derick watt - 4/7%...what the hell is he on the roster for ?
Special teams and keeping his very expensive brother happy
yeah i get that is/was the motive , but he isnt cheap. i said when they signed him i liked the signing if they actually used him. watching old Canada college game film, he actually had the fullback involved in the offense. more of an Hback role but still. especially at Pitt. shuttle passes to the fullback where very common.
IowaSteeler927
Posts : 5120 Join date : 2015-04-11 Location : Des Moines, Iowa
Could've just been the gameplan for this particular matchup. I will be interested to see if Canada implements the FB more in the coming weeks. We're playing the Raiders who are obviously susceptible to the run game as evidenced by the Ravens running it fairly well against them. They may very well have lost Gerald Mccoy for the rest of the season and Yannick Ngaukoue is banged up as well. I think Canada would be wise to really try to run it right down the Raiders' throats. Seeing some Power I Formation with Watt out there blocking for Najee would be nice.
We're also playing Cinci next week, they were a bit tougher against the run but they were also playing the hapless mess that is the Minnesota Vikings. I think we can run the ball on them as well.
So I think we could possibly have some Derek Watt sightings this weekend and the next.
_________________
"Success isn't owned, it's leased and the rent is due every day." - TJ Watt
Last edited by IowaSteeler927 on Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:34 am; edited 1 time in total
Stella Nation
Posts : 1529 Join date : 2015-05-13 Location : Stella City
It was only one game, but I was disappointed in the offense. They looked very much like they did to close out last season. I really expected with all the emphasis they put on the running game that it would be better. I believe the offense has lethal weapons and should improve.
Again, only one game but the D looks awesome. The 3 headed monster of Watt, Ingram, Highsmith could be really lethal. They had 3 sacks Sunday, but there were (if I remember right) 6 holding penalties on the Bills that were called and probably another dozen that weren't. I read somewhere they got that pressure despite only blitzing 2x in Allen's 54 drop backs. The secondary seemed better than expected. I was surprised Norwood played so much.
I don't think it can be emphasized enough how huge it was going into a hostile environment like that, beating a team game 1 that many pick to at least go to the SB, and coming out with a win. This could set the tone for the season. We are one win ahead of where everyone predicted. It should be a huge confidence builder for the players, especially for the 6 rookies who saw extensive action Sunday.
The sea of blue leaving the stadium before the game was over Sunday was fun to watch after listening and seeing their actions all day long
I wasn't happy either, especially in the first half. Canada should've let Ben use the deep ball at the start of the game. Even if it doesn't work, it would have kept the Bills' defense honest. Now they constantly had 10 defenders within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage because we were too predictable once again. We need to stretch out the field more to give our running game a chance instead of letting defenses stacking the box. 2nd half was somewhat better, maybe because we were trailing and we needed to take some more risks, but we can't keep mounting comebacks everytime. I hope Canada realises this and isn't Randy Fichtner 2.0 at the start of the game.
solardave and LambertWardSteel like this post
solardave
Posts : 6308 Join date : 2011-09-30 Location : State of Confusion
It was only one game, but I was disappointed in the offense. They looked very much like they did to close out last season. I really expected with all the emphasis they put on the running game that it would be better. I believe the offense has lethal weapons and should improve.
Again, only one game but the D looks awesome. The 3 headed monster of Watt, Ingram, Highsmith could be really lethal. They had 3 sacks Sunday, but there were (if I remember right) 6 holding penalties on the Bills that were called and probably another dozen that weren't. I read somewhere they got that pressure despite only blitzing 2x in Allen's 54 drop backs. The secondary seemed better than expected. I was surprised Norwood played so much.
I don't think it can be emphasized enough how huge it was going into a hostile environment like that, beating a team game 1 that many pick to at least go to the SB, and coming out with a win. This could set the tone for the season. We are one win ahead of where everyone predicted. It should be a huge confidence builder for the players, especially for the 6 rookies who saw extensive action Sunday.
The sea of blue leaving the stadium before the game was over Sunday was fun to watch after listening and seeing their actions all day long
I wasn't happy either, especially in the first half. Canada should've let Ben use the deep ball at the start of the game. Even if it doesn't work, it would have kept the Bills' defense honest. Now they constantly had 10 defenders within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage because we were too predictable once again. We need to stretch out the field more to give our running game a chance instead of letting defenses stacking the box. 2nd half was somewhat better, maybe because we were trailing and we needed to take some more risks, but we can't keep mounting comebacks everytime. I hope Canada realises this and isn't Randy Fichtner 2.0 at the start of the game.
I hear you but I think he'll start figuring out what works and design an offense around that. We need to take our shots down the field but I also think the old adage applies. Run the ball to set up the pass. We didn't do any of that well in the first half and not much better in the second half. The D won this one for us and I know that's the way it is sometimes. I just don't want to see a repeat of the second half of last years offense that caused the D to get gassed to the point where we weren't stopping anything.
It's early and we got the W so I'll take it. Tomlin's words to Bob Labriola: "We better get better.
It was only one game, but I was disappointed in the offense. They looked very much like they did to close out last season. I really expected with all the emphasis they put on the running game that it would be better. I believe the offense has lethal weapons and should improve.
Again, only one game but the D looks awesome. The 3 headed monster of Watt, Ingram, Highsmith could be really lethal. They had 3 sacks Sunday, but there were (if I remember right) 6 holding penalties on the Bills that were called and probably another dozen that weren't. I read somewhere they got that pressure despite only blitzing 2x in Allen's 54 drop backs. The secondary seemed better than expected. I was surprised Norwood played so much.
I don't think it can be emphasized enough how huge it was going into a hostile environment like that, beating a team game 1 that many pick to at least go to the SB, and coming out with a win. This could set the tone for the season. We are one win ahead of where everyone predicted. It should be a huge confidence builder for the players, especially for the 6 rookies who saw extensive action Sunday.
The sea of blue leaving the stadium before the game was over Sunday was fun to watch after listening and seeing their actions all day long
I wasn't happy either, especially in the first half. Canada should've let Ben use the deep ball at the start of the game. Even if it doesn't work, it would have kept the Bills' defense honest. Now they constantly had 10 defenders within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage because we were too predictable once again. We need to stretch out the field more to give our running game a chance instead of letting defenses stacking the box. 2nd half was somewhat better, maybe because we were trailing and we needed to take some more risks, but we can't keep mounting comebacks everytime. I hope Canada realises this and isn't Randy Fichtner 2.0 at the start of the game.
I hear you but I think he'll start figuring out what works and design an offense around that. We need to take our shots down the field but I also think the old adage applies. Run the ball to set up the pass. We didn't do any of that well in the first half and not much better in the second half. The D won this one for us and I know that's the way it is sometimes. I just don't want to see a repeat of the second half of last years offense that caused the D to get gassed to the point where we weren't stopping anything.
It's early and we got the W so I'll take it. Tomlin's words to Bob Labriola: "We better get better.
The offense did look like junk. The 2nd half was better at moving the ball, but they only put the ball in the endzone on 1 of 4 trips into the redzone, which is not what winning teams do. Frankly, that ratio sucks, so I'm going to sum it up that the offense sucked in this game. Defense and Special Teams won that game.
Now let me play defense attorney for Canada:
It's a brand new offense and it will take time for the team to get comfortable with the playbook;
Offenses roll out their playbooks as the year progresses, so I expect to see more plays each week.
2 rookies, a 2nd year player, and a RT who was the weak link from last year's offensive line. Turner, I thought, played well against the Bills and Dan Moore is showing he's going to be very good. But individual performances only get you so much. It's critical that O-line play as a single unit and that will take time.
A rookie RB. Harris played well, but there were times he went to the wrong side for pass protection, he didn't play the middle screen well, and maybe could have made a few more yards reading the right cuts on run plays.
Part of the really poor start on Sunday was due to Ben. He looked rusty.
The Bills do have a very good defense.
All of the above should get better as the Steelers go through season. The line, hopefully, will begin to settle in, the players will get comfortable with the system, the playbook will expand, Harris will only get better, and Ben should rebound and have good games ahead. I like that the Steelers are 1-0 to start the season and left a lot of offense on the table.
Happy with the win but Buffalo had 24 more offensive plays than the Steelers. That is not sustainable for season-long success. Offense has to be able to possess the ball longer.
there was someone on this forum that said over and over that prioritizing a RB over oline in the draft was a mistake. they used a phrase that had something about a cart and a horse in it. they thought putting a quality RB behind a shitty oline would be a waste of talent. they also wanted to trade back. now who was that. too soon ?
SteelerFreak58
Posts : 2756 Join date : 2015-09-13 Location : Modesto CA
there was someone on this forum that said over and over that prioritizing a RB over oline in the draft was a mistake. they used a phrase that had something about a cart and a horse in it. they thought putting a quality RB behind a shitty oline would be a waste of talent. they also wanted to trade back. now who was that. too soon ?
there was someone on this forum that said over and over that prioritizing a RB over oline in the draft was a mistake. they used a phrase that had something about a cart and a horse in it. they thought putting a quality RB behind a shitty oline would be a waste of talent. they also wanted to trade back. now who was that. too soon ?
There were a few of us selling that narrative...
there was...and others going najee !!! najee !!! najee might have been a bit more successful than any RB on the roster last year because of his shear talent, but we still would have had a shitty running game. what they have done so far personnel wise i dont believe will make a huge difference THIS year. i wanted the first 3 or even 4 rounds to be dedicated to blockers. take 2 players at a single position and you increase your odds of finding a keeper. chuks was not impressive at RT so why would they think he might be a LT ? Banner hasnt been on the field long enough to decide if he has starting potential at all. green was a mid round pick on NOBODIES rader. turner was a gamble he would return to form. but hey we got the best RB in the draft...so who cares .. if these guys dont improve quick, ben and najee will finish the season on IR.
Last edited by Master_Of_Puppets on Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
solardave
Posts : 6308 Join date : 2011-09-30 Location : State of Confusion
there was someone on this forum that said over and over that prioritizing a RB over oline in the draft was a mistake. they used a phrase that had something about a cart and a horse in it. they thought putting a quality RB behind a shitty oline would be a waste of talent. they also wanted to trade back. now who was that. too soon ?
There were a few of us selling that narrative...
there was...and others going najee !!! najee !!! najee might have been a bit more successful on any RB on the roster last year because of his shear talent, but we still would have had a shitty running game. what they have done so far personnel wise i dont believe will make a huge difference THIS year. i wanted the first 3 or even 4 rounds to be dedicated to blockers. take 2 players at a single position and you increase your odds of finding a keeper. chuks was not impressive at RT so why would they think he might be a LT ? Banner hasnt been on the field long enough to decide if he has starting potential at all. green was a mid round pick on NOBODIES rader. turner was a gamble he would return to form. but hey we got the best RB in the draft...so who cares .. if these guys dont improve quick, ben and najee will finish the season on IR.
I think they will improve. The fact that they got better in the 2nd half last week leads me to believe there's hope. I'd rather have rookies making mistakes but have some nasty in them than seasoned over the hill vets who don't have it anymore. Time will tell.
there was someone on this forum that said over and over that prioritizing a RB over oline in the draft was a mistake. they used a phrase that had something about a cart and a horse in it. they thought putting a quality RB behind a shitty oline would be a waste of talent. they also wanted to trade back. now who was that. too soon ?
There were a few of us selling that narrative...
there was...and others going najee !!! najee !!! najee might have been a bit more successful on any RB on the roster last year because of his shear talent, but we still would have had a shitty running game. what they have done so far personnel wise i dont believe will make a huge difference THIS year. i wanted the first 3 or even 4 rounds to be dedicated to blockers. take 2 players at a single position and you increase your odds of finding a keeper. chuks was not impressive at RT so why would they think he might be a LT ? Banner hasnt been on the field long enough to decide if he has starting potential at all. green was a mid round pick on NOBODIES rader. turner was a gamble he would return to form. but hey we got the best RB in the draft...so who cares .. if these guys dont improve quick, ben and najee will finish the season on IR.
I think they will improve. The fact that they got better in the 2nd half last week leads me to believe there's hope. I'd rather have rookies making mistakes but have some nasty in them than seasoned over the hill vets who don't have it anymore. Time will tell.
MOP, are you saying if the Steelers drafted an O-lineman in the first round, instead of Najee, the offense would have been better against the Bills? And better over the course of the season? And better over the next 5 years, which is how Colbert measures his success?
Seeing the week 1 starting lineup, I was thinking the Steelers just might have had one of the top drafts across the NFL (6 starters!). Dan Moore has been a big surprise and I would argue his ceiling is much higher. Didn't he grade out near the top of the rookie O-linemen after week 1? I think you posted that Green was pulled from Sunday's game because he was too aggressive? Turner is really good, as long as injuries don't pop up on him. Dotson was a positive surprise last year and should get better. Chuks is the weak link on that line. To answer your question about why the Steelers think he'll be better at LT than RT, it's because he predominantly he was a more natural LT than RT in college (and I have to assume they see it in practice as well). But Chuks might not be able to push Moore out when Banner is healthy. I liked what I heard about Banner in last year's training camp and preseason ... how strong he was in the run game. Get him and Turner working together, look out! In time, this O-line could become really good.
But I'm up for playing your game.. Who should the Steelers have selected in the 1st round instead of Najee? And who would they have taken as a RB, or would you prefer Snell as your feature back?
there was someone on this forum that said over and over that prioritizing a RB over oline in the draft was a mistake. they used a phrase that had something about a cart and a horse in it. they thought putting a quality RB behind a shitty oline would be a waste of talent. they also wanted to trade back. now who was that. too soon ?
There were a few of us selling that narrative...
there was...and others going najee !!! najee !!! najee might have been a bit more successful on any RB on the roster last year because of his shear talent, but we still would have had a shitty running game. what they have done so far personnel wise i dont believe will make a huge difference THIS year. i wanted the first 3 or even 4 rounds to be dedicated to blockers. take 2 players at a single position and you increase your odds of finding a keeper. chuks was not impressive at RT so why would they think he might be a LT ? Banner hasnt been on the field long enough to decide if he has starting potential at all. green was a mid round pick on NOBODIES rader. turner was a gamble he would return to form. but hey we got the best RB in the draft...so who cares .. if these guys dont improve quick, ben and najee will finish the season on IR.
I think they will improve. The fact that they got better in the 2nd half last week leads me to believe there's hope. I'd rather have rookies making mistakes but have some nasty in them than seasoned over the hill vets who don't have it anymore. Time will tell.
Quote :
MOP, are you saying if the Steelers drafted an O-lineman in the first round, instead of Najee, the offense would have been better against the Bills? And better over the course of the season? And better over the next 5 years, which is how Colbert measures his success?
no im not saying that at all. im saying givin the many glaring needs this team faced going into the off season, IMO the best option would have been to financially regroup, overhaul the roster ,be a big player in 2022 free agency and come out swinging in 2022. they didnt go that route. they think they can be competitive now , 5 years be damned. i wouldnt have drafted a linemen at 24. i thought the only ones worthy of the 24th pick would be gone and they were. i thought trading back 10-15 spots would be the smart move to grab a linemen, particularly one of the centers and grab an extra 3rd in the process. perhaps they tried and couldnt find a trading partner, but the way they ran to the podium to turn in that harris pick in, makes me think they got what they wanted. i dont hate the pick and i Really wanted a tight end. they added 2 guys to the roster that were arguably the best options at their positions. thats a good thing , but it is not a build from the ground up approach. im a firm believe of it all starts in the trenches.
Quote :
Seeing the week 1 starting lineup, I was thinking the Steelers just might have had one of the top drafts across the NFL (6 starters!).
its either that or the vets they had on the roster are subpar.
Quote :
Dan Moore has been a big surprise and I would argue his ceiling is much higher. Didn't he grade out near the top of the rookie O-linemen after week 1? I think you posted that Green was pulled from Sunday's game because he was too aggressive?
i havent seen PFF's grades so i cant speak to that. all i know is there was no running room for the RB and Ben had very little time to get rid of the ball. my post wasn't meant to shit all over the rookies and suggest they dont have a future. but the moves they have made indicate they are trying to win now. personally i think starting all of those rookies says more about the vets on the roster than the rookies. i watched kendrick green get beat like a rented mule often . what does that say about the guy behind him on the roster ?
Quote :
Turner is really good, as long as injuries don't pop up on him.
Turner WAS good in the past. nothing from that first game indicates he has returned to that form. time will tell. Decastro was a solid player, until he wasnt.
Quote :
Dotson was a positive surprise last year and should get better.
agreed
Quote :
Chuks is the weak link on that line. To answer your question about why the Steelers think he'll be better at LT than RT, it's because he predominantly he was a more natural LT than RT in college (and I have to assume they see it in practice as well). But Chuks might not be able to push Moore out when Banner is healthy. I liked what I heard about Banner in last year's training camp and preseason ... how strong he was in the run game. Get him and Turner working together, look out! In time, this O-line could become really good.
every year leading up to the draft lesser college LT's get slapped with the RT tag by draft pundits. RT is regarded as the "easier" position to play. i guess mainly because teams usually have their best pass rusher on the left side. speaking from experience as a high school linemen who at least practiced at every position on the line at some point but center over the 4 years , i am a firm believer that it is all about the individuals comfort level in moving in a direction from a 3 point. going to the left felt far more natural to me than moving right. perhaps he will be better at LT. max starks was.
Quote :
But I'm up for playing your game.. Who should the Steelers have selected in the 1st round instead of Najee? And who would they have taken as a RB, or would you prefer Snell as your feature back?
oh SNELL no (see what i did there) i didnt like the snell pick when they made it. i thought he was just a lesser james connor. as for the first round, if trading back was not an option , i would have probably taken najee but considered one of the CB's . remember the CB situation was a big ? prior to the draft. as for who i would have taken if not najee in the first, that depend on if i had traded back for an extra pick. RB would not have been on my list till the 4th pick at earliest. they could have waited till next year to look for a premium back. we have hindsight to see how the draft fell, but change just one thing like the steelers trading back, or picking a different player in the 1st , and while some of the team picks would be the same, many will change. a player who may not have been available when the steelers picked in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th might have been available if they didnt draft najee. like dillion randuz in the 2nd or sermon in the 3rd .
with all that said i do expect improvement. i just dont think it will be enough to be a serious contender. i cant remember the last time the steelers played 4 solid quarters of football.
Subject: Re: Steelers @ Bills Sunday Sept 12 (Pregame & Gameday Thread) Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:12 am
Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
kirklandrules wrote:
solardave wrote:
Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
SteelerFreak58 wrote:
Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
there was someone on this forum that said over and over that prioritizing a RB over oline in the draft was a mistake. they used a phrase that had something about a cart and a horse in it. they thought putting a quality RB behind a shitty oline would be a waste of talent. they also wanted to trade back. now who was that. too soon ?
There were a few of us selling that narrative...
there was...and others going najee !!! najee !!! najee might have been a bit more successful on any RB on the roster last year because of his shear talent, but we still would have had a shitty running game. what they have done so far personnel wise i dont believe will make a huge difference THIS year. i wanted the first 3 or even 4 rounds to be dedicated to blockers. take 2 players at a single position and you increase your odds of finding a keeper. chuks was not impressive at RT so why would they think he might be a LT ? Banner hasnt been on the field long enough to decide if he has starting potential at all. green was a mid round pick on NOBODIES rader. turner was a gamble he would return to form. but hey we got the best RB in the draft...so who cares .. if these guys dont improve quick, ben and najee will finish the season on IR.
I think they will improve. The fact that they got better in the 2nd half last week leads me to believe there's hope. I'd rather have rookies making mistakes but have some nasty in them than seasoned over the hill vets who don't have it anymore. Time will tell.
Quote :
MOP, are you saying if the Steelers drafted an O-lineman in the first round, instead of Najee, the offense would have been better against the Bills? And better over the course of the season? And better over the next 5 years, which is how Colbert measures his success?
no im not saying that at all. im saying givin the many glaring needs this team faced going into the off season, IMO the best option would have been to financially regroup, overhaul the roster ,be a big player in 2022 free agency and come out swinging in 2022. they didnt go that route. they think they can be competitive now , 5 years be damned. i wouldnt have drafted a linemen at 24. i thought the only ones worthy of the 24th pick would be gone and they were. i thought trading back 10-15 spots would be the smart move to grab a linemen, particularly one of the centers and grab an extra 3rd in the process. perhaps they tried and couldnt find a trading partner, but the way they ran to the podium to turn in that harris pick in, makes me think they got what they wanted. i dont hate the pick and i Really wanted a tight end. they added 2 guys to the roster that were arguably the best options at their positions. thats a good thing , but it is not a build from the ground up approach. im a firm believe of it all starts in the trenches.
Quote :
Seeing the week 1 starting lineup, I was thinking the Steelers just might have had one of the top drafts across the NFL (6 starters!).
its either that or the vets they had on the roster are subpar.
Quote :
Dan Moore has been a big surprise and I would argue his ceiling is much higher. Didn't he grade out near the top of the rookie O-linemen after week 1? I think you posted that Green was pulled from Sunday's game because he was too aggressive?
i havent seen PFF's grades so i cant speak to that. all i know is there was no running room for the RB and Ben had very little time to get rid of the ball. my post wasn't meant to shit all over the rookies and suggest they dont have a future. but the moves they have made indicate they are trying to win now. personally i think starting all of those rookies says more about the vets on the roster than the rookies. i watched kendrick green get beat like a rented mule often . what does that say about the guy behind him on the roster ?
Quote :
Turner is really good, as long as injuries don't pop up on him.
Turner WAS good in the past. nothing from that first game indicates he has returned to that form. time will tell. Decastro was a solid player, until he wasnt.
Quote :
Dotson was a positive surprise last year and should get better.
agreed
Quote :
Chuks is the weak link on that line. To answer your question about why the Steelers think he'll be better at LT than RT, it's because he predominantly he was a more natural LT than RT in college (and I have to assume they see it in practice as well). But Chuks might not be able to push Moore out when Banner is healthy. I liked what I heard about Banner in last year's training camp and preseason ... how strong he was in the run game. Get him and Turner working together, look out! In time, this O-line could become really good.
every year leading up to the draft lesser college LT's get slapped with the RT tag by draft pundits. RT is regarded as the "easier" position to play. i guess mainly because teams usually have their best pass rusher on the left side. speaking from experience as a high school linemen who at least practiced at every position on the line at some point but center over the 4 years , i am a firm believer that it is all about the individuals comfort level in moving in a direction from a 3 point. going to the left felt far more natural to me than moving right. perhaps he will be better at LT. max starks was.
Quote :
But I'm up for playing your game.. Who should the Steelers have selected in the 1st round instead of Najee? And who would they have taken as a RB, or would you prefer Snell as your feature back?
oh SNELL no (see what i did there) i didnt like the snell pick when they made it. i thought he was just a lesser james connor. as for the first round, if trading back was not an option , i would have probably taken najee but considered one of the CB's . remember the CB situation was a big ? prior to the draft. as for who i would have taken if not najee in the first, that depend on if i had traded back for an extra pick. RB would not have been on my list till the 4th pick at earliest. they could have waited till next year to look for a premium back. we have hindsight to see how the draft fell, but change just one thing like the steelers trading back, or picking a different player in the 1st , and while some of the team picks would be the same, many will change. a player who may not have been available when the steelers picked in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th might have been available if they didnt draft najee. like dillion randuz in the 2nd or sermon in the 3rd .
with all that said i do expect improvement. i just dont think it will be enough to be a serious contender. i cant remember the last time the steelers played 4 solid quarters of football.
All good point, as I would only expect
I am a believer in Trai Turner. Living in the Charlotte area and seeing plenty of Panthers football, I was able to see he is really good. And you are right that he was good until his injury and there's no guarantee he can return to form, like DeCastro struggled after injuries. But Turner's injury was a soft tissue injury (groin) that hosed his 2020 season. I don't know what happened that the Chargers decided to totally dump the guy. My thought was the Steelers medical staff could evaluate that injury and easily determine if it was healed. If his groin is good, there's no reason to believe he will be unable to return to Pro-Bowl form. Hell, he's 28 and should be right in his prime.
I read an article during training camp (wish I could find it, but not able to ... if anyone comes across it, it's worth posting a link here) that walked through the Steelers draft to debunk the myth they had a bad draft (most "analysts" gave them a C grad). I'm going to do a poor job recreating that article, but it started by stating the Steelers got the best RB in the draft and one of the best TEs. It went back to who was on the board during the Steelers' picks to show who would have been there at alternative positions. For instance, the top Tackles were already off the board by the Steelers' first pick so the value wasn't there (the next best Tackle after the Steelers pick was Teven Jenkins taken at 39, who I wasn't a fan of anyways). None of the Centers were worth a 1st round grade. One point I got a laugh out of was some analyst saying Kendrick Green had short arms (just a way of saying the Steelers missed on their Center pick). But Creed Humphrey's arms are shorter But one main point of the article was the huge difference between Harris and the next best backs still on the board for the Steelers in the 2nd round (remember, the 2 best backs were off the board in the 1st round and even Javonte Williams went early 2nd round). Hell Trey Sermon went in the 3rd round at the 88th pick. Same thing applies to TE. Pitts was long gone in the 1st round. Freiermouth was the 2nd TE taken in the draft and the next TE went in the 3rd round at pick 83. If you wanted value at the offensive skill position, the Steelers did the best they could with what they had. But with O-line, there was value all through the draft ... so why go with someone early when there wasn't that big of a drop off by waiting until rounds 3 and 4?
IDK, not trying to sound like a homer or that the Steelers got an A+ draft. But with the cards they were dealt and the benefit of seeing how some of these guys are panning out, I think they did about as well as they could have.
Winning now might have required heavily mortgaging the future to bring in FA offensive studs (and potentially not having the money to sign Watt and Fitzpatrick). Instead, they drafted a few high quality skill position guys, brought in some veteran o-linemen (of questionable value), and drafted the best linemen they could get. Sometimes you have to make the best of what you got and in the Steelers way, ensure you are not only trying to put wins up today, but as many as you can get tomorrow too.
LambertWardSteel likes this post
LambertWardSteel
Posts : 1643 Join date : 2015-05-14 Location : Myerstown PA
there was someone on this forum that said over and over that prioritizing a RB over oline in the draft was a mistake. they used a phrase that had something about a cart and a horse in it. they thought putting a quality RB behind a shitty oline would be a waste of talent. they also wanted to trade back. now who was that. too soon ?
There were a few of us selling that narrative...
there was...and others going najee !!! najee !!! najee might have been a bit more successful on any RB on the roster last year because of his shear talent, but we still would have had a shitty running game. what they have done so far personnel wise i dont believe will make a huge difference THIS year. i wanted the first 3 or even 4 rounds to be dedicated to blockers. take 2 players at a single position and you increase your odds of finding a keeper. chuks was not impressive at RT so why would they think he might be a LT ? Banner hasnt been on the field long enough to decide if he has starting potential at all. green was a mid round pick on NOBODIES rader. turner was a gamble he would return to form. but hey we got the best RB in the draft...so who cares .. if these guys dont improve quick, ben and najee will finish the season on IR.
I think they will improve. The fact that they got better in the 2nd half last week leads me to believe there's hope. I'd rather have rookies making mistakes but have some nasty in them than seasoned over the hill vets who don't have it anymore. Time will tell.
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MOP, are you saying if the Steelers drafted an O-lineman in the first round, instead of Najee, the offense would have been better against the Bills? And better over the course of the season? And better over the next 5 years, which is how Colbert measures his success?
no im not saying that at all. im saying givin the many glaring needs this team faced going into the off season, IMO the best option would have been to financially regroup, overhaul the roster ,be a big player in 2022 free agency and come out swinging in 2022. they didnt go that route. they think they can be competitive now , 5 years be damned. i wouldnt have drafted a linemen at 24. i thought the only ones worthy of the 24th pick would be gone and they were. i thought trading back 10-15 spots would be the smart move to grab a linemen, particularly one of the centers and grab an extra 3rd in the process. perhaps they tried and couldnt find a trading partner, but the way they ran to the podium to turn in that harris pick in, makes me think they got what they wanted. i dont hate the pick and i Really wanted a tight end. they added 2 guys to the roster that were arguably the best options at their positions. thats a good thing , but it is not a build from the ground up approach. im a firm believe of it all starts in the trenches.
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Seeing the week 1 starting lineup, I was thinking the Steelers just might have had one of the top drafts across the NFL (6 starters!).
its either that or the vets they had on the roster are subpar.
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Dan Moore has been a big surprise and I would argue his ceiling is much higher. Didn't he grade out near the top of the rookie O-linemen after week 1? I think you posted that Green was pulled from Sunday's game because he was too aggressive?
i havent seen PFF's grades so i cant speak to that. all i know is there was no running room for the RB and Ben had very little time to get rid of the ball. my post wasn't meant to shit all over the rookies and suggest they dont have a future. but the moves they have made indicate they are trying to win now. personally i think starting all of those rookies says more about the vets on the roster than the rookies. i watched kendrick green get beat like a rented mule often . what does that say about the guy behind him on the roster ?
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Turner is really good, as long as injuries don't pop up on him.
Turner WAS good in the past. nothing from that first game indicates he has returned to that form. time will tell. Decastro was a solid player, until he wasnt.
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Dotson was a positive surprise last year and should get better.
agreed
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Chuks is the weak link on that line. To answer your question about why the Steelers think he'll be better at LT than RT, it's because he predominantly he was a more natural LT than RT in college (and I have to assume they see it in practice as well). But Chuks might not be able to push Moore out when Banner is healthy. I liked what I heard about Banner in last year's training camp and preseason ... how strong he was in the run game. Get him and Turner working together, look out! In time, this O-line could become really good.
every year leading up to the draft lesser college LT's get slapped with the RT tag by draft pundits. RT is regarded as the "easier" position to play. i guess mainly because teams usually have their best pass rusher on the left side. speaking from experience as a high school linemen who at least practiced at every position on the line at some point but center over the 4 years , i am a firm believer that it is all about the individuals comfort level in moving in a direction from a 3 point. going to the left felt far more natural to me than moving right. perhaps he will be better at LT. max starks was.
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But I'm up for playing your game.. Who should the Steelers have selected in the 1st round instead of Najee? And who would they have taken as a RB, or would you prefer Snell as your feature back?
oh SNELL no (see what i did there) i didnt like the snell pick when they made it. i thought he was just a lesser james connor. as for the first round, if trading back was not an option , i would have probably taken najee but considered one of the CB's . remember the CB situation was a big ? prior to the draft. as for who i would have taken if not najee in the first, that depend on if i had traded back for an extra pick. RB would not have been on my list till the 4th pick at earliest. they could have waited till next year to look for a premium back. we have hindsight to see how the draft fell, but change just one thing like the steelers trading back, or picking a different player in the 1st , and while some of the team picks would be the same, many will change. a player who may not have been available when the steelers picked in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th might have been available if they didnt draft najee. like dillion randuz in the 2nd or sermon in the 3rd .
with all that said i do expect improvement. i just dont think it will be enough to be a serious contender. i cant remember the last time the steelers played 4 solid quarters of football.
Winning now might have required heavily mortgaging the future to bring in FA offensive studs (and potentially not having the money to sign Watt and Fitzpatrick). Instead, they drafted a few high quality skill position guys, brought in some veteran o-linemen (of questionable value), and drafted the best linemen they could get. Sometimes you have to make the best of what you got and in the Steelers way, ensure you are not only trying to put wins up today, but as many as you can get tomorrow too.
I agree with this. I wish they could have had multiple high OL picks to go with Freiermuth and Harris. Losing DeCastro after the draft complicated things too. Maybe they do things differently had they known. Argument can be made on both sides of this; they could have drafted OL 1st and 2nd then we're running with Snell as starter plus a new 3rd pick RB, and throwing to maybe the best corps of WR in football, Snell/3rd round RB, and 4th round TE/Ebron. The other side is what we are seeing right now. Neither are ideal. In the end I feel like Harris and Freiermuth are going to be great players and it's not often we get players their caliber at RB and TE because of where we draft every year.
I feel like this is a work in progress and the OL improves with time but we may still see running struggles because teams may play us to stop the run and force passing. OL and secondary are likely high in draft next year. In the end this is part of a 2-3 year plan.
there was someone on this forum that said over and over that prioritizing a RB over oline in the draft was a mistake. they used a phrase that had something about a cart and a horse in it. they thought putting a quality RB behind a shitty oline would be a waste of talent. they also wanted to trade back. now who was that. too soon ?
There were a few of us selling that narrative...
there was...and others going najee !!! najee !!! najee might have been a bit more successful on any RB on the roster last year because of his shear talent, but we still would have had a shitty running game. what they have done so far personnel wise i dont believe will make a huge difference THIS year. i wanted the first 3 or even 4 rounds to be dedicated to blockers. take 2 players at a single position and you increase your odds of finding a keeper. chuks was not impressive at RT so why would they think he might be a LT ? Banner hasnt been on the field long enough to decide if he has starting potential at all. green was a mid round pick on NOBODIES rader. turner was a gamble he would return to form. but hey we got the best RB in the draft...so who cares .. if these guys dont improve quick, ben and najee will finish the season on IR.
I think they will improve. The fact that they got better in the 2nd half last week leads me to believe there's hope. I'd rather have rookies making mistakes but have some nasty in them than seasoned over the hill vets who don't have it anymore. Time will tell.
Quote :
MOP, are you saying if the Steelers drafted an O-lineman in the first round, instead of Najee, the offense would have been better against the Bills? And better over the course of the season? And better over the next 5 years, which is how Colbert measures his success?
no im not saying that at all. im saying givin the many glaring needs this team faced going into the off season, IMO the best option would have been to financially regroup, overhaul the roster ,be a big player in 2022 free agency and come out swinging in 2022. they didnt go that route. they think they can be competitive now , 5 years be damned. i wouldnt have drafted a linemen at 24. i thought the only ones worthy of the 24th pick would be gone and they were. i thought trading back 10-15 spots would be the smart move to grab a linemen, particularly one of the centers and grab an extra 3rd in the process. perhaps they tried and couldnt find a trading partner, but the way they ran to the podium to turn in that harris pick in, makes me think they got what they wanted. i dont hate the pick and i Really wanted a tight end. they added 2 guys to the roster that were arguably the best options at their positions. thats a good thing , but it is not a build from the ground up approach. im a firm believe of it all starts in the trenches.
Quote :
Seeing the week 1 starting lineup, I was thinking the Steelers just might have had one of the top drafts across the NFL (6 starters!).
its either that or the vets they had on the roster are subpar.
Quote :
Dan Moore has been a big surprise and I would argue his ceiling is much higher. Didn't he grade out near the top of the rookie O-linemen after week 1? I think you posted that Green was pulled from Sunday's game because he was too aggressive?
i havent seen PFF's grades so i cant speak to that. all i know is there was no running room for the RB and Ben had very little time to get rid of the ball. my post wasn't meant to shit all over the rookies and suggest they dont have a future. but the moves they have made indicate they are trying to win now. personally i think starting all of those rookies says more about the vets on the roster than the rookies. i watched kendrick green get beat like a rented mule often . what does that say about the guy behind him on the roster ?
Quote :
Turner is really good, as long as injuries don't pop up on him.
Turner WAS good in the past. nothing from that first game indicates he has returned to that form. time will tell. Decastro was a solid player, until he wasnt.
Quote :
Dotson was a positive surprise last year and should get better.
agreed
Quote :
Chuks is the weak link on that line. To answer your question about why the Steelers think he'll be better at LT than RT, it's because he predominantly he was a more natural LT than RT in college (and I have to assume they see it in practice as well). But Chuks might not be able to push Moore out when Banner is healthy. I liked what I heard about Banner in last year's training camp and preseason ... how strong he was in the run game. Get him and Turner working together, look out! In time, this O-line could become really good.
every year leading up to the draft lesser college LT's get slapped with the RT tag by draft pundits. RT is regarded as the "easier" position to play. i guess mainly because teams usually have their best pass rusher on the left side. speaking from experience as a high school linemen who at least practiced at every position on the line at some point but center over the 4 years , i am a firm believer that it is all about the individuals comfort level in moving in a direction from a 3 point. going to the left felt far more natural to me than moving right. perhaps he will be better at LT. max starks was.
Quote :
But I'm up for playing your game.. Who should the Steelers have selected in the 1st round instead of Najee? And who would they have taken as a RB, or would you prefer Snell as your feature back?
oh SNELL no (see what i did there) i didnt like the snell pick when they made it. i thought he was just a lesser james connor. as for the first round, if trading back was not an option , i would have probably taken najee but considered one of the CB's . remember the CB situation was a big ? prior to the draft. as for who i would have taken if not najee in the first, that depend on if i had traded back for an extra pick. RB would not have been on my list till the 4th pick at earliest. they could have waited till next year to look for a premium back. we have hindsight to see how the draft fell, but change just one thing like the steelers trading back, or picking a different player in the 1st , and while some of the team picks would be the same, many will change. a player who may not have been available when the steelers picked in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th might have been available if they didnt draft najee. like dillion randuz in the 2nd or sermon in the 3rd .
with all that said i do expect improvement. i just dont think it will be enough to be a serious contender. i cant remember the last time the steelers played 4 solid quarters of football.
Winning now might have required heavily mortgaging the future to bring in FA offensive studs (and potentially not having the money to sign Watt and Fitzpatrick). Instead, they drafted a few high quality skill position guys, brought in some veteran o-linemen (of questionable value), and drafted the best linemen they could get. Sometimes you have to make the best of what you got and in the Steelers way, ensure you are not only trying to put wins up today, but as many as you can get tomorrow too.
I agree with this. I wish they could have had multiple high OL picks to go with Freiermuth and Harris. Losing DeCastro after the draft complicated things too. Maybe they do things differently had they known. Argument can be made on both sides of this; they could have drafted OL 1st and 2nd then we're running with Snell as starter plus a new 3rd pick RB, and throwing to maybe the best corps of WR in football, Snell/3rd round RB, and 4th round TE/Ebron. The other side is what we are seeing right now. Neither are ideal. In the end I feel like Harris and Freiermuth are going to be great players and it's not often we get players their caliber at RB and TE because of where we draft every year.
I feel like this is a work in progress and the OL improves with time but we may still see running struggles because teams may play us to stop the run and force passing. OL and secondary are likely high in draft next year. In the end this is part of a 2-3 year plan.
I would say in the two games thus far, the opponents have been pushing up and limiting running and easily tackling the short throws. They will continue to do that until the deep throw shows team they need to step back. Ben tried a few times to go deep, but he was off target. Show that you can hurt teams playing close to the line of scrimmage and they will change. And it doesn't matter that Ben gets hit. Derek Carr was hit and he still made his deep throws.
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Indeed, as I stated after the Buffalo game I wanted them to throw deep early so that the Raiders wouldn't box the line of scrimmage so much. They did that, but to succeed that requires Ben to complete a decent amount of those passes and that's where he failed. Our offense will stall against good teams as long as he isn't accurate in those situations.
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no (see what i did there) i didnt like the snell pick when they made it. i thought he was just a lesser james connor. as for the first round, if trading back was not an option , i would have probably taken najee but considered one of the CB's . remember the CB situation was a big ? prior to the draft.
But one main point of the article was the huge difference between Harris and the next best backs still on the board for the Steelers in the 2nd round (remember, the 2 best backs were off the board in the 1st round and even Javonte Williams went early 2nd round). Hell Trey Sermon went in the 3rd round at the 88th pick. Same thing applies to TE. Pitts was long gone in the 1st round. Freiermouth was the 2nd TE taken in the draft and the next TE went in the 3rd round at pick 83. If you wanted value at the offensive skill position, the Steelers did the best they could with what they had. But with O-line, there was value all through the draft ... so why go with someone early when there wasn't that big of a drop off by waiting until rounds 3 and 4?