Are we going CB #1 again?

Master_Of_Puppets wrote:

solardave wrote:

Master_Of_Puppets wrote:

nine vegetable wrote:

Master_Of_Puppets wrote:

kirklandrules wrote:

Oh, back on topic, they may very well go CB in the first. There will be a decent CB at the 20th spot.

My favorite for this draft is still Germaine Pratt ILB. Unfortunately, he's probably not a 20th pick but most likely will not be there for the Steelers in the 2nd. He's a former Safety and very good in coverage. He also would have led the ACC in tackles last year had he not sat out the last game of the season with an ankle injury. He's played at 240 lbs, but I'd take him and get him down to 230 lbs.  Watch film on that kid. It's amazing that almost every time he makes a hit, the ball carrier goes backwards. There are a few plays it literally looks like the running back hits a brick wall. He gives no ground.

good chance devin bush may be there at #20.

I'd like to see a trade up to the top 10.  Get ONE GREAT player.  Devin White (not a fan of Devin Bush), or Greedy Williams.

are you serious ? the ONLY thing Bush is lacking is 2 inches of height. the guy has the speed and athleticism that shazier had (4.3 forty ).   he is good in pass coverage and is faster than any tight end and most running backs. whats not to like ?  if devin white was not in this draft , he would be getting all the attention.
i wouldn't be against them drafting bush in the 1st and pratt in the second if he is still there.

Here is a Bush highlight
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqSAZAARGqI

Some of you might remember Sam Mills. He was short and stout but had attitude and heart. Bush reminds me of Mills. Tenacious,quick and a sure tackler. If we straighten out our secondary problems where we don't have to rely on our ILBs to constantly be covering the TE and they can play close to the line that'll go a long way I think. We can get sack and harass the QB all day but if we can't stop the run on play action because our ILBs are out in coverage we'll never be able to slow the better offenses down. Especially if we have slow cumbersome ILBs. If you believe the mocks out there Bush will be there at #20 and I think he'll be a bargain.
It would be great if we could package our extra picks to get Roby.  

who is this Roby you speak of ?

as someone else pointed out , minnesota at 18 may be a spoiler for Bush just as Dallas scooped up vander esch before our pick last year. oh and i just seen the ratbirds who pick 22 lost their ILB to the jets, so they may try to move ahead of us to get bush....

with all of our new holes added to the old holes this year, i don't think they'll want to spend half their draft capital to move up. a first and a few late rd picks aren't going to move them to far. they'd have to give up most of their top half of picks just to get to 10. remember we don't even have a 4th rd pick.

https://sports.yahoo.com/bradley-roby-turned-down-offers-200453725.html

Maybe we package the extra picks we have to move up. I think Nelson could be a good signing. We still need help opposite Hayden or Burns or Sensabaugh needs to stand out in training camp. I thought Sensabaugh played better as the year went on so maybe we'll be good there. The good news is there are a lot of play making LBers in this draft.

Before we signed Steven Nelson CB was the number one need for us (in my opinion). Since we've signed Steven Nelson I think we'll be alright at corner, we should still draft a young guy but ILB is our biggest need now. If Devin Bush is available at #20 we need to grab him.

IowaSteeler927 wrote:

Before we signed Steven Nelson CB was the number one need for us (in my opinion). Since we've signed Steven Nelson I think we'll be alright at corner, we should still draft a young guy but ILB is our biggest need now. If Devin Bush is available at #20 we need to grab him.

I believe he'll be there and agree he would be a great fit at #1.

solardave wrote:

IowaSteeler927 wrote:

Before we signed Steven Nelson CB was the number one need for us (in my opinion). Since we've signed Steven Nelson I think we'll be alright at corner, we should still draft a young guy but ILB is our biggest need now. If Devin Bush is available at #20 we need to grab him.

I believe he'll be there and agree he would be a great fit at #1.

there's two teams i see that could play the spoiler for bush at 20. minnesota at 18 and Bmore at 22 who could move up. Bmore lost mosley to the jets so ILB has to be on top of their list.

Master_Of_Puppets wrote:

solardave wrote:

IowaSteeler927 wrote:

Before we signed Steven Nelson CB was the number one need for us (in my opinion). Since we've signed Steven Nelson I think we'll be alright at corner, we should still draft a young guy but ILB is our biggest need now. If Devin Bush is available at #20 we need to grab him.

I believe he'll be there and agree he would be a great fit at #1.

there's two teams i see that could play the spoiler for bush at 20. minnesota at 18 and Bmore at 22 who could move up. Bmore lost mosley to the jets so ILB has to be on top of their list.

I forgot about Mosley and I'm sure Hairball would love nothing more then to screw up our plans.

think a 3 round CB pick for the Steelers now.

Someone has the Devin's mocked at #10 and #11 (11 being Devin Bush to the Bengals).

Baltimore and Cinci are in need of ILBs, I could definitely see them taking Bush just to piss us off. Baltimore especially.

Mack Wilson and Tre Lamar will probably be there but they're both projected in the 1-3 rounds. Lamar might be better moving to OLB. Once again I think we go BPA but by who's opinion. It seems the last 2 or 3 years the FO's opinion and us fan's have not been in sync.
At this point it's anyone's guess.

solardave wrote:

Mack Wilson and Tre Lamar will probably be there but they're both projected in the 1-3 rounds. Lamar might be better moving to OLB. Once again I think we go BPA but by who's opinion. It seems the last 2 or 3 years the FO's opinion and us fan's have not been in sync.
At this point it's anyone's guess.

I still like Wilson. I think he's gotten an undeserved bad rap. Yes, he had great linemen in front of him. And yes, he played half the snaps because they were blowing out their opponents most of the year and Saban threw in his younger players. But his tape looks great. I think he's still a late 1st round quality guy.

Lamar, well I don't really care for him. He's slower than the DMV. He's the old school ILB who is a big man who can stop the run. We don't need that because we have 3 guys on the roster just like that. I'm thinking he's still sitting there in the 3rd.

My guy Pratt is a younger, bigger, harder hitting version of Barron. Get him to lose 10 lbs and he's a 4.5 or 4.49 40 guy.

kirklandrules wrote:

solardave wrote:

Mack Wilson and Tre Lamar will probably be there but they're both projected in the 1-3 rounds. Lamar might be better moving to OLB. Once again I think we go BPA but by who's opinion. It seems the last 2 or 3 years the FO's opinion and us fan's have not been in sync.
At this point it's anyone's guess.

I still like Wilson. I think he's gotten an undeserved bad rap. Yes, he had great linemen in front of him. And yes, he played half the snaps because they were blowing out their opponents most of the year and Saban threw in his younger players. But his tape looks great. I think he's still a late 1st round quality guy.

Lamar, well I don't really care for him. He's slower than the DMV. He's the old school ILB who is a big man who can stop the run. We don't need that because we have 3 guys on the roster just like that.  I'm thinking he's still sitting there in the 3rd.

My guy Pratt is a younger, bigger, harder hitting version of Barron. Get him to lose 10 lbs and he's a 4.5 or 4.49 40 guy.

My question is two fold: Do you think Wlson or Pratt would be a stretch and which would you prefer?

solardave wrote:

kirklandrules wrote:

solardave wrote:

Mack Wilson and Tre Lamar will probably be there but they're both projected in the 1-3 rounds. Lamar might be better moving to OLB. Once again I think we go BPA but by who's opinion. It seems the last 2 or 3 years the FO's opinion and us fan's have not been in sync.
At this point it's anyone's guess.

I still like Wilson. I think he's gotten an undeserved bad rap. Yes, he had great linemen in front of him. And yes, he played half the snaps because they were blowing out their opponents most of the year and Saban threw in his younger players. But his tape looks great. I think he's still a late 1st round quality guy.

Lamar, well I don't really care for him. He's slower than the DMV. He's the old school ILB who is a big man who can stop the run. We don't need that because we have 3 guys on the roster just like that.  I'm thinking he's still sitting there in the 3rd.

My guy Pratt is a younger, bigger, harder hitting version of Barron. Get him to lose 10 lbs and he's a 4.5 or 4.49 40 guy.

My question is two fold: Do you think Wlson or Pratt would be a stretch and which would you prefer?

For the 1st round, 20th selection, I don't believe Wilson is a stretch. IMO, he's capable of being a rookie starter, although with the Barron pick-up there's less pressure. Pratt is probably a stretch at #20 because he's only had 1 season starting as an ILB and not quite polished. But Pratt has a ton of athleticism and could become a very good player.

For those interested, here's how I look at draft prospects: I place high value on the player rankings when the last college game is played. I may adjust my thinking slightly based on combine performance (player may move up or down slightly) or if personality issues become known. But most of my positioning favors what a player has done on the field and little of what he does in a pair of shorts.

Devin Bush was not the #2 ILB when play ended. Combine and hype have people thinking he's a mid 1st round player. I disagree. I think Wilson is better. Bush is good, don't get me wrong. But he played poorly against the Wisconsin run game and poorly against the Ohio State passing game. He had good games, but it's not like he's a world beater that the Steelers have to sell out for. Hence they got Barron to put them in position to choose more wisely.

My ranking of ILBs is (the combine and PR hype did not alter this):

1. Devin White
2. Mack Wilson
3. Devin Bush
4. Germaine Pratt

I think Bush can have a greater impact on a team earlier in his career than Pratt. But I think Pratt has a higher ceiling in the long run. Regardless, I'd be happy if the Steelers were able to land any of these 4 guys because they can all play.

kirklandrules wrote:

solardave wrote:

kirklandrules wrote:

solardave wrote:

Mack Wilson and Tre Lamar will probably be there but they're both projected in the 1-3 rounds. Lamar might be better moving to OLB. Once again I think we go BPA but by who's opinion. It seems the last 2 or 3 years the FO's opinion and us fan's have not been in sync.
At this point it's anyone's guess.

I still like Wilson. I think he's gotten an undeserved bad rap. Yes, he had great linemen in front of him. And yes, he played half the snaps because they were blowing out their opponents most of the year and Saban threw in his younger players. But his tape looks great. I think he's still a late 1st round quality guy.

Lamar, well I don't really care for him. He's slower than the DMV. He's the old school ILB who is a big man who can stop the run. We don't need that because we have 3 guys on the roster just like that.  I'm thinking he's still sitting there in the 3rd.

My guy Pratt is a younger, bigger, harder hitting version of Barron. Get him to lose 10 lbs and he's a 4.5 or 4.49 40 guy.

My question is two fold: Do you think Wlson or Pratt would be a stretch and which would you prefer?

For the 1st round, 20th selection, I don't believe Wilson is a stretch. IMO, he's capable of being a rookie starter, although with the Barron pick-up there's less pressure. Pratt is probably a stretch at #20 because he's only had 1 season starting as an ILB and not quite polished. But Pratt has a ton of athleticism and could become a very good player.

For those interested, here's how I look at draft prospects: I place high value on the player rankings when the last college game is played. I may adjust my thinking slightly based on combine performance (player may move up or down slightly) or if personality issues become known. But most of my positioning favors what a player has done on the field and little of what he does in a pair of shorts.

Devin Bush was not the #2 ILB when play ended. Combine and hype have people thinking he's a mid 1st round player. I disagree.  I think Wilson is better. Bush is good, don't get me wrong. But he played poorly against the Wisconsin run game and poorly against the Ohio State passing game. He had good games, but it's not like he's a world beater that the Steelers have to sell out for. Hence they got Barron to put them in position to choose more wisely.

My ranking of ILBs is (the combine and PR hype did not alter this):

1. Devin White
2. Mack Wilson
3. Devin Bush
4. Germaine Pratt

I think Bush can have a greater impact on a team earlier in his career than Pratt. But I think Pratt has a higher ceiling in the long run. Regardless, I'd be happy if the Steelers were able to land any of these 4 guys because they can all play.

You mentioned Barron as a guy to take the pressure off of our draft needs. So I'm curious about how you see the free agents we picked up. Outside of Barron how do you see Nelson and Moncrief fitting in? Do you see these guys as a possible win in free agency? I know it's hard to say until we see them on the field.

solardave wrote:

kirklandrules wrote:

solardave wrote:

kirklandrules wrote:

solardave wrote:

Mack Wilson and Tre Lamar will probably be there but they're both projected in the 1-3 rounds. Lamar might be better moving to OLB. Once again I think we go BPA but by who's opinion. It seems the last 2 or 3 years the FO's opinion and us fan's have not been in sync.
At this point it's anyone's guess.

I still like Wilson. I think he's gotten an undeserved bad rap. Yes, he had great linemen in front of him. And yes, he played half the snaps because they were blowing out their opponents most of the year and Saban threw in his younger players. But his tape looks great. I think he's still a late 1st round quality guy.

Lamar, well I don't really care for him. He's slower than the DMV. He's the old school ILB who is a big man who can stop the run. We don't need that because we have 3 guys on the roster just like that.  I'm thinking he's still sitting there in the 3rd.

My guy Pratt is a younger, bigger, harder hitting version of Barron. Get him to lose 10 lbs and he's a 4.5 or 4.49 40 guy.

My question is two fold: Do you think Wlson or Pratt would be a stretch and which would you prefer?

For the 1st round, 20th selection, I don't believe Wilson is a stretch. IMO, he's capable of being a rookie starter, although with the Barron pick-up there's less pressure. Pratt is probably a stretch at #20 because he's only had 1 season starting as an ILB and not quite polished. But Pratt has a ton of athleticism and could become a very good player.

For those interested, here's how I look at draft prospects: I place high value on the player rankings when the last college game is played. I may adjust my thinking slightly based on combine performance (player may move up or down slightly) or if personality issues become known. But most of my positioning favors what a player has done on the field and little of what he does in a pair of shorts.

Devin Bush was not the #2 ILB when play ended. Combine and hype have people thinking he's a mid 1st round player. I disagree.  I think Wilson is better. Bush is good, don't get me wrong. But he played poorly against the Wisconsin run game and poorly against the Ohio State passing game. He had good games, but it's not like he's a world beater that the Steelers have to sell out for. Hence they got Barron to put them in position to choose more wisely.

My ranking of ILBs is (the combine and PR hype did not alter this):

1. Devin White
2. Mack Wilson
3. Devin Bush
4. Germaine Pratt

I think Bush can have a greater impact on a team earlier in his career than Pratt. But I think Pratt has a higher ceiling in the long run. Regardless, I'd be happy if the Steelers were able to land any of these 4 guys because they can all play.

You mentioned Barron as a guy to take the pressure off of our draft needs. So I'm curious about how you see the free agents we picked up. Outside of Barron how do you see Nelson and Moncrief fitting in? Do you see these guys as a possible win in free agency? I know it's hard to say until we see them on the field.

Great question. Those 3 FA acquisitions for the Steelers were wins. All three take pressure off having to hit a home run in the 1st round at any of those positions. Barron and Nelson improved their positions from last year. Barron is better than L.J. Fort, so the Steelers are better at ILB than last year. Nelson is better than Cody Sensabaugh, so the Steelers are better at CB than last year. Nelson's skillset is better than Sensabaugh's and he's more aggressive in his play.

WR is a bit of a different story. Moncrief is not better than AB, that's a fact and there is no WR in the league who would come in and be better than AB. However, Moncrief is far better than the stats he has to this point. He looked really good playing with Luck in Indy, but Luck wasn't healthy long enough for Moncrief to put together a long string of successful games. His year in Jax was just a poor move on his part. QB is a weakness on that team and Moncrief wasn't going to change that. So, even though I love his skills and desire to score on every catch, I don't expect Moncrief to put up 15 TDs in 2019. But that doesn't mean our passing game with the current targets on the roster, won't be almost as effective. Ben has shown that he can distribute the ball. There were games that AB was neutralized, but Ben still got his yards and TDs ... usually hitting 8 different receivers. Also, Ben had 16 picks in 2018, a good portion while trying to force throws into AB. Denver anyone? Ben blamed AB for not running a shallow enough route, which was absolutely true (why would a little receiver run a slant to the back of the endzone?). But Ben was throwing to him regardless and that play lost the game. I don't think Ben will force the ball as much this year. He'll consciously find the best targets now that his safety blanket is gone. (Prediction, Ben has 10 or fewer picks in 2019). The addition of Moncrief allows the Steelers to find a receiver in the 2nd or 3rd rounds and not have to be an immediate hit.

Pittsburgh signed these 3 guys to better themselves and not have to find an immediate success in the draft. TJ Watt wasn't a difference maker in his rookie season, but his second season was very good. Edmunds wasn't a difference maker in his rookie season, but he looks like he has what it takes, making a leap in year two, to make a difference in 2019. Whoever they draft this year, they have to assume the rookie isn't going to be a dominate force this year. They are in a position to draft best available and not forced by need. If they don't get an ILB in round 1, maybe move up and get Pratt in round 2. If they don't get a WR in round 1, there are a handful of really good WRs who will be available in round 2. Same thing with CB. I'm calling it right now, whoever the Steelers choose in round 1 is because they believe in that player at that spot. They did that with Edmunds last year even though most people felt they reached ... hell, they didn't need a safety that bad, they just signed Burnett. They'll take the guy who they think is the right pick for them at that time.

kirklandrules wrote:

solardave wrote:

Mack Wilson and Tre Lamar will probably be there but they're both projected in the 1-3 rounds. Lamar might be better moving to OLB. Once again I think we go BPA but by who's opinion. It seems the last 2 or 3 years the FO's opinion and us fan's have not been in sync.
At this point it's anyone's guess.

I still like Wilson. I think he's gotten an undeserved bad rap. Yes, he had great linemen in front of him. And yes, he played half the snaps because they were blowing out their opponents most of the year and Saban threw in his younger players. But his tape looks great. I think he's still a late 1st round quality guy.

less reps to me means less mileage and Saban has about the same defensive mentality as the Steelers and the Steelers have good 3 down linemen I think Wilson could be a good fit. get some help in the back end for CB coach Tom Bradley with what he had last year I saw some improvement now he's going into his 2nd year.

Tre Lamar ran a high 4.95 in the 40 pro day.....yikes...he'll be going for cheap on draft day.

mack wilson ran an unimpressive 4.6 ... he countered by saying he didn't spend his career training to be a track star.

Master_Of_Puppets wrote:

Tre Lamar ran a high 4.95 in the 40 pro day.....yikes...he'll be going for cheap on draft day.

mack wilson ran an unimpressive 4.6 ... he countered by saying he didn't spend his career training to be a track star.

watch out for the combine work out warriors being fast in the 20 yard times.

effyou515 wrote:

Master_Of_Puppets wrote:

Tre Lamar ran a high 4.95 in the 40 pro day.....yikes...he'll be going for cheap on draft day.

mack wilson ran an unimpressive 4.6 ... he countered by saying he didn't spend his career training to be a track star.

watch out for the combine work out warriors being fast in the 20 yard times.

I couldn't agree more. What's important is what's on the tape. There are a ton of guys who can put up 130 lbs a bunch of times but can't play their way out of a paper bag. Or guys who can run a fast 40 but can't catch a football or make a tackle.

effyou515 wrote:

Master_Of_Puppets wrote:

Tre Lamar ran a high 4.95 in the 40 pro day.....yikes...he'll be going for cheap on draft day.

mack wilson ran an unimpressive 4.6 ... he countered by saying he didn't spend his career training to be a track star.

watch out for the combine work out warriors being fast in the 20 yard times.

i agree , but common sense dictates a linebacker that runs a 4.95 isn't going to be able to keep up with a running back or a tight end that can run a 4.5 ...
these guys skipped the combine running , so these are pro day 40's. i guess they knew they would run shitty times, so they opted for the extra time to practice maybe ?

 ryan shazier ran a blazing 4.3 , and jarvis jones ran like a 4.8  which likely scared a lot of teams away. others said watch the game film, track times mean nothing. colbert and tomlin must have been in that camp.

dirty red matakevich was also a tackling machine with good college film,even won a bunch of awards , but lacked speed. that is why he was a 7th rd pick and is not a starter

I'm kinda thinking since the Steelers picked up a CB and ILB and the drop off with the top two CBs and ILBs is a bit and the top two of both positions most likely gone by the 20 pick and the pickup of WR Moncrief. I think the Steelers BPA is WR with their 20th pick and they go with a big WR in Iowa State Hakeem Butler at 6'5 and 4.5 forty to go with 6'+ 215lbs+ JUJU and Moncrief against 5' 10" CBs is a plus to me and better match ups in the redzone.

effyou515 wrote:

I'm kinda thinking since the Steelers picked up a CB and ILB and the drop off with the top two CBs and ILBs is a bit and the top two of both positions most likely gone by the 20 pick and the pickup of WR Moncrief. I think the Steelers BPA is WR with their 20th pick and they go with a big WR in Iowa State Hakeem Butler at 6'5 and 4.5 forty to go with 6'+ 215lbs+ JUJU and Moncrief against 5' 10" CBs is a plus to me and better match ups in the redzone.

I agree with the BPA theory. I just don't think it'll be a WR. We have way too many questions on defense. We've seen more free agent pickups lately that didn't fit so how could we know for sure if these 3 are the answer. Plus this draft is fairly deep in pretty good CBs and LBs.

solardave wrote:

effyou515 wrote:

I'm kinda thinking since the Steelers picked up a CB and ILB and the drop off with the top two CBs and ILBs is a bit and the top two of both positions most likely gone by the 20 pick and the pickup of WR Moncrief. I think the Steelers BPA is WR with their 20th pick and they go with a big WR in Iowa State Hakeem Butler at 6'5 and 4.5 forty to go with 6'+ 215lbs+ JUJU and Moncrief against 5' 10" CBs is a plus to me and better match ups in the redzone.

I agree with the BPA theory. I just don't think it'll be a WR. We have way too many questions on defense. We've seen more free agent pickups lately that didn't fit so how could we know for sure if these 3 are the answer. Plus this draft is fairly deep in pretty good CBs and LBs.

imo, the pretty good CBs and ILBs are second tier and are second and third round picks.

effyou515 wrote:

solardave wrote:

effyou515 wrote:

I'm kinda thinking since the Steelers picked up a CB and ILB and the drop off with the top two CBs and ILBs is a bit and the top two of both positions most likely gone by the 20 pick and the pickup of WR Moncrief. I think the Steelers BPA is WR with their 20th pick and they go with a big WR in Iowa State Hakeem Butler at 6'5 and 4.5 forty to go with 6'+ 215lbs+ JUJU and Moncrief against 5' 10" CBs is a plus to me and better match ups in the redzone.

I agree with the BPA theory. I just don't think it'll be a WR. We have way too many questions on defense. We've seen more free agent pickups lately that didn't fit so how could we know for sure if these 3 are the answer. Plus this draft is fairly deep in pretty good CBs and LBs.

imo, the pretty good CBs and ILBs are second tier and are second and third round picks.

I'd love to see us get a first day starter at any position of need for a change. The fact is there are a lot of players DBs,WRs,LBs that are projected going in 1-3 or 2-4. I have a feeling our pick at 20 will be a shock. I only hope it's a good shock.
Maybe they use some extra picks to move up. Who knows?

Drew Lock, QB, lol