On the Steelers: Who needs defense anymore?

By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The playoffs resumed this weekend with the possibility of a historic matchup in the Super Bowl pitting the NFL's worst two defenses.

Yes, No. 32 Green Bay vs. No. 31 New England.

And where is the No. 1 defense? Home, after losing for the first time in the playoffs to a team without a winning record, a team with the No. 23 offense and No. 20 defense.

The Steelers had the No. 1 defense in 2011, stingiest in the NFL in allowing both points and yards, although its puny 15 takeaways should call for an asterisk

The lack of takeaways not only hurt the defense, it probably helped hold down an offense that ranked a respectable 12th in the NFL in yards produced but tied for a lousy 21st in points scored. Turnovers help produce points, and the defense did not help as it did in 2010 when the defense/special teams captured 35 loose footballs in one manner or another.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12015/1203721-66-0.stm?cmpid=steelers.xml#ixzz1jVGcvhMx

Quote :

Roethlisberger won't like this, but he also needs to change his approach. He has been the best quarterback at extending plays and making plays when he does. However, wouldn't it be nice if he could just complete the pass without all the drama? You know, with a quick release to one of those quick and speedy young receivers who can then do their thing after the catch?

Ed Bullchitte needs to learn that just isn't Ben's style. He's a sandlot Quarterback.

supytalpeht wrote:

Quote :

Roethlisberger won't like this, but he also needs to change his approach. He has been the best quarterback at extending plays and making plays when he does. However, wouldn't it be nice if he could just complete the pass without all the drama? You know, with a quick release to one of those quick and speedy young receivers who can then do their thing after the catch?

Ed Bullchitte needs to learn that just isn't Ben's style. He's a sandlot Quarterback.

Wouldn't that be coaching?

La Flama Blanca wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

Quote :

Roethlisberger won't like this, but he also needs to change his approach. He has been the best quarterback at extending plays and making plays when he does. However, wouldn't it be nice if he could just complete the pass without all the drama? You know, with a quick release to one of those quick and speedy young receivers who can then do their thing after the catch?

Ed Bullchitte needs to learn that just isn't Ben's style. He's a sandlot Quarterback.

Wouldn't that be coaching?

Quote :

to showcase his receiving ability for when Roethlisberger alters his style in 2012 with that new quick release he always has had in his arsenal but has been reluctant to use.

He's had 3 different offensive coordinators in the NFL and two different head coaches, but has always played the same way. No one can force him to play a certain way. THey can tell him, they can show him on film, they can practice it until the cows come home. But, until he gets it through his head it's not going to happen. He's a 30 year old man making 100 million dollars. Part of his job is watching film for hours every day. Unless he's a complete freaking dumbass there's no possible way he doesn't see the difference between what he does and what Brady, Rogers, and Brees do.

supytalpeht wrote:

La Flama Blanca wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

Quote :

Roethlisberger won't like this, but he also needs to change his approach. He has been the best quarterback at extending plays and making plays when he does. However, wouldn't it be nice if he could just complete the pass without all the drama? You know, with a quick release to one of those quick and speedy young receivers who can then do their thing after the catch?

Ed Bullchitte needs to learn that just isn't Ben's style. He's a sandlot Quarterback.

Wouldn't that be coaching?

Quote :

to showcase his receiving ability for when Roethlisberger alters his style in 2012 with that new quick release he always has had in his arsenal but has been reluctant to use.

He's had 3 different offensive coordinators in the NFL and two different head coaches, but has always played the same way. No one can force him to play a certain way. THey can tell him, they can show him on film, they can practice it until the cows come home. But, until he gets it through his head it's not going to happen. He's a 30 year old man making 100 million dollars. Part of his job is watching film for hours every day. Unless he's a complete freaking dumbass there's no possible way he doesn't see the difference between what he does and what Brady, Rogers, and Brees do.

and it must suck watching Brady, Rogers, and Brees offensive lines block for them.

effyou515 wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

La Flama Blanca wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

Quote :

Roethlisberger won't like this, but he also needs to change his approach. He has been the best quarterback at extending plays and making plays when he does. However, wouldn't it be nice if he could just complete the pass without all the drama? You know, with a quick release to one of those quick and speedy young receivers who can then do their thing after the catch?

Ed Bullchitte needs to learn that just isn't Ben's style. He's a sandlot Quarterback.

Wouldn't that be coaching?

Quote :

to showcase his receiving ability for when Roethlisberger alters his style in 2012 with that new quick release he always has had in his arsenal but has been reluctant to use.

He's had 3 different offensive coordinators in the NFL and two different head coaches, but has always played the same way. No one can force him to play a certain way. THey can tell him, they can show him on film, they can practice it until the cows come home. But, until he gets it through his head it's not going to happen. He's a 30 year old man making 100 million dollars. Part of his job is watching film for hours every day. Unless he's a complete freaking dumbass there's no possible way he doesn't see the difference between what he does and what Brady, Rogers, and Brees do.

and it must suck watching Brady, Rogers, and Brees offensive lines block for them.

I've never said our line isn't part of the problem. But, one thing that's pointed out clearly in both the Smizek article and the Bouchette article is that those guys get rid of the ball quickly and Ben doesn't at least not consistently. Look at how many Steelers fans were screaming about how we needed to blitz Brady to win or he would pick us apart. Now look at what we actually did? Do you know why our blitz frequently doesn't work and "we aren't getting any pressure"? Because those guys get rid of the ball faster than the blitz can get there.

Quote :

chicago_steeler_fan: was injuries/inexperience a reason for what seemed to be a dramatic decline in blitzing this year?

Ed Bouchette: A number of them told me they cut back on the blitzes because many of the QBs were taking shorter drops and quicker releases, so it was futile. I think a big part of it was the injuries to LaMarr Woodley and James Harrison, who missed a combined 11 games. Woodley led the AFC with 9 sacks after 8 games, then had no more the rest of the way, when he played little.

supytalpeht wrote:

effyou515 wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

La Flama Blanca wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

Quote :

Roethlisberger won't like this, but he also needs to change his approach. He has been the best quarterback at extending plays and making plays when he does. However, wouldn't it be nice if he could just complete the pass without all the drama? You know, with a quick release to one of those quick and speedy young receivers who can then do their thing after the catch?

Ed Bullchitte needs to learn that just isn't Ben's style. He's a sandlot Quarterback.

Wouldn't that be coaching?

Quote :

to showcase his receiving ability for when Roethlisberger alters his style in 2012 with that new quick release he always has had in his arsenal but has been reluctant to use.

He's had 3 different offensive coordinators in the NFL and two different head coaches, but has always played the same way. No one can force him to play a certain way. THey can tell him, they can show him on film, they can practice it until the cows come home. But, until he gets it through his head it's not going to happen. He's a 30 year old man making 100 million dollars. Part of his job is watching film for hours every day. Unless he's a complete freaking dumbass there's no possible way he doesn't see the difference between what he does and what Brady, Rogers, and Brees do.

and it must suck watching Brady, Rogers, and Brees offensive lines block for them.

I've never said our line isn't part of the problem. But, one thing that's pointed out clearly in both the Smizek article and the Bouchette article is that those guys get rid of the ball quickly and Ben doesn't at least not consistently. Look at how many Steelers fans were screaming about how we needed to blitz Brady to win or he would pick us apart. Now look at what we actually did? Do you know why our blitz frequently doesn't work and "we aren't getting any pressure"? Because those guys get rid of the ball faster than the blitz can get there.

I know look how many times Brady ate up a Cowher/Lebeau defense. But Ben likes the long ball so the Steelers better fix o-line with a fixed o-line the offense can get back to what they like the run game setting up the longer pass plays with the longer pass plays setting up the run.

Plus when the defense knows that they are getting to Ben fast and know Ben won't have time to throw deep they will be sitting on the short passes. And I'm talking about defenses that have been getting to Ben with just 4 rushers and 7 back in coverage that is the biggest reason I but in the o-line reference in my post.

Quote :

chicago_steeler_fan: was injuries/inexperience a reason for what seemed to be a dramatic decline in blitzing this year?

Ed Bouchette: A number of them told me they cut back on the blitzes because many of the QBs were taking shorter drops and quicker releases, so it was futile. I think a big part of it was the injuries to LaMarr Woodley and James Harrison, who missed a combined 11 games. Woodley led the AFC with 9 sacks after 8 games, then had no more the rest of the way, when he played little.

Against passing offenses I like a 4-3 defense better then a 3-4 defense. remember how the Giants destoryed the Patriots in Superbowl 42 with just a 4 man rush and 7 in coverage. thats what I'm talkin about. the 3-4 is a better run defense.

effyou515 wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

effyou515 wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

La Flama Blanca wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

Quote :

Roethlisberger won't like this, but he also needs to change his approach. He has been the best quarterback at extending plays and making plays when he does. However, wouldn't it be nice if he could just complete the pass without all the drama? You know, with a quick release to one of those quick and speedy young receivers who can then do their thing after the catch?

Ed Bullchitte needs to learn that just isn't Ben's style. He's a sandlot Quarterback.

Wouldn't that be coaching?

Quote :

to showcase his receiving ability for when Roethlisberger alters his style in 2012 with that new quick release he always has had in his arsenal but has been reluctant to use.

He's had 3 different offensive coordinators in the NFL and two different head coaches, but has always played the same way. No one can force him to play a certain way. THey can tell him, they can show him on film, they can practice it until the cows come home. But, until he gets it through his head it's not going to happen. He's a 30 year old man making 100 million dollars. Part of his job is watching film for hours every day. Unless he's a complete freaking dumbass there's no possible way he doesn't see the difference between what he does and what Brady, Rogers, and Brees do.

and it must suck watching Brady, Rogers, and Brees offensive lines block for them.

I've never said our line isn't part of the problem. But, one thing that's pointed out clearly in both the Smizek article and the Bouchette article is that those guys get rid of the ball quickly and Ben doesn't at least not consistently. Look at how many Steelers fans were screaming about how we needed to blitz Brady to win or he would pick us apart. Now look at what we actually did? Do you know why our blitz frequently doesn't work and "we aren't getting any pressure"? Because those guys get rid of the ball faster than the blitz can get there.

I know look how many times Brady ate up a Cowher/Lebeau defense. But Ben likes the long ball so the Steelers better fix o-line with a fixed o-line the offense can get back to what they like the run game setting up the longer pass plays with the longer pass plays setting up the run.

Plus when the defense knows that they are getting to Ben fast and know Ben won't have time to throw deep they will be sitting on the short passes. And I'm talking about defenses that have been getting to Ben with just 4 rushers and 7 back in coverage that is the biggest reason I but in the o-line reference in my post.

Quote :

chicago_steeler_fan: was injuries/inexperience a reason for what seemed to be a dramatic decline in blitzing this year?

Ed Bouchette: A number of them told me they cut back on the blitzes because many of the QBs were taking shorter drops and quicker releases, so it was futile. I think a big part of it was the injuries to LaMarr Woodley and James Harrison, who missed a combined 11 games. Woodley led the AFC with 9 sacks after 8 games, then had no more the rest of the way, when he played little.

Against passing offenses I like a 4-3 defense better then a 3-4 defense. remember how the Giants destoryed the Patriots in Superbowl 42 with just a 4 man rush and 7 in coverage. thats what I'm talkin about. the 3-4 is a better run defense.

What you're proposing will cause Steeler nation to implode as our defense would be average at best for a few years. We aren't built to run the 4-3. We're lacking the DL and CB's. It would be tantamount to asking Ben, the Oline, and our WR's to switch to running an option style offense.

supytalpeht wrote:

effyou515 wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

effyou515 wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

La Flama Blanca wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

Quote :

Roethlisberger won't like this, but he also needs to change his approach. He has been the best quarterback at extending plays and making plays when he does. However, wouldn't it be nice if he could just complete the pass without all the drama? You know, with a quick release to one of those quick and speedy young receivers who can then do their thing after the catch?

Ed Bullchitte needs to learn that just isn't Ben's style. He's a sandlot Quarterback.

Wouldn't that be coaching?

Quote :

to showcase his receiving ability for when Roethlisberger alters his style in 2012 with that new quick release he always has had in his arsenal but has been reluctant to use.

He's had 3 different offensive coordinators in the NFL and two different head coaches, but has always played the same way. No one can force him to play a certain way. THey can tell him, they can show him on film, they can practice it until the cows come home. But, until he gets it through his head it's not going to happen. He's a 30 year old man making 100 million dollars. Part of his job is watching film for hours every day. Unless he's a complete freaking dumbass there's no possible way he doesn't see the difference between what he does and what Brady, Rogers, and Brees do.

and it must suck watching Brady, Rogers, and Brees offensive lines block for them.

I've never said our line isn't part of the problem. But, one thing that's pointed out clearly in both the Smizek article and the Bouchette article is that those guys get rid of the ball quickly and Ben doesn't at least not consistently. Look at how many Steelers fans were screaming about how we needed to blitz Brady to win or he would pick us apart. Now look at what we actually did? Do you know why our blitz frequently doesn't work and "we aren't getting any pressure"? Because those guys get rid of the ball faster than the blitz can get there.

I know look how many times Brady ate up a Cowher/Lebeau defense. But Ben likes the long ball so the Steelers better fix o-line with a fixed o-line the offense can get back to what they like the run game setting up the longer pass plays with the longer pass plays setting up the run.

Plus when the defense knows that they are getting to Ben fast and know Ben won't have time to throw deep they will be sitting on the short passes. And I'm talking about defenses that have been getting to Ben with just 4 rushers and 7 back in coverage that is the biggest reason I but in the o-line reference in my post.

Quote :

chicago_steeler_fan: was injuries/inexperience a reason for what seemed to be a dramatic decline in blitzing this year?

Ed Bouchette: A number of them told me they cut back on the blitzes because many of the QBs were taking shorter drops and quicker releases, so it was futile. I think a big part of it was the injuries to LaMarr Woodley and James Harrison, who missed a combined 11 games. Woodley led the AFC with 9 sacks after 8 games, then had no more the rest of the way, when he played little.

Against passing offenses I like a 4-3 defense better then a 3-4 defense. remember how the Giants destoryed the Patriots in Superbowl 42 with just a 4 man rush and 7 in coverage. thats what I'm talkin about. the 3-4 is a better run defense.

What you're proposing will cause Steeler nation to implode as our defense would be average at best for a few years. We aren't built to run the 4-3. We're lacking the DL and CB's. It would be tantamount to asking Ben, the Oline, and our WR's to switch to running an option style offense.

guess we'll see? if the Steelers draft a NT in this draft or not.

Was it me or did we just look more effective and a hell of a lot less predictable with Wisenhunt? The New England game was so balanced on offense and I don't understand why the get away from it. There is a lot of game to go around, but the offense has been consistently average with above average players.

La Flama Blanca wrote:

Was it me or did we just look more effective and a hell of a lot less predictable with Wisenhunt? The New England game was so balanced on offense and I don't understand why the get away from it. There is a lot of game to go around, but the offense has been consistently average with above average players.

We ran a fair number of gadget plays under Whisenhunt. The NE game? We passed 50+ times in that game.
Contrary to popular belief we weren't exactly a power running team with Whiz a the helm. In 2005 we managed to accumulate something like all of 300 more yards on the season than we did this year. The rushing totals are roughly 1900 to 2200. We actually average almost a a half yard more per carry this year vs Whiz(4.0vs 4.4). Really the biggest difference is forced fumbles (29vs10).

I still believe defense will always have a place in the NFL. It may appear that the "new" NFL is trending toward video type numbers but even these last place defenses of these high powered offenses did one thing that does not show up without digging. New England and Green Bay all had opportunistic defenses in that they caused turnovers, which sadly, while our defense was statistically superior in nearly all other categories we had to be near the bottom in turnovers and I would risk saying that our defense ranked near the bottom in actual points scored by a defense. We beat a Tom Brady team this year by doing what any team needs to do to beat the best QBs like him, Rogers, and Brees, we did this by controlling the clock on offense and playing tight coverage to take away the quick slants, and finally put some pressure on him. I still believe a balanced team is much more dangerous than one that has all its eggs in one basket.

riccosuavez wrote:

I still believe defense will always have a place in the NFL. It may appear that the "new" NFL is trending toward video type numbers but even these last place defenses of these high powered offenses did one thing that does not show up without digging. New England and Green Bay all had opportunistic defenses in that they caused turnovers, which sadly, while our defense was statistically superior in nearly all other categories we had to be near the bottom in turnovers and I would risk saying that our defense ranked near the bottom in actual points scored by a defense. We beat a Tom Brady team this year by doing what any team needs to do to beat the best QBs like him, Rogers, and Brees, we did this by controlling the clock on offense and playing tight coverage to take away the quick slants, and finally put some pressure on him. I still believe a balanced team is much more dangerous than one that has all its eggs in one basket.

Too busy to read and comment, just wanted to say welcome to SX, ricco.

riccosuavez wrote:

I still believe defense will always have a place in the NFL. It may appear that the "new" NFL is trending toward video type numbers but even these last place defenses of these high powered offenses did one thing that does not show up without digging. New England and Green Bay all had opportunistic defenses in that they caused turnovers, which sadly, while our defense was statistically superior in nearly all other categories we had to be near the bottom in turnovers and I would risk saying that our defense ranked near the bottom in actual points scored by a defense. We beat a Tom Brady team this year by doing what any team needs to do to beat the best QBs like him, Rogers, and Brees, we did this by controlling the clock on offense and playing tight coverage to take away the quick slants, and finally put some pressure on him. I still believe a balanced team is much more dangerous than one that has all its eggs in one basket.

Green bay ranked 2nd in takeaways while New England ranked 4th, SF was #1 in the league this year. The Steelers were dead last, very unusual for a team ranked first or near first in most categories. New Orleans ranked only one spot better than us, and while they made a game of last nights contest, they lost the turnover battle again and ultimately lost the game.

supytalpeht wrote:

We ran a fair number of gadget plays under Whisenhunt. The NE game? We passed 50+ times in that game.
Contrary to popular belief we weren't exactly a power running team with Whiz a the helm. In 2005 we managed to accumulate something like all of 300 more yards on the season than we did this year. The rushing totals are roughly 1900 to 2200. We actually average almost a a half yard more per carry this year vs Whiz(4.0vs 4.4). Really the biggest difference is forced fumbles (29vs10).

I guess seeing shit like Mendehall rushing four straight times in the failed end zone attempt clouds my judgement. I guess the difference between Arians and Wiz is that one will never be a head coach. Maybe your right and we are better then I think. Maybe this bubble screen will grow on me?

La Flama Blanca wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

We ran a fair number of gadget plays under Whisenhunt. The NE game? We passed 50+ times in that game.
Contrary to popular belief we weren't exactly a power running team with Whiz a the helm. In 2005 we managed to accumulate something like all of 300 more yards on the season than we did this year. The rushing totals are roughly 1900 to 2200. We actually average almost a a half yard more per carry this year vs Whiz(4.0vs 4.4). Really the biggest difference is forced fumbles (29vs10).

I guess seeing shit like Mendehall rushing four straight times in the failed end zone attempt clouds my judgement. I guess the difference between Arians and Wiz is that one will never be a head coach. Maybe your right and we are better then I think. Maybe this bubble screen will grow on me?

I wouldn't say we're better than you think because we certainly have our issues. It's just that the issues aren;t so simple as Arians sucks. During the Mularkey/Whiz years we weren't exactly offensive juggernauts. We averaged something like 3 points a game more than we did in 2011. I've tried to point out how turnovers killed us this year and a lot of people seem to want to ignore it and say we're 21st in the league in ppg. Look at our 5 worst offensive games and we killed something like 35% of our possessions via turnover. Basically out of 60 offensive possessions we said to our opponents here we only need 40 opportunities. We were tied for last in the league in field goal percentage.

supytalpeht wrote:

I wouldn't say we're better than you think because we certainly have our issues. It's just that the issues aren;t so simple as Arians sucks. During the Mularkey/Whiz years we weren't exactly offensive juggernauts. We averaged something like 3 points a game more than we did in 2011. I've tried to point out how turnovers killed us this year and a lot of people seem to want to ignore it and say we're 21st in the league in ppg. Look at our 5 worst offensive games and we killed something like 35% of our possessions via turnover. Basically out of 60 offensive possessions we said to our opponents here we only need 40 opportunities. We were tied for last in the league in field goal percentage.

Who was the QB under Mularkey? I agree with the point of turnovers and fg%, but what is it you see that shines light on what Arians has created? What are we giving him credit for exactly? I understand it's not just him. Bailey, Tomlin and others should shoulder the blame. I'm not a football coach, but I understand the ramifications of not having a fullback in the AFC North.

So are you saying it comes down to just turnovers? What do you like about the way this offense performs?

I'm not ignoring the fact about turnovers, but the play calling this year was less then should be desired.

La Flama Blanca wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

I wouldn't say we're better than you think because we certainly have our issues. It's just that the issues aren;t so simple as Arians sucks. During the Mularkey/Whiz years we weren't exactly offensive juggernauts. We averaged something like 3 points a game more than we did in 2011. I've tried to point out how turnovers killed us this year and a lot of people seem to want to ignore it and say we're 21st in the league in ppg. Look at our 5 worst offensive games and we killed something like 35% of our possessions via turnover. Basically out of 60 offensive possessions we said to our opponents here we only need 40 opportunities. We were tied for last in the league in field goal percentage.

Who was the QB under Mularkey? I agree with the point of turnovers and fg%, but what is it you see that shines light on what Arians has created? What are we giving him credit for exactly? I understand it's not just him. Bailey, Tomlin and others should shoulder the blame. I'm not a football coach, but I understand the ramifications of not having a fullback in the AFC North.

So are you saying it comes down to just turnovers? What do you like about the way this offense performs?

I'm not ignoring the fact about turnovers, but the play calling this year was less then should be desired.

Maddox and Ben or was it Tomczak and Ben? Absolutely not and the offense has more often then not under performed. But I have too say overall I think play calling is probably the least of our concerns. And Ben plays a significant part in the play calling dept.

This offense is essentially the same schematically as that of the Packers, Saints etc. THere are minor differences, but overall they are the same. The major difference is consistent execution and the play of their QB's. We make too many stupid mistakes on offense as a whole. WHether it's holding,false starts, missed blocks and then every now and then Ben just plays stupid football. He starts forcing the ball into coverage,holding onto the ball/ taking sacks, ignoring check down receivers...

Look at the play where Ben sprained his ankle. Mendy was all alone as the check down, but Ben ran around looking for something down field. Take a look at the first two ints against SF. We had open receivers underneath on both of them, but Ben got greedy(for lack of a better term). There were two men draped over Wallace with an open Brown underneath. Take 5 yards and live to play another down or go for 7 and risk it all?

Similar situation on the int to Heath. Heath was basically open and if the ball is on target it more than likely wouldn't have been a problem. However, Mendy was the checkdown and there was no one within 10 yards. Ben knows he's throwing the ball high due to his ankle take the easy freaking pass and live to fight another day. He's been in the league for 8 years with 2 HC, 3 OC, X qb coaches and he's still doing the same things.

I didn't read all the replies...but I think this trend is telling of the fact that the NFL doesn't want dominant defenses anymore. The rules are geared against them.

SteelCityMom wrote:

I didn't read all the replies...but I think this trend is telling of the fact that the NFL doesn't want dominant defenses anymore. The rules are geared against them.

Absolutely. It's a business and they're paying QB's $100,000,000 you know damn well they're going to protect that investment.