Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?

Getting this out a bit late as I was sick for the last 2 days, but surprised there was no thread on this.

Jamison Hensley of ESPN.com recently posted an interesting interview with current Baltimore Ravens wide receiver Mike Wallace, formerly of the Pittsburgh Steelers (and Miami Dolphins... and Minnesota Vikings.)

Wallace was quoted:

"I think I’ve gotten better, even though [the] numbers don’t say so... I think I’ll get better this year, and I’ll show some people I have a lot up my sleeve."

I actually didn't tear this apart as bad as I could've, but anyone with a brain can see why this is a pompous statement from Wallace!

Article: http://www.steelcityunderground.com/2016/06/28/whos-better-since-parting-ways-mike-wallace-steelers/

Podcast: http://www.steelcityunderground.com/podcast/2016/06/mike-wallace-says-hes-better-left-steelers/

Mike Wallace was a star with Bruce Arians and they helped win the Steelers a Conference Title.  

Then he was wasted by Todd Haley for one season and left.  

I'll take 2009-2011 Wallace/Arians over anything that transpired since both were shown the door by the Steelers.

Crash wrote:

Mike Wallace was a star with Bruce Arians and they helped win the Steelers a Conference Title.  

Then he was wasted by Todd Haley for one season and left.  

I'll take 2009-2011 Wallace/Arians over anything that transpired since both were shown the door by the Steelers.

So you're saying you'd take Ben/Wallace/Arians over Ben/AB/Haley? Maybe I'm reading it wrong but that's what it sounds like lol

Wallace was literally only good/great because of the guy throwing him the ball.
Miami thought he would do the same with Tannehill and Wallace became a 5th string receiver (not really but figuratively)

And people can rip me all they want but the same can be said about AB too.
The 4 games Ben missed last year he was non-existant, with Ben on the field AB is literally uncoverable.

Quote :

So you're saying you'd take Ben/Wallace/Arians over Ben/AB/Haley? Maybe I'm reading it wrong but that's what it sounds like lol

AB was still playing on his original rookie contract in 2011 when Arians was fired.  Wallace may left anyway after 2012 for big bucks even if Arians were retained ESPECIALLY if they would win the AFC.  

But it sure would have been nice to see what would have happened in 2012 with Ben/Arians/AB/Wallace/Sanders/Cotchery, without the looming shadow of Hines Ward as a starter for most of the year AND the need/quest by the organization to get him his 1000th catch.

SteelersNorth wrote:

Crash wrote:

Mike Wallace was a star with Bruce Arians and they helped win the Steelers a Conference Title.  

Then he was wasted by Todd Haley for one season and left.  

I'll take 2009-2011 Wallace/Arians over anything that transpired since both were shown the door by the Steelers.

So you're saying you'd take Ben/Wallace/Arians over Ben/AB/Haley? Maybe I'm reading it wrong but that's what it sounds like lol

Wallace was literally only good/great because of the guy throwing him the ball.
Miami thought he would do the same with Tannehill and Wallace became a 5th string receiver (not really but figuratively)

And people can rip me all they want but the same can be said about AB too.
The 4 games Ben missed last year he was non-existant, with Ben on the field AB is literally uncoverable.

I'll get flamed for saying this, but look up AB's stats with Landry Jones playing versus Michael Vick:

Rams/Vick: 0 catches
Ravens/Vick: 5/42/0
Chargers/Vick: 3/45/0
Cards/Vick: 1/-2/0

Cards/Jones: 2/26/0
Chiefs/Jones: 6/124/0

Vick totals to AB: 19 targets, 9 catches, 85 yards, 0 TDs
Jones total to AB: 17 targets, 12 catches, 232 yards, 0 TDs

Crash wrote:

Mike Wallace was a star with Bruce Arians and they helped win the Steelers a Conference Title.  

Then he was wasted by Todd Haley for one season and left.  

I'll take 2009-2011 Wallace/Arians over anything that transpired since both were shown the door by the Steelers.

You have an unhealthy obsession with Todd Haley. I think your basement dwelling is adorned with pictures of Todd Haley with knives, darts, and other sharp objects sticking out of them. Probably have a Todd Haley voodoo doll as well, and a Bruce Arians shrine where you burn incense and pray to your Arians God.

Actually I have an obsession with winning.

In four years since Ben was made an example of by his owner, we no longer win, and he no longer stays on the field like he did from 2007-2011.

SteelCityUnderground wrote:

SteelersNorth wrote:

Crash wrote:

Mike Wallace was a star with Bruce Arians and they helped win the Steelers a Conference Title.  

Then he was wasted by Todd Haley for one season and left.  

I'll take 2009-2011 Wallace/Arians over anything that transpired since both were shown the door by the Steelers.

So you're saying you'd take Ben/Wallace/Arians over Ben/AB/Haley? Maybe I'm reading it wrong but that's what it sounds like lol

Wallace was literally only good/great because of the guy throwing him the ball.
Miami thought he would do the same with Tannehill and Wallace became a 5th string receiver (not really but figuratively)

And people can rip me all they want but the same can be said about AB too.
The 4 games Ben missed last year he was non-existant, with Ben on the field AB is literally uncoverable.

I'll get flamed for saying this, but look up AB's stats with Landry Jones playing versus Michael Vick:

Rams/Vick: 0 catches
Ravens/Vick: 5/42/0
Chargers/Vick: 3/45/0
Cards/Vick: 1/-2/0

Cards/Jones: 2/26/0
Chiefs/Jones: 6/124/0

Vick totals to AB: 19 targets, 9 catches, 85 yards, 0 TDs
Jones total to AB: 17 targets, 12 catches, 232 yards, 0 TDs

I believe that Landry Jones being a pocket passer that can read some defenses better than Vick, who was a washed up running QB, completely contributes to those numbers. I think Mike Tomlin having a bit of a man crush on Vick is part of the reason that Vick was in games last season.

WR's are very dependant on their QB for success in getting them the football. If AB had to play with Ryan Tannehill, or Teddy Bridgewater, his numbers would be significantly impacted.

His numbers would also be impacted playing in a better system that attacks early, gets leads, and then runs the football. Less garbage time stats that way.

His numbers would also be impacted if the players around him didn't change so much. I think Ben relies on Brown TOO MUCH at times, because he's the only constant WR/TE on the field.

Crash wrote:

Actually I have an obsession with winning.  

In four years since Ben was made an example of by his owner, we no longer win, and he no longer stays on the field like he did from 2007-2011.  

Yeah, Ben really enjoyed the glory days of not getting hit nor feeling the effects of an inept offensive scheme.

Crash wrote:

Actually I have an obsession with winning.  

In four years since Ben was made an example of by his owner, we no longer win, and he no longer stays on the field like he did from 2007-2011.  

Crash, I can't believe I didn't notice this sooner ... you're the Donald Trump of Steeler Nation.

We need to rehire Arians to make the Steelers great again.

Wallace108 wrote:

Crash wrote:

Actually I have an obsession with winning.  

In four years since Ben was made an example of by his owner, we no longer win, and he no longer stays on the field like he did from 2007-2011.  

Crash, I can't believe I didn't notice this sooner ... you're the Donald Trump of Steeler Nation.

We need to rehire Arians to make the Steelers great again.    

kirklandrules wrote:

Crash wrote:

Actually I have an obsession with winning.  

In four years since Ben was made an example of by his owner, we no longer win, and he no longer stays on the field like he did from 2007-2011.  

Yeah, Ben really enjoyed the glory days of not getting hit nor feeling the effects of an inept offensive scheme.

That was a cheap shot. Nothing he could do.

But you know what? He didn't miss a snap did he?

He's missed 7 games in four seasons with Haley.

He missed TWO, in five seasons with Arians.

Facts can be a real bitch sometimes, but guess what? The're still facts.

Deal with it.

bayz101 wrote:

We need to rehire Arians to make the Steelers great again.

No, what they should do is hire ME!  

When Haley does it my way they dominate.  

But he doesn't do it nearly enough.  He's too busy trying to show how smart he is.

Crash wrote:

bayz101 wrote:

We need to rehire Arians to make the Steelers great again.

No, what they should do is hire ME!  

When Haley does it my way they dominate.  

But he doesn't do it nearly enough.  He's too busy trying to show how smart he is.

Were you part of the Steelers staff previously? Seems as though somebody said the Steelers are worse off when they don't promote from within. I think its an IRON CLAD FACT.

Yup.  Look it up.  Outsiders don't win.  In house people do.  

But the difference if they hired me would be I KNOW, that winning is all that matters.  I wouldn't have to show people how smart I am.  I would trust my talent, keep subbing to a bare minimum, and get the hell out of my HOF QB's way and turn him loose.  

You wouldn't see 330 pound tackles entering the game on 2nd and 10 from my own 20 and running a pass pattern like Todd Haley has done.  You wouldn't see me taking my best pass catcher off the field on the biggest 3rd down of the season to call a play for a un-drafted scrub who didn't play one snap in the second half to that point either.  You wouldn't see me, after my QB got the credit for his football intellect in running the no huddle, take away his play-calling duties in the no huddle the next season simply because I demand more credit like Todd Haley did to Ben in 2014.    

Unlike Haley, the offense wouldn't be about me.  It would be about putting my talent in the best possible situation to win football games and then just get out of their way and watch them do their job.

El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:

Crash wrote:

bayz101 wrote:

We need to rehire Arians to make the Steelers great again.

No, what they should do is hire ME!  

When Haley does it my way they dominate.  

But he doesn't do it nearly enough.  He's too busy trying to show how smart he is.

Were you part of the Steelers staff previously?  Seems as though somebody said the Steelers are worse off when they don't promote from within.  I think its an IRON CLAD FACT.  

That's a fact Jack!!!!

Crash wrote:

Yup.  Look it up.  Outsiders don't win.  In house people do.  

But the difference if they hired me would be I KNOW, that winning is all that matters.  I wouldn't have to show people how smart I am.  I would trust my talent, keep subbing to a bare minimum, and get the hell out of my HOF QB's way and turn him loose.  

You wouldn't see 330 pound tackles entering the game on 2nd and 10 from my own 20 and running a pass pattern like Todd Haley has done.  You wouldn't see me taking my best pass catcher off the field on the biggest 3rd down of the season to call a play for a un-drafted scrub who didn't play one snap in the second half to that point either.  You wouldn't see me, after my QB got the credit for his football intellect in running the no huddle, take away his play-calling duties in the no huddle the next season simply because I demand more credit like Todd Haley did to Ben in 2014.    

Unlike Haley, the offense wouldn't be about me.  It would be about putting my talent in the best possible situation to win football games and then just get out of their way and watch them do their job.

You crack me up!!! Must be some good shit you're smoking.

Tell me where I'm wrong though?  You can't.  Everything I listed above about Haley is fact.  His micro-managing kills his own offense.  He needs to take a back seat and just leave things be for 10 minutes, the rest takes care of itself.      

Case in point, the BEST GAME the offense had last season was week two against SF.  After putzing along the first drive with Nix and Spaeth on the field, the Steelers went on to score 29 straight points on the next four straight drives.  

And they didn't have two TE's on the field ONCE, during them.  

They had a TD drive later in the game and Matt Spaeth was on the field for it.

But Heath Miller wasn't.  So it remained three wides, a TE, and a RB.  

And here's the kicker below:

Le'Veon Bell? OUT.

Martavis Bryant?  OUT.  

Sammie Cotes? Inactive.

Jesse James? Inactive.  

When Haley had no choice, due to suspensions and inactive players, to basically stick with one formation, 11 personnel, and stop the constant subbing which disrupts his own offense?  They dominated.  

But like I said before, he doesn't do it nearly enough.  

He needs to get it through his head that fans don't spend their money to watch him.  They pay to watch this team win. And HE, and not apposing defenses, is the biggest reason why his offense lacks consistency.

Crash wrote:

Yup.  Look it up.  Outsiders don't win.  In house people do.  

But the difference if they hired me would be I KNOW, that winning is all that matters.  I wouldn't have to show people how smart I am.  I would trust my talent, keep subbing to a bare minimum, and get the hell out of my HOF QB's way and turn him loose.  

You wouldn't see 330 pound tackles entering the game on 2nd and 10 from my own 20 and running a pass pattern like Todd Haley has done.  You wouldn't see me taking my best pass catcher off the field on the biggest 3rd down of the season to call a play for a un-drafted scrub who didn't play one snap in the second half to that point either.  You wouldn't see me, after my QB got the credit for his football intellect in running the no huddle, take away his play-calling duties in the no huddle the next season simply because I demand more credit like Todd Haley did to Ben in 2014.    

Unlike Haley, the offense wouldn't be about me.  It would be about putting my talent in the best possible situation to win football games and then just get out of their way and watch them do their job.

You said it yourself, outsiders don't win. You would not make it based upon the pure factual history of the situation.

But, don't let that stop you. The ideas you expressed in this post are worthy of you finding an agent (try Rosenhaus, or ROC Nation, or Jerry Maguire) and getting a shot with the San Antonio Predators to start. You could be the next Mouse Davis with your innovative thinking.

El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:

Crash wrote:

Yup.  Look it up.  Outsiders don't win.  In house people do.  

But the difference if they hired me would be I KNOW, that winning is all that matters.  I wouldn't have to show people how smart I am.  I would trust my talent, keep subbing to a bare minimum, and get the hell out of my HOF QB's way and turn him loose.  

You wouldn't see 330 pound tackles entering the game on 2nd and 10 from my own 20 and running a pass pattern like Todd Haley has done.  You wouldn't see me taking my best pass catcher off the field on the biggest 3rd down of the season to call a play for a un-drafted scrub who didn't play one snap in the second half to that point either.  You wouldn't see me, after my QB got the credit for his football intellect in running the no huddle, take away his play-calling duties in the no huddle the next season simply because I demand more credit like Todd Haley did to Ben in 2014.    

Unlike Haley, the offense wouldn't be about me.  It would be about putting my talent in the best possible situation to win football games and then just get out of their way and watch them do their job.

You said it yourself, outsiders don't win.  You would not make it based upon the pure factual history of the situation.

But, don't let that stop you.  The ideas you expressed in this post are worthy of you finding an agent (try Rosenhaus, or ROC Nation, or Jerry Maguire) and getting a shot with the San Antonio Predators to start.  You could be the next Mouse Davis with your innovative thinking.

Nothing innovative about it. It keeps it simple.

Just like Haley was forced to in week two last season.

Just like Haley did the first 25 minutes of 2014.

Just like Haley did in the first half of the Lions game in 2013 (That was also when Randy Fichtner and Kirby Wilson were given more duties within the offense by Coach Tomlin).

It's very simple really. Stop wasting plays/drives with bums like Speath, Nix, and now the returning David Johnson on the field, stick with three wides, a TE, and a RB. Mix between having Ben under center, and the shotgun. Move the pocket to protect Ben and help the offensive line.

Regardless of how well Bell is playing, put DeAngelo in every 3rd series to preserve Bell's legs.

Get a true 3rd down back in the Verron Haynes mold also to help preserve BOTH Bell and Williams.

It's not rocket science. Again, go watch the games I listed above.

The LESSER Todd Haley is involved, the BETTER the offense works.

But he needs to check his ego at the door, and just allow the talent to do their jobs.

El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:

Crash wrote:

bayz101 wrote:

We need to rehire Arians to make the Steelers great again.

No, what they should do is hire ME!  

When Haley does it my way they dominate.  

But he doesn't do it nearly enough.  He's too busy trying to show how smart he is.

Were you part of the Steelers staff previously?  Seems as though somebody said the Steelers are worse off when they don't promote from within.  I think its an IRON CLAD FACT.  

Gonzo, I just realized that I'm qualified to be the next OC of the Steelers (although you've now muddied the waters on whether the iron clad fact applies to my outsider status). Apparently, all you have to do is put the best players on the field and get out of the way. Easy peasy! Gotta go update my résumé.

Crap. I'm not from Pittsburgh though, so I guess that disqualifies me.

Like I said to Gonzo, go watch the games I listed above.  What's the constant?  Little subbing, leaving the same people on the field, and they dominate.  

That's the problem with most of you Haley supporters, you watch games ONCE.  You don't pay attention to who is on the field when they are humming along, and who is on the field when they stink it up.  

Then you read box scores without context, and form your opinions off that.  

You people would rather have Haley micro-manage everything and lose games.  Instead of him doing what he should do, trust his quarterback and the talent around him, and win.  

Damn shame.

Crash wrote:

That's the problem with most of you Haley supporters, you watch games ONCE.  You don't pay attention to who is on the field when they are humming along, and who is on the field when they stink it up.  

Then you read box scores without context, and form your opinions off that.

I'm not a Haley supporter. I'm a Steelers supporter.

Your problem is that you're constantly in need of something to complain about. The Steelers could beat the Ravens 70-3, and after the game you'd do nothing but bitch about the defense giving up the field goal. Like I said in another post, the Steelers could have the No. 1 offense and win the Super Bowl this season, and you'd still bitch after the Super Bowl win and find reasons to complain about Haley. I have no doubt that you'd rather see the Steelers offense struggle just so you can cay "I told you so." You'd rather lose and be right than win and be wrong. Then again, even if they win, you'll still argue that you're right. Because you can't be content with winning. You're in constant search of the negative. As I've told you before, you're a smart guy who understands the game ... but you allow it to make you way too miserable. I know it will fall on deaf ears, but here's some friendly advice for you Crash ...

Here's another example:

4th and 3 in Cincy. Haley has three TE's in a bunch set and 2 WR's on the field, we don't convert? We lose. The Bengals have 9 men at the LOS.

Dummy Marvin Lewis calls timeout. Cooler heads then prevail, the Steelers change their formation, get rid of the backup TE's, spread them out with their WR's, they convert, they win.

The NEXT week, we have 4th and 1 in Denver. Coming off a STEELERS timeout, the Steelers again have three TE's on the field (one in the backfield who was the primary read on the play), a 3rd string running back, and Markus Wheaton. So in a game where Antonio Brown is already OUT, Haley had a 5-11 WR (Wheaton) being covered by the 6-1 Aquib Talib by taking the 6-5 Martavis Bryant off the field.

Unlike the previous week, Gary Kubiak didn't call timeout, he let Haley run the play designed for a TE with one catch and three yards in the past month, with BOTH Brown and Bryant off the field.

The 3rd string TE was covered, and the 6-1 Talib out-muscled the smaller Wheaton on the play.

The Broncos stopped the Steelers, the Broncos won the Super Bowl.

See what happens when you let Todd Haley sink himself by trying to get cute? You win rings.

The Steelers win NOTHING.