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Stella Nation

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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptySun Apr 21, 2024 8:30 am

There are rumors that most teams prefer Frazier over JPJ.

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Stella Nation

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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptySun Apr 21, 2024 8:35 am

Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
Stella Nation wrote:
Stella Nation wrote:
For what it's worth:

https://steelersdepot.com/2024/04/pauline-nfl-believes-steelers-will-draft-duke-ol-graham-barton-in-first-round/

Pauline has a pretty good record when it comes to draft rumors. He isn't perfect of course and a lot can happen.

I just found an interesting stat about Tony Pauline on Walterfootball. Since 2013 he has been right on draft rumors 51 out of 95 times, so 53,68%.
https://walterfootball.com/draft2023rumorsresults.php

Personally, I have a feeling the Steelers won't draft a center at 20, but will go CB or RT or trade down and then grab a center later in the first round. I just don't think the value is there at 20 to draft a center. What I've read is that none of the teams see JPJ, Barton or Frazier as a top 25 prospect in this class.
value is subjective. the value is whatever someone is willing to pay. the ravens valued linderbaum at pick 25. they got a starting pro bowl center. the chiefs valued creed humphrey at pick 63. they got a starting probowl center. who got more value the ravens with linderbaum or the steelers and pickett ?
was najee a better value as a 24th pick or would have creed been the better value at that same pick ? i'm on record on this very forum saying i would take creed in the first despite the "experts" having a lower value on him. if you think a guy can come in and contribute  year 1 and be a solid starter for a decade, he is 1st round worthy.

Oh, I agree with you. I would try to trade down a bit and draft a center and if that isn't possible I would take my preferred choice of them at 20. I just fear if the Steelers can't or won't trade down they grab a RT or CB.
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SteelerFreak58

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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptySun Apr 21, 2024 1:55 pm

Top centers are gonna fall to rd#2 calling it right here. One of the top 3 will be there at 51.


Last edited by SteelerFreak58 on Mon Apr 22, 2024 12:51 am; edited 1 time in total

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Master_Of_Puppets

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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptySun Apr 21, 2024 10:21 pm

i think they will go with the odds. the odds of getting a C , WR, or a CB in rd 2 are better than getting a T.
i can also see them bringing in another low tier center to camp. maybe brian allen. he cant be any worse than cole.

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Great Randino




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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptySun Apr 21, 2024 10:29 pm

Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
i think they will go with the odds. the odds of getting a C , WR, or a CB in rd 2 are better than getting a T.
i can also see them bringing in another low tier center to camp.  maybe brian allen. he cant be any worse than cole.  
You could be right.

Me, I don't personally think any of the 3 will still be on the board by 51. I'm still in the corner of "Get your franchise Center right now" mode. Yes, we would miss out on tackle. But I don't think we get a good tackle AND center by picking #20 and #51. By 51, neither position will have players of value.

Just my opinion, but I've been wrong before and prepared to be wrong again!

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Master_Of_Puppets

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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptyTue Apr 23, 2024 12:10 am

only one time over the last 20 years , 2018, has more than 2 centers been drafted before the 51st pick. in 2018 there were 4.
i keep going back and 4th on this. on one hand, none of this years crop has the hype or reputation that tyler linderbaum, markice pouncey, nick mangold or alex mack had. these guys this year are not viewed as cant miss prospects.

then on the other hand it may be more teams than usual need a center. unlike tackle and guard there is only one center. most good centers get 2nd and 3rd contracts from their original teams so there isnt a big demand for centers.

we cant ignore history. there is a much better chance that one of the top 3 will be there than not.

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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptyTue Apr 23, 2024 1:21 am

Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
only one time over the last 20 years , 2018, has more than 2 centers been drafted before the 51st pick. in 2018 there were 4.
i keep going back and 4th on this. on one hand, none of this years crop has the hype or reputation that tyler linderbaum, markice pouncey, nick mangold or alex mack  had. these guys this year are not viewed as cant miss prospects.
     
then on the other hand it may be more teams than usual need a center. unlike tackle and guard there is only one center. most good centers get 2nd and 3rd contracts from their original teams so there isnt a big demand for centers.

we cant ignore history. there is a much better chance that one of the top 3 will be there than not.

I've seen a lot of mocks and a lot of different directions they can go. One I saw recently was Thomas (WR) out of LSU with the 20th pick. I wouldn't hate that - especially if you're right, and there's still one of the top 3 centers available at 51.

Regardless, it's going to be a fascinating night and I for one am looking forward to it.
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptyTue Apr 23, 2024 2:45 am

Tomlin is saying we are in a position to pick BPA @20. He also said there are a couple of guys already on the roster who can play center. "can play center" is not good enough. We've been spoiled to have Pouncey,Dawson,and Webster. We need to get back there.
https://www.nfl.com/news/2024-nfl-draft-buzz-latest-league-news-rumors-from-monday-ahead-of-thursday-s-round-1

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Stella Nation

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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptyTue Apr 23, 2024 3:17 am

I guess if they don't draft a starting center they will move Daniels to center. Need someone to start at guard in that case.
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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptyTue Apr 23, 2024 4:16 am

solardave wrote:
Tomlin is saying we are in a position to pick BPA @20. He also said there are a couple of guys already on the roster who can play center. "can play center" is not good enough. We've been spoiled to have Pouncey,Dawson,and Webster. We need to get back there.
https://www.nfl.com/news/2024-nfl-draft-buzz-latest-league-news-rumors-from-monday-ahead-of-thursday-s-round-1

indeed. mason cole "played" at center. doing something and doing it well , are entirely different things. daniels was actually a center in college. he was the 4th center drafted of the 2018 draft i referenced. he was the 39th pick. personally i think daniels has been a bit disappointing for his pay grade. i'm assuming the other, who can "play" at "center" , is nate herbig.
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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptyTue Apr 23, 2024 5:57 am

So it looks like Tomlin will lean on either Daniels or Herbig. Wilson working - Page 3 2893009358 I have a feeling pick #1 will surprise us. Maybe it's a punter who played center in Pop Warner. Or a 300 pound Safety that can play NT.
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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptyTue Apr 23, 2024 9:55 am

solardave wrote:
So it looks like Tomlin will lean on either Daniels or Herbig. Wilson working - Page 3 2893009358 I have a feeling pick #1 will surprise us. Maybe it's a punter who played center in Pop Warner. Or a 300 pound Safety that can play NT.

Tomlin likes that "versatility"! Wilson working - Page 3 3562723908
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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptyTue Apr 23, 2024 11:25 am

solardave wrote:
Tomlin is saying we are in a position to pick BPA @20. He also said there are a couple of guys already on the roster who can play center. "can play center" is not good enough. We've been spoiled to have Pouncey,Dawson,and Webster. We need to get back there.
https://www.nfl.com/news/2024-nfl-draft-buzz-latest-league-news-rumors-from-monday-ahead-of-thursday-s-round-1
/

Well, the truth is, no intelligent team is going to tip their hand at this point. Lots of smoke being blown right now to distract others.

Time will tell. I think they could go a couple different ways.
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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptyTue Apr 23, 2024 4:05 pm

I was listening to Movin' the Chains (XM Sirius radio, NFL station). They were talking Steelers. Here's what their take was....

You can get a tackle in the first round but not the second. You can get a center later. 2nd round, possibly even 3rd.

They like Guyton. Mims not so much. So, get Guyton.

You have two 3rds. You can package that with the #51 to move up if neccessary and draft Zach Frazier. Now you have two starting linemen from this draft.

Regarding receiver - they can be had later. Also, they like some of the free agent receiver signings.
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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptyWed Apr 24, 2024 2:54 am

How can you draft a receiver later if you've traded away your two 3rds and your #51 to get Frazier? Hope you get lucky in the 4th round? We need more draft picks, not less.

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SteelerFreak58

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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptyWed Apr 24, 2024 9:59 am

Two thirds for a move up in the second isn't worth it. Maybe the late third and a sixth but not both 3rds.
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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptyWed Apr 24, 2024 11:33 am

SteelerFreak58 wrote:
Two thirds for a move up in the second isn't worth it. Maybe the late third and a sixth but not both 3rds.

Guys, I said it awkwardly.  I meant to say trade One of the 3rds, not both of them.  That's what Move the chains was suggesting.

My bad.

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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptyThu Apr 25, 2024 2:07 am

https://www.steelers.com/
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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptyThu Apr 25, 2024 4:30 am

Great Randino wrote:
SteelerFreak58 wrote:
Two thirds for a move up in the second isn't worth it. Maybe the late third and a sixth but not both 3rds.

Guys, I said it awkwardly.  I meant to say trade One of the 3rds, not both of them.  That's what Move the chains was suggesting.

My bad.

Sounds better, but even then I wouldn't do it. We need C, OT, WR and CB. Those are all HUGH needs so we can't afford to lose one of our picks in the first 3 rounds. We have 4 picks in those rounds and we need all 4 of them. The only way it could work out is they first would trade down a couple of spots in the first rounds and pick up an extra 3rd, still pick up one of the top OT prospects in the first, and then use that extra 3rd (or one of the other thirds) to move up again to grab one of the centers.

I've read something interesting on walterfootball. Charlie Campbell who works for them has great intel on what teams think about players in general, his mock drafts are usually very accurate compared to other "experts". A couple of years ago he predicted that Terrell Edmunds would be drafted in the first round (which was a surprise to everyone else) by either the Colts or the Steelers. Now he made a list of 3 players that are overhyped by the media and 3 players that are underrated by them when he surveyed team sources.

Overhyped are: Zach Frazier C, Graham Barton OL and Zach Rosengarten OT.
Underrated are: Keon Coleman WR, Kris Jenkins DT and Sedrick Van Pran-Granger C.

Interesting to see 3 centers make this list (if you count Barton as a C).

Some of his other general takes this year:
* Edge rusher Laiatu Latu has a shot to be a top 10 pick because most team doctors medically cleared him.
* The Bills are looking to trade up in the first round for a WR, probably Brian Thomas or Xavier Worthy, but Thomas is their preferred choice.
* The Raiders are interested in QB Michael Penix, but 13 might be too high for him so they might target him in a trade up from the second round. If not taking Penix at 13, they are high on CB Quinyon Mitchell or one of the OT's.
* Teams found character issues with WR Adonai Mitchell and he also does a poor job of managing his type-1 diabetes.
* Other prospects with major character concers are: DT Michael Hall Jr, WR Jermaine Burton and DT T'Vondre Sweat.

So look out for us to draft Adonai Mitchell or Jermaine Burton somewhere Wilson working - Page 3 1664291743

Going to add his today's draft rumors:
https://walterfootball.com/nfl-hot-press-2024-nfl-draft-week-rumors-thursday.php
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Great Randino




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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptyThu Apr 25, 2024 12:12 pm

Stella Nation wrote:
Great Randino wrote:
SteelerFreak58 wrote:
Two thirds for a move up in the second isn't worth it. Maybe the late third and a sixth but not both 3rds.

Guys, I said it awkwardly.  I meant to say trade One of the 3rds, not both of them.  That's what Move the chains was suggesting.

My bad.

Sounds better, but even then I wouldn't do it. We need C, OT, WR and CB. Those are all HUGH needs so we can't afford to lose one of our picks in the first 3 rounds. We have 4 picks in those rounds and we need all 4 of them. The only way it could work out is they first would trade down a couple of spots in the first rounds and pick up an extra 3rd, still pick up one of the top OT prospects in the first, and then use that extra 3rd (or one of the other thirds) to move up again to grab one of the centers.

I've read something interesting on walterfootball. Charlie Campbell who works for them has great intel on what teams think about players in general, his mock drafts are usually very accurate compared to other "experts". A couple of years ago he predicted that Terrell Edmunds would be drafted in the first round (which was a surprise to everyone else) by either the Colts or the Steelers. Now he made a list of 3 players that are overhyped by the media and 3 players that are underrated by them when he surveyed team sources.

Overhyped are: Zach Frazier C, Graham Barton OL and Zach Rosengarten OT.
Underrated are: Keon Coleman WR, Kris Jenkins DT and Sedrick Van Pran-Granger C.

Interesting to see 3 centers make this list (if you count Barton as a C).

Some of his other general takes this year:
* Edge rusher Laiatu Latu has a shot to be a top 10 pick because most team doctors medically cleared him.
* The Bills are looking to trade up in the first round for a WR, probably Brian Thomas or Xavier Worthy, but Thomas is their preferred choice.
* The Raiders are interested in QB Michael Penix, but 13 might be too high for him so they might target him in a trade up from the second round. If not taking Penix at 13, they are high on CB Quinyon Mitchell or one of the OT's.
* Teams found character issues with WR Adonai Mitchell and he also does a poor job of managing his type-1 diabetes.
* Other prospects with major character concers are: DT Michael Hall Jr, WR Jermaine Burton and DT T'Vondre Sweat.

So look out for us to draft Adonai Mitchell or Jermaine Burton somewhere Wilson working - Page 3 1664291743

Going to add his today's draft rumors:
https://walterfootball.com/nfl-hot-press-2024-nfl-draft-week-rumors-thursday.php
I'm not sure CB is as big of a concern as some think.  Depends partly on what they think of Trice.  Center is certainly a big concern.  WR?  May depend on their opinion of their WR free agent signings.  Center should be a big need.  OT, yes.  Not a lot would surprise me.  First round QB would surprise me.  First round CB would surprise me (although some have mocked that).  

A good omen?  This draft is the 50th anniversary of the greatest draft class in NFL History:  the Steelers 1974 draft.  5 hall of famers added from that class (one an undrafted free agent).  Never happened before or since.
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SteelerFreak58

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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptyThu Apr 25, 2024 3:17 pm

Let's just get this shit over with... some of these mother fuckers have 6 or 7 mock drafts just so they can cherry pick and say they called such and such pick before the draft... Wilson working - Page 3 3562723908

I think there is zero need to move up in 1rd 1 maybe move up in rd 2 but only for that 4th rd pick we have.

If we come away with a solid RT and Center I think the rest of things will shake out. We have to fix the major problem and that's been the Oline for the last 4 years. If we don't all of the maneuvers they have made this year won't mean shit.

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Great Randino




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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptyThu Apr 25, 2024 3:56 pm

SteelerFreak58 wrote:
Let's just get this shit over with... some of these mother fuckers have 6 or 7 mock drafts just so they can cherry pick and say they called such and such pick before the draft... Wilson working - Page 3 3562723908

I think there is zero need to move up in 1rd 1 maybe move up in rd 2 but only for that 4th rd pick we have.

If we come away with a solid RT and Center I think the rest of things will shake out. We have to fix the major problem and that's been the Oline for the last 4 years. If we don't all of the maneuvers they have made this year won't mean shit.

You are spot on on the mocks. Best one I heard was Steelers moving up via a trade with the Broncos to get to 12 - to pick a cornerback. Like, WTF.

I agree with. your assessment, that would be ideal. Don't know if it will go that way but we will see.
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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptyThu Apr 25, 2024 5:27 pm

Great Randino wrote:
Stella Nation wrote:
Great Randino wrote:
SteelerFreak58 wrote:
Two thirds for a move up in the second isn't worth it. Maybe the late third and a sixth but not both 3rds.

Guys, I said it awkwardly.  I meant to say trade One of the 3rds, not both of them.  That's what Move the chains was suggesting.

My bad.

Sounds better, but even then I wouldn't do it. We need C, OT, WR and CB. Those are all HUGH needs so we can't afford to lose one of our picks in the first 3 rounds. We have 4 picks in those rounds and we need all 4 of them. The only way it could work out is they first would trade down a couple of spots in the first rounds and pick up an extra 3rd, still pick up one of the top OT prospects in the first, and then use that extra 3rd (or one of the other thirds) to move up again to grab one of the centers.

I've read something interesting on walterfootball. Charlie Campbell who works for them has great intel on what teams think about players in general, his mock drafts are usually very accurate compared to other "experts". A couple of years ago he predicted that Terrell Edmunds would be drafted in the first round (which was a surprise to everyone else) by either the Colts or the Steelers. Now he made a list of 3 players that are overhyped by the media and 3 players that are underrated by them when he surveyed team sources.

Overhyped are: Zach Frazier C, Graham Barton OL and Zach Rosengarten OT.
Underrated are: Keon Coleman WR, Kris Jenkins DT and Sedrick Van Pran-Granger C.

Interesting to see 3 centers make this list (if you count Barton as a C).

Some of his other general takes this year:
* Edge rusher Laiatu Latu has a shot to be a top 10 pick because most team doctors medically cleared him.
* The Bills are looking to trade up in the first round for a WR, probably Brian Thomas or Xavier Worthy, but Thomas is their preferred choice.
* The Raiders are interested in QB Michael Penix, but 13 might be too high for him so they might target him in a trade up from the second round. If not taking Penix at 13, they are high on CB Quinyon Mitchell or one of the OT's.
* Teams found character issues with WR Adonai Mitchell and he also does a poor job of managing his type-1 diabetes.
* Other prospects with major character concers are: DT Michael Hall Jr, WR Jermaine Burton and DT T'Vondre Sweat.

So look out for us to draft Adonai Mitchell or Jermaine Burton somewhere Wilson working - Page 3 1664291743

Going to add his today's draft rumors:
https://walterfootball.com/nfl-hot-press-2024-nfl-draft-week-rumors-thursday.php
I'm not sure CB is as big of a concern as some think.  Depends partly on what they think of Trice.  Center is certainly a big concern.  WR?  May depend on their opinion of their WR free agent signings.  Center should be a big need.  OT, yes.  Not a lot would surprise me.  First round QB would surprise me.  First round CB would surprise me (although some have mocked that).  

A good omen?  This draft is the 50th anniversary of the greatest draft class in NFL History:  the Steelers 1974 draft.  5 hall of famers added from that class (one an undrafted free agent).  Never happened before or since.

what they should be thinking about trice is....
we got this guy for super cheap because he cant stay healthy , then he blew a knee out the first day of padded practice but it was a non contact injury. Wilson working - Page 3 2829330259
maybe we shouldnt rely on this guy

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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptyThu Apr 25, 2024 9:18 pm

I still don't think CB is our biggest need. I'd call it a secondary need.

OL first.
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PostSubject: Re: Wilson working   Wilson working - Page 3 EmptySun May 19, 2024 11:31 pm

Fields isn’t taking Wilson’s job this season. Best thing he can do is work hard, throw away the VIP club card, be a good teammate and be ready, (Wilson is 36).

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