Let's have an unbiased discussion...

SteelCityUnderground wrote:

On 93.7 Ben says he saw no problem with Porter being on the field, because the offensive coaches are trying to work with the offense and write up a play, so you're not going to have the offensive coaches tend to the injured player.

That's a good point. What I don't get is why the Bengals had coaches on the field. None of their guys were hurt on the play.

ImmaculateGreenePolamalu wrote:

SteelCityUnderground wrote:

Shazier non-call was the right call

It looked worse, to be sure. But it was a legal play, for two reasons.

First, Bernard had the ball long enough to become a runner. As a runner, he wasn’t defenseless. Since he wasn’t defenseless, he could be hit in the head or neck area, and with Shazier’s helmet.

Indeed, the fact that Bernard had the ball long enough to complete the catch and make his loss of possession a fumble means that Bernard had become a runner.

Second, the ban against use of the crown of the helmet doesn’t apply in a bang-bang situation. It requires the person delivering the blow with the crown of the helmet to “line up” the target. While close, that’s not what happened between Bernard and Shazier.

So Shazier rightly wasn’t flagged, and he should be omitted from the coming flurry of fines. Bengals fans may not like that, but it reflects a correct interpretation of the rules.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/11/shazier-non-call-was-the-right-call/

Also, I think I mentioned it here earlier... Le'Veon Bell was similarly hit in the Thanksgiving Ravens game a few years ago. No flag. Ugly, but legal hit.

I saw that Shazier apologized to Bernard on Twitter. No word of any response from him at this point but it really wasn't an illegal hit for the reason you've already explained. I hated to see the guy get hurt but it was legal.

Yes, but I wasn't as sure about the crown-of-helmet part of the rules. This squares it away.

Also, if you want to see an actual crown helmet hit, check out the video near the bottom of this page, of Burfict's hit a week earlier: http://www.steelcityunderground.com/2016/01/12/bengals-fans-cry-steelers-are-dirty-cheaters/

Good discussion by Gregg Easterbrook in his Tuesday Morning Quarterback column in the NYT

Adventures in Officiating.

Late in the first half at Cincinnati, Bengals safety Shawn Williams was penalized for hitting Steelers receiver Markus Wheaton when Wheaton was defenseless; the walkoff helped position Pittsburgh for a field goal, in a game the Steelers would win by two points. Wheaton did not appear defenseless to me. He’d caught a pass, taken two strides, gotten his head up and was looking forward; Williams led with his shoulder, not his helmet. If Wheaton was “defenseless” as a runner in full stride, most tackles would be illegal.

That was the flag Cincinnati faithful should complain about. In the fourth quarter, Pittsburgh linebacker Ryan Shazier put a hard but legal hit on Cincinnati’s Giovani Bernard, causing a fumble. The reason this hit was legal was the same reason the Williams hit should have been legal. Bernard caught a pass, took two strides and got his head up; he was not defenseless, he was a runner.

The Vontaze Burfict hit on Antonio Brown was inexcusable. The league talks a good game on neurological safety. The league’s decision to suspend Burfict for just three games suggests it’s all talk.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/13/upshot/trump-says-nfl-is-boring-it-has-actually-never-been-more-exciting.html?rref=upshot

Sorry, I don't agree. The rule is much like targeting in college. Shazier was right there, bang-bang. He did not line up his target AND launch himself into the target.

Both hard hits, but different contexts.

I pointed out earlier that the Gio hit is the same as Bell getting hit near the goal line on Thanksgiving. That too was a no-flag, legal hit (not matter how much I hated it at the time.)

The always insightful Peter King has an "open letter" to NFL players in which he engages in deploring the conduct of the Steelers and Bengals equally (including the Shazier tackle) and then applauds  the conduct of ... Reggie Nelson  in the Denver game several weeks ago

Nelson could have hit Daniels in the head or knees, but in a split second, he took care to hit Daniels in the upper torso. A very hard hit, but the right hit. I talked to Nelson. One of the things he said to me: “We have to take care of ourselves. We’re one big family out there on the field.”

Ask Heath Miller and Le'Veon Bell how family member Reggie Nelson took care of them by not going low

An Open Letter to Players
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/01/11/nfl-open-letter-players

Epic take down of King's "open letter" by Deadspin

Peter King Sounds New Depths Of Stoogery With Open Letter To NFL Players

Authentic Licensed Official NFL Beverage Tote Peter King published an open letter from himself to NFL players—just the players—this morning, in response to Saturday night’s Steelers-Bengals game. That game notably included, depending on one’s perspective, either more than a normal football game’s fair share of reckless violence and buffoonery, or a normal football game’s fair share of reckless violence and buffoonery concentrated in high-leverage moments inconvenient to the prerogatives of the NFL’s brand. Peter King is worried, you see, about all this off-message tackling form.

http://deadspin.com/peter-king-sounds-new-depths-of-stoogery-with-open-lett-1752516301



Photo of King and his BFF Roger

^^^^^^^ from the deadspin article


wow!  that's great writing, and very true.  I have been drifting further and further away from NFL, the head injuries, receiving money to do the "honor veterans" half-time shows, there's just too much.

The entire league, the media, even former Bengals player like boomer are coming down hard on cinci, calling them and their fans classless. In an unbiased discussion they are still a bunch of scum.

harrison'samonster wrote:

^^^^^^^ from the deadspin article


wow!  that's great writing, and very true.  I have been drifting further and further away from NFL, the head injuries, receiving money to do the "honor veterans" half-time shows, there's just too much.

The full Deadspin article is outstanding

Of course the league or the Bengals should have dealt with Burfict no later than the Maxx Williams hit in week 17 - only when the pot boiled over Saturday night with 31 million watching does Roger tag Burfict with a three game slap on the wrist (certain to be reduced) and then have lackeys like King deplore the players inability to fix this themselves. It's like the classic scene in Casablanca.



So assume the players should self-police on this (as posters including OX1947 and I have been proposing) and as King appears to suggest should be done as a means to provide cover for his master Goodell. Peter King would have kittens and say there is no place in the game for this if DeCastro and Foster took it upon themselves to chop block Burfict onto the IR.

The hypocrisy is simply staggering.

All the complaining about Porter on the field annoys me the most. All the idiots on ESPN keep harping on it, but coaches ALWAYS go on field for injuries! It would take 2 minutes of research for those clowns to figure that out.

marvology wrote:

All the complaining about Porter on the field annoys me the most.  All the idiots on ESPN keep harping on it, but coaches ALWAYS go on field for injuries!  It would take 2 minutes of research for those clowns to figure that out.

Just posted this on my site a little bit ago (video included)

Why Joey Porter Should Not Be Fined - http://www.steelcityunderground.com/2016/01/13/why-joey-porter-should-not-be-fined/

Atlanta Dan wrote:

Photo of King and his BFF Roger

I never got a bib at Skyline.

marvology wrote:

All the complaining about Porter on the field annoys me the most.  All the idiots on ESPN keep harping on it, but coaches ALWAYS go on field for injuries!  It would take 2 minutes of research for those clowns to figure that out.

Hell there were Bengals coaches when Bernard got knocked out. That didn't bother me and it didn't bother any of the Steelers players either. Maybe Porter did say something that pissed off PacMan but you know what, Burfict had injured three key cogs of the Steelers offense so Porter was rightfully feeling pretty heated at that point. And if you watch the video Burfict tries to do something to AB as he lies knocked out and you can see a Steeler trainer push him away. Porter coming on to the field really isn't a huge deal. He probably will be fined to appease the crying babies in Cincy though.

jak341 wrote:

Atlanta Dan wrote:

Photo of King and his BFF Roger

I never got a bib at Skyline.

Probably because you weren't an obvious drooling idiot.

ImmaculateGreenePolamalu wrote:

marvology wrote:

All the complaining about Porter on the field annoys me the most.  All the idiots on ESPN keep harping on it, but coaches ALWAYS go on field for injuries!  It would take 2 minutes of research for those clowns to figure that out.

Hell there were Bengals coaches when Bernard got knocked out. That didn't bother me and it didn't bother any of the Steelers players either. Maybe Porter did say something that pissed off PacMan but you know what, Burfict had injured three key cogs of the Steelers offense so Porter was rightfully feeling pretty heated at that point. And if you watch the video Burfict tries to do something to AB as he lies knocked out and you can see a Steeler trainer push him away. Porter coming on to the field really isn't a huge deal. He probably will be fined to appease the crying babies in Cincy though.

I started a separate thread on this, and posted on my site too, but you can clearly see the trainer shy away Burfict, and it looks like Burfict says something right before Joey gets shoved from behind and clams up, knowing the gig is up. Porter could've said something, but Pacman making a claim, in that hostile stadium environment and being 10 yards away (at least) is preposterous, as he's nowhere within earshot of those two.

The truth is Jones didn't hear squat from Porter. He just couldn't control his thuggary and wanted to be the baddest man on the field after seeing his teammates pushing Porter around. He had to show he was the one to take it to another level.

kirklandrules wrote:

The truth is Jones didn't hear squat from Porter. He just couldn't control his thuggary and wanted to be the baddest man on the field after seeing his teammates pushing Porter around. He had to show he was the one to take it to another level.

I deal with thugs for a living, they can't stand not getting in that last word. They can't keep their mouths shut, they can't let someone else question them, or tell them what to do, or speak anything ill towards them. They can't keep their emotions in check. Most notably, they can't take responsibility for their own actions. Pacman is no different, he's been arrested numerous times for a reason. He's managed to keep himself out of trouble with the law for the most part because he focuses his thuggish attitude towards the game that he plays on the field. It bit him in the ass on Sunday, and cost his team a chance to win the game, but Bengals fans, and Pacman won't accept responsibility, it's always someone else's fault. In this case it's Joey Porter in their eyes.

When his career ends I'll give Jones 1 year before he is on his way to jail for awhile if he lasts that long.

solardave wrote:

When his career ends I'll give Jones 1 year before he is on his way to jail for awhile if he lasts that long.

Yeah I don't think he'll last very long. He'll assault somebody, that'll be his first arrest.