

If the Steelers miss the playoffs and Haley gets a HC job (Tom Donahoe being brought in at Philly probably will get Haley consideration there) it will be interesting to see if a new coordinator will try to address some reappearing flaws in Ben's overly aggressive play this season. FWIW if Bell recovers fully I bet you see more running and passes to the RBs in 2016 even if Haley stays.
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Fire Arians

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PostSubject: Re: TPOP: A Very Painful Loss    TPOP:  A Very Painful Loss   EmptyWed Dec 30, 2015 12:27 pm

Atlanta Dan wrote:
Fire Arians wrote:
JonM229 wrote:
Good article.  I think the combination of the Ravens' determination to stop Brown, and Ben's unwillingness to look elsewhere, greatly contributed to the outcome.

However, I was pretty sure that Brown's TD was going to stand.

looks like he caught it with his junk TPOP:  A Very Painful Loss   1797695198

@teegre In all seriousness you bring up a point that I've been wondering about for the entire year, is ben trying to get AB into the HoF or win games? I know he's our best player, but forcing it to him every other throw is gonna come back to bite us eventually, and we saw it there. That play where Jesse James was wide open 30 yards down the field would have been a walk-in TD if he even looked that way. Those are the kind of plays you can't miss if you're an elite QB.

There were a number of other plays where Wheaton was open (on one INT brown was double covered but wheaton had his man beat by 3-5 yards), and Heath over the middle for easy throws but Ben kept going to Brown.

Agreed - it worked in the Denver game but the Broncos did not decide to stop Brown regardless of who else might then be open

It can be a fine line between highly confident and arrogant. Unlike the Seahawks pass defense, where Ben went to Wheaton when Sherman pretty much took Brown out of the game,  I think Ben thought the Ravens simply could not stop him from getting to Brown and paid the price.  Same mindset at work when he thought he could squeeze in passes to the left sideline in the 4th quarter of the first Bengals and Broncos games that were picked off.  

Despite the disclaimers last week about not believing the stories comparing this offense to the virtually unstoppable Greatest Show on Turf, I think Ben may have started to believe it.  After his great 2014 season I thought Ben had grown past having games like the clunkers against Dallas and Cincy at the end of the 2012 season (crucial late INTs in both games) - apparently not.

If the Steelers miss the playoffs and Haley gets a HC job (Tom Donahoe being brought in at Philly probably will get Haley consideration there) it will be interesting to see if a new coordinator will try to address some reappearing flaws in Ben's overly aggressive play this season.  FWIW if Bell recovers fully I bet you see more running and passes to the RBs in 2016 even if Haley stays.      

Yep, Denver was beaten by Brown because they had a much different strategy. Our guys vs your guys 1on1 and we'll see who's better, and we saw what happened. Ravens were rolling coverage to Brown and taking him out of the game. Ben was like you said, way too aggressive with going to his man instead of taking the open shots. This loss was mostly on him, and hopefully if we get a chance to sneak into the playoffs, he wisens up.

It was maddening to see Wheaton and Miller open on so many plays and Ben not throwing it in their direction more. And D-Will averaging 6 yards a carry and only running it 17 times.
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JonM229

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PostSubject: Re: TPOP: A Very Painful Loss    TPOP:  A Very Painful Loss   EmptyWed Dec 30, 2015 1:02 pm

Fire Arians wrote:
I think Ben's been falling in love too much with the long ball and needs to take what the defense gives him. He's thrown over 10 INT's this season and a lot of them have been due to taking unnecessary deep shots, or throwing deep when the opportunity isn't there.

I actually discussed this with @teegre earlier this week when I mentioned how it seems like Ben has been throwing more INTs this season despite his otherwise gaudy numbers.

_________________
TPOP:  A Very Painful Loss   6o22bn
Wallace108: Jon, how the hell do you expect any of us to ever follow your posts? You always set the bar awfully high.  TPOP:  A Very Painful Loss   1664291743

"Ray Rice is special.  He is a guy for all situations, as I have said before, even in an elevator." -Mike Tomlin
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teegre

teegre


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PostSubject: Re: TPOP: A Very Painful Loss    TPOP:  A Very Painful Loss   EmptyWed Dec 30, 2015 11:58 pm

JonM229 wrote:
Good article.  I think the combination of the Ravens' determination to stop Brown, and Ben's unwillingness to look elsewhere, greatly contributed to the outcome.

However, I was pretty sure that Brown's TD was going to stand.

BB was having a bad day. When a QB has a bad day, he looks for his security blanket... which is AB.

Alas, AB was having a slightly "off" day, as well.

.
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teegre

teegre


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PostSubject: Re: TPOP: A Very Painful Loss    TPOP:  A Very Painful Loss   EmptyThu Dec 31, 2015 12:05 am

Fire Arians wrote:
JonM229 wrote:
Good article.  I think the combination of the Ravens' determination to stop Brown, and Ben's unwillingness to look elsewhere, greatly contributed to the outcome.

However, I was pretty sure that Brown's TD was going to stand.

looks like he caught it with his junk TPOP:  A Very Painful Loss   1797695198

@teegre In all seriousness you bring up a point that I've been wondering about for the entire year, is ben trying to get AB into the HoF or win games? I know he's our best player, but forcing it to him every other throw is gonna come back to bite us eventually, and we saw it there. That play where Jesse James was wide open 30 yards down the field would have been a walk-in TD if he even looked that way. Those are the kind of plays you can't miss if you're an elite QB.

There were a number of other plays where Wheaton was open (on one INT brown was double covered but wheaton had his man beat by 3-5 yards), and Heath over the middle for easy throws but Ben kept going to Brown.

I think Ben's been falling in love too much with the long ball and needs to take what the defense gives him. He's thrown over 10 INT's this season and a lot of them have been due to taking unnecessary deep shots, or throwing deep when the opportunity isn't there. I'm not saying don't take the deep shots, but if the WR running the route is double / triple covered, and you got a 1on1 with bryant or wheaton, or heath wide open for the first down, take that.

Normally, BB will hit the majority of those deep passes. And, I'm normally fine with living & dying with those passes. The fact that he will go deep on ANY play, keeps defenses honest. On 3rd-&-1, defenses can no longer stack the box.

But, against the Ravens, they were GIVING him the middle of the field all day long (because, they were adamant about taking away the deep ball). Heath could have had 150 yards. Alas...

.
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teegre

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PostSubject: Re: TPOP: A Very Painful Loss    TPOP:  A Very Painful Loss   EmptyThu Dec 31, 2015 12:10 am

Atlanta Dan wrote:
Ben went to Wheaton when Sherman pretty much took Brown out of the game

Bingo!!!

Your assessment of the late-game INTs (Cincy, Denver) is also spot on.



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teegre

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PostSubject: Re: TPOP: A Very Painful Loss    TPOP:  A Very Painful Loss   EmptyThu Dec 31, 2015 12:19 am

JonM229 wrote:

I actually discussed this with @teegre earlier this week when I mentioned how it seems like Ben has been throwing more INTs this season despite his otherwise gaudy numbers.

Yes, you did.

I think that Dan's analysis is pretty accurate. BB is a tad over-confident. Those types of INTs hurt. Also, he's trying more "high-risk/high-reward" type throws. Many of those INTs are essentially punts.

Simply, I'm fine with the second type of INT. The deep passes keep defenses honest.

But, that first type sucks, because it results in 100-yard pick sixes (although, it was called back).

.
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