TPOP: Steelers big board

Hi all.

I was a long-time contributor over at Steelers Fever. Then, kaploowey!!! I used to write articles for Steelers Fever (in the pre-kaploowey days), and I currently write for a website called The Point of Pittsburgh. Here is my most recent article about the Steelers.

The Big Board
by Tiger Rowan

In any given draft, I take the spot at which the Steelers are drafting, and make a list of that same number of “possible” players that could be drafted, up to and including when the Steelers pick. This year, the Steelers draft 22nd, so I have created a list of twenty-two prospects. Furthermore, for those twenty-two candidates, I have divided them out into different categories...

Read more here:
http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/the-big-board/

I hope that you enjoy the article.

very nice read T

fer69 wrote:

very nice read T

Thank you, Fer.

good job as always teeg

vasteeler wrote:

good job as always teeg

Thanks, brother. Much appreciated.

Nice work , T.

steelstoned1972 wrote:

Nice work , T.

Thanks, steelstoned.

Of those players listed: who would you take?

teegre wrote:

steelstoned1972 wrote:

Nice work , T.

Thanks, steelstoned.  

Of those players listed: who would you take?  

I'm not sure. I don't have a draft crush this year.

I just know I'd like to see a combo of edge rushers and Dbs early (in the first 4 rounds) , perhaps 2 apiece.

I'm not crazy about corner in the first unless Trai Waynes falls like Dennard did last year. I like Peters but his off field issues scare me.

I'm guessing best edge rusher available will be the pick in the first followed by a corner in the second.

I'd Be ok with something like Dupree , Ray, Harold , Orchard or Gregory . Then follow it up with Carter , the corner from Miami of Ohio , or the u conn kid in the second.

Nice article. I like the view on the players and the needs.

stlrtruck wrote:

Nice article.  I like the view on the players and the needs.

Thanks, man.

Yep: the needs & players listed lean heavily towards CB & OLB... with the "possibility" of some other position (under the right circumstances: Scherff drops to 22).

Q: Who's your preference?

steelstoned1972 wrote:

teegre wrote:

steelstoned1972 wrote:

Nice work , T.

Thanks, steelstoned.  

Of those players listed: who would you take?  

I'm not sure.  I don't have a draft crush this year.

I just know I'd like to see a combo of edge rushers and Dbs early (in the first 4 rounds) , perhaps 2 apiece.

I'm not crazy about corner in the first unless Trai Waynes falls like Dennard did last year. I like Peters but his off field issues scare me.

I'm guessing best edge rusher available will be the pick in the first followed by a corner in the second.

I'd Be ok with something like Dupree , Ray,  Harold , Orchard or Gregory . Then follow it up with Carter , the corner from Miami of Ohio , or the u conn kid in the second.

Yep.  CB then OLB... or, OLB then CB.  

Waynes will be gone; Peters scares me; which leaves Johnson, Collins, & my dark horse: Carter.  None of those three is really "worthy" of the 22nd pick; so, a trade down with Dallas (who might trade in front of Arizona, in order to get a RB) makes a ton of sense.  

I'd double-dips at both positions, as well... but, not until R5 & R6.  
R1:  CB/OLB  
R2:  OLB/CB  
...
R5:  Lynden Trail, OLB, Norfolk  
Kyle Emmanual, OLB, North Dakota

R6:  Ladarius Gunter, CB, Miami  
Quandre Diggs, CB, Texas  
Wayne Lyons, CB, Stanford  
Steve Nelson, CB, Oregon St.  
Lorenzo Doss, CB, Tulane  
Bobby McCain, CB, Memphis

I still would not care if they drafted Shelton if he somehow fell or Malcolm Brown you need a steady diet of Big Uglies upfront and both those guys are athletic enough to play at their size to rush the passer and stuff the run. I like McClendon's game but he does have an injury history. I'm not exactly crazy having cam Thomas Or  Big Dan be the first subs in the game on the front line.

steelstoned1972 wrote:

I still would not care if they drafted Shelton if he somehow fell or Malcolm Brown you need a steady diet of Big Uglies upfront and both those guys are athletic enough to play at their size to rush the passer and stuff the run. I like McClendon's game but he does have an injury history. I'm not exactly crazy having cam Thomas Or  Big Dan be the first subs in the game on the front line.

I've been an advocate for a NT for three years. But, I think that they'll go with McCx2 (McClendon & McCullers). And, I like McCullers. He needs time, but if he can put it all together, he might be the future.

That said, if Shelton is there, he's a no-brainer (IMO). He's the only three-down NT in this draft.

There's an outside shot that they take Malcolm Brown. He's high character, and a team leader. You wNt guys like Brown on your team. With McClendon being injured so often, plus being 30, and in his contract year... I could see Brown possibly being the pick*.

*That is, assuming there's not an OLB or CB rated the same (or higher).

teegre wrote:

steelstoned1972 wrote:

I still would not care if they drafted Shelton if he somehow fell or Malcolm Brown you need a steady diet of Big Uglies upfront and both those guys are athletic enough to play at their size to rush the passer and stuff the run. I like McClendon's game but he does have an injury history. I'm not exactly crazy having cam Thomas Or  Big Dan be the first subs in the game on the front line.

I've been an advocate for a NT for three years.  But, I think that they'll go with McCx2 (McClendon & McCullers).  And, I like McCullers.  He needs time, but if he can put it all together, he might be the future.  

That said, if Shelton is there, he's a no-brainer (IMO).  He's the only three-down NT in this draft.  

There's an outside shot that they take Malcolm Brown.  He's high character, and a team leader.  You wNt guys like Brown on your team.  With McClendon being injured so often, plus being 30, and in his contract year... I could see Brown possibly being the pick*.    

*That is, assuming there's not an OLB or CB rated the same (or higher).  

Yep.  that is the bottom line they may have an offensive tackle thats higher rated on their board for all we know and they could justify the pic with Beacham and Adams being in the final year of their contract. I wouldn't be crazy about an o line pick in the first but I could see how they could justify it if it's their highest rated player.

teegre wrote:

stlrtruck wrote:

Nice article.  I like the view on the players and the needs.

Thanks, man.  

Yep: the needs & players listed lean heavily towards CB & OLB... with the "possibility" of some other position (under the right circumstances: Scherff drops to 22).  

Q: Who's your preference?  

Since I don't follow college football too closely, I can only state my preference on position not player. With that, I honestly believe the Steelers need to draft secondary with their first round pick.

stlrtruck wrote:

teegre wrote:

stlrtruck wrote:

Nice article.  I like the view on the players and the needs.

Thanks, man.  

Yep: the needs & players listed lean heavily towards CB & OLB... with the "possibility" of some other position (under the right circumstances: Scherff drops to 22).  

Q: Who's your preference?  

Since I don't follow college football too closely, I can only state my preference on position not player.  With that, I honestly believe the Steelers need to draft secondary with their first round pick.

I'm in the same camp. With the strongest strength of schedule in '15 I would draft for need over best athlete available with the early picks because a steelers team with a weak secondary (and pass rush) going into that schedule is going to have it tested and exploited very well. Even addressing with premium picks at CB and OLB, the hole (so to speak) isnt completely patched up. But saturate our biggest issues on defensive with as many good bodies as possible and those rookies that we draft are going to see more (recent) Superbowl winners and playoff contenders than any others drafted in '15 , especially at CB where you can expect to see at least one rookie becoming a starter by playoff time. I see it as a pressure makes diamonds frame of mind. Making picks where we pick up someone because they are the best at their position in college (ignoring OLB, CB) isnt always the undisputed best choice. Every Draft theres someone best at their position, they don't always do great things at the next level. Instead of college certainties translating to an NFL uncertainty, look at what you're certain of, the team needs CBs, needs OLBs, needs maybe another Safety. They may be uncertainties too, but you at least you addressed a negative with a positive. Going up against the best in the league next season, someone new to the team is gonna step up big and learn fast because they want it, I'm willing to bet at least that. I wanna see our positions of need thouroughly saturated, immediately tested, and whoever isnt chewed up and spit out by Gronks and Grahams, be battlehardened by the end of '15.

Of course we're all pretty sure what to expect anyway. Its not like we expect the FO to take a Punter and a QB in the first and second. But for me, if a CB isnt taken by the start of the third, I will be awfully nervous.

And you know I hope we grab at least one decent pass rusher but to be honest I actually have some kind of weird faith in who we already have in place. Not because I think Harrison is immortal or anything. I like Moats, I think Jarvis has at least the potential to step up. I like what Heyward brings to the rushing the passer at DE. Obviously it (OLB) has to be addressed because of depth. But I have some confidence that the pass rush from our front 7 will be leagues better than last year. Though I base it all on nothing but a hunch. Like some kind of dumb foresight.

steelstoned1972 wrote:

Yep.  that is the bottom line they may have an offensive tackle thats higher rated on their board for all we know and they could justify the pic with Beacham and Adams being in the final year of their contract. I wouldn't be crazy about an o line pick in the first but I could see how they could justify it if it's their highest rated player.

Honestly, I think that they'll get a deal done with Beachum.

But, Foster is in a contract year... and, an upgrade is needed regardless. I'd still prefer an OLB or CB, but if the BPA is an O-lineman, I'm fine with that; Scherff or Erving would make this O-line amazing.

stlrtruck wrote:

teegre wrote:

stlrtruck wrote:

Nice article.  I like the view on the players and the needs.

Thanks, man.  

Yep: the needs & players listed lean heavily towards CB & OLB... with the "possibility" of some other position (under the right circumstances: Scherff drops to 22).  

Q: Who's your preference?  

Since I don't follow college football too closely, I can only state my preference on position not player.  With that, I honestly believe the Steelers need to draft secondary with their first round pick.

Q: What if the best player available (BPA) isn't a DB. Do you draft for need (DB) or do you take the "better" player at a position of less dire need?

Excellent read teegre.

Like Truck, I don't watch a lot of college football, so it's pointless for me to try to engage in any meaningful draft talk. I like to kick back and read the opinions of those of you who know a heck of a lot more than I do.

With that said, there's a few things we know about how the Steelers draft (in general) ... they don't overreach for players, and they don't lock in to one position. As an example, if the corner they want is available and the linebacker they want is available, they're going to take the player they have rated higher. I think that frustrates some fans who can't figure out why they're ignoring a certain need, like last year when they didn't draft a corner early.

teegre wrote:

stlrtruck wrote:

teegre wrote:

stlrtruck wrote:

Nice article.  I like the view on the players and the needs.

Thanks, man.  

Yep: the needs & players listed lean heavily towards CB & OLB... with the "possibility" of some other position (under the right circumstances: Scherff drops to 22).  

Q: Who's your preference?  

Since I don't follow college football too closely, I can only state my preference on position not player.  With that, I honestly believe the Steelers need to draft secondary with their first round pick.

Q:  What if the best player available (BPA) isn't a DB.  Do you draft for need (DB) or do you take the "better" player at a position of less dire need?  

Only if BPA is Linebacker

stlrtruck wrote:

Only if BPA is Linebacker

I agree with that, to a degree.  

CB & OLB are the top two needs.  Period.  And, the third biggest need is like three notches down.  

That said, if there we're a player there that is unquestionably better than any available CB or OLB, I would go for the BPA.  But, that BPA would have to be "obviously" better.  

Such as, if the players were graded as such:  
CB: 8.0
OLB:  7.9
LG: 9.5
I would go with the LG.  

But, the players were gradedcas such:  
CB: 8.0
OLB:  7.9
LG: 8.1
I would go with either the CB or OLB.

Wallace108 wrote:

Excellent read teegre.

Like Truck, I don't watch a lot of college football, so it's pointless for me to try to engage in any meaningful draft talk. I like to kick back and read the opinions of those of you who know a heck of a lot more than I do.

With that said, there's a few things we know about how the Steelers draft (in general) ... they don't overreach for players, and they don't lock in to one position. As an example, if the corner they want is available and the linebacker they want is available, they're going to take the player they have rated higher. I think that frustrates some fans who can't figure out why they're ignoring a certain need, like last year when they didn't draft a corner early.

Bingo!!!

I always bring up Randy Moss. After the Vikings drafted him, a reporter pointed out to Denny Green that the Vikings already had Chris Carter & Jake Reed... and, spreading the ball out to three different receivers would be a problem. To which Denny replied: "That's a good problem to have."

More close to home:
The Steelers drafted Timmons, when they already had Farrior & Foote. Then, again, they drafted Shazier, when they already had Timmons, Williams, & Spence.

In R1, I feel that BPA is the best way to go. Then, for R2 on, you target certain positions.

@KeepHarrisonTilHes92

Interesting. And, I see your logic.

Let's use DeVante Parker as an example; he's the third-best WR in this draft. If he's there at 22, he would be the BPA... but, it's not a position of need. Whereas, Kevin Johnson would not be the "best" player, but drafting him fills a hole.

In other words, you are saying that adding depth at position isn't as important as filling a glaring hole at another.

I understand your logic; I get it... it's the most well-written way I've seen it described. Seriously. Good job.

That said, for R1, I still prefer to go BPA.

teegre wrote:

@KeepHarrisonTilHes92  

Interesting.  And, I see your logic.  

Let's use DeVante Parker as an example; he's the third-best WR in this draft.  If he's there at 22, he would be the BPA... but, it's not a position of need.  Whereas, Kevin Johnson would not be the "best" player, but drafting him fills a hole.  

In other words, you are saying that adding depth at position isn't as important as filling a glaring hole at another.  

I understand your logic; I get it... it's the most well-written way I've seen it described.  Seriously.  Good job.  

That said, for R1, I still prefer to go BPA.  

I would too but only following the "obvious" clause you mentioned earlier. Like if Kevin White or Leonard Williams were there, I'd be hard pressed to pass one of them up. I dont envy the FO, because, if I did make that choice in the 2015 draft I would have this nagging feeling about our secondary/OLB and theyre paper-thinness. But it is only one pick, and I agree you should come out of round 1 with a first round talent and Kevin Johnson is not that. (Debatable if any of the CBs are). But there are for sure first round talents at OLB. BPA should still apply but maybe not to the point where Steelers pick up a tackle or center because this year, I think the fans will be more frustrated than most. This isnt the only draft where we've been yelling out about drafting a CB early. And every year, we yell it a little louder because the later round picks, or "Shazier can drop in coverage and patch the issue." Isnt working as well as just drafting a solid guy would.

Not that I don't like what Shazier could bring to the table healthy. I may becoming off as pessimistic a bit, but if there were an early CB pick last year, he would be coming into his sophmore year, into the 2015 schedule with NFL experience. Now we have to get a rookie to answer the call of duty of a difficult year at CB, so its now on the FO to decide which rookie its going to be. Unless they think Blake or Allen is the de-facto number two, Willie Gay stands alone in mind as someone I have confidence in week 1.

@KeepHarrisonTilHes92

Indeed.  As far as CB goes, I don't think that the value is there at 22.  The problem is: all of the elite pass-rushers may be gone by then.  

So, the top tier OLBs are gone, do they "reach" for a CB?... or, get the second best NT (or OG) in the draft?  

It's a tough decision.  

Here's my solution:  
1.  Trade back from 22.  
2.  Draft a second-tier CB at a better "value" spot.  
3.  Use the new pick, to trade up in R2.  
4.  Draft a third-tier OLB at a better "value" spot.