[Article] Antwaan Randle El feeling mental effects from football

Sad story about Randle-El. From the article:

Quote :

Perhaps even more telling is the fact that Randle El, just 36, has already started to feel the effects. He has trouble walking up and down the stairs and has mental lapses.

"I have to come down sideways sometimes, depending on the day," Randle El said.

Full story here.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/former-nfl-player-regrets-playing-201247271.html

Sad story - Randle-El's comments ran as part of the Post-Gazette's great online story that interviewed players from the Super Bowl X and XL champs

http://newsinteractive.post-gazette.com/10toBen/

National media picked up Randel-El's interview and now it is up as the lead story in the online P-G

Former Steelers receiver Antwaan Randle El: 'If I could go back, I wouldn't [play football]'

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2016/01/19/If-I-could-go-back-I-wouldn-t-play-football/stories/201601190177

NFL league office probably grateful Steelers lost and the ESPN, CBS and Fox pregame shows will not have to pretend to care about the collateral damage of playing the game by discussing this

The companion interview with Super Bowl X receiver Frank Lewis is equally depressing

For Lewis, it was easier to keep the blinders on. One time, a doctor was trying to remove them. He put a piece of paper on the floor and asked Lewis to bend down and pick it up. Then he called over another doctor, who was much older than Lewis, and asked him to do the same. Lewis couldn’t believe how much easier it was for the older man than for him.

“That’s what is happening to a lot of ex-ballplayers,” Lewis said. “You don’t realize what state and condition you’re actually in. You’re just so used to living with it. I never even thought about it until I had to bend down and get down on one knee to pick the paper up. It’s mind over matter.”

Some days, Lewis admits he feels almost “braindead.” He was surprised by his ability to remember his Steeler days during an interview. He doesn’t expect he will ever see a cent from the coming NFL concussion settlement, because he has enough sense to know there’s always somebody worse off than him.

Scary that a guy like Randle-El is saying things like that. I do think the NFL just needs to do away with the helmet to helmet stuff. No more high hits. Hit in the chest or below. I'd rather have a knee injured, than have my brain fried later on in life. A knee can be replaced/repaired within reason, a brain can't. Increase the penalties for high hits, and eject guys like Burfict immediately from games and automatically suspend them. If they become harsher in how they deal with high hits to the head then the players will adjust their game accordingly. Harrison is a great example, admittedly he used to go in high on a lot of his hits, and sometimes he launched himself. While this is fun to watch, it's dangerous, and I think football needs to evolve as a whole. It doesn't need to be two hand touch, but we don't need to see guys turning into vegetables, and killing themselves because of brain injuries either.

So long as football is around, these things are going to happen, there is no 100% foolproff way to stop concussions from happening. I had a concussion from a huge block that was laid on me in practice during high school football, and I wasn't even hit in the head. Perhaps the ground had something to do with it, I don't know, but they happen sometimes no matter how hard you try to avoid them.

I literally don't understand why they haven't increased the size of the helmets being used. I know it would look ridiculous for a while, but they have to do something to minimize head trauma. There must be a way to significantly reduce brain injuries through better equipment.

Has anyone heard of any radical changes to helmets for protection and safety that may be coming up? I have not.

Changing the rules will help, particularly if the kids learn at a young age to not hit with their heads or to hit the head of another player in any way when tackling. However, it can't be taken out of the game completely. Linemen will always be firing at each other in a way that there is no time to avoid contact. Running backs lower their heads to protect themselves, and are going to get hit or hit other players. Those scenarios are nearly impossible to take out of the game. At some point, it's not football anymore.

I still believe a combination of rule changes and equipment can really help.

I can't believe they haven't gone to padding on the outside of helmets yet. I know it doesn't look shiny and pretty, but I believe it would help. If they're serious about solving this problem, you would think that equipment would have changed more radically by now.

I ride motorcycles. The rule with motorcycle helmets is that if you have had an incident where the helmet contacted a hard surface, you should buy a new helmet. That's what I've heard my whole life from people concerned with safety because they say the integrity of the helmet can be compromised by contact.

How often do they get new helmets? Every day? Every week? I really have no idea. Does anyone know?

The one thing we do know is that there is enough money in the sport to do better than the current condition.

Padding, helmets and technique can all HELP in preventing concussions, but no amount of equipment or technique will prevent concussions because what many people either don't know or won't admit is that concussions are not all related to blows.

Everyone knows the old joke about jumping off the Empire State building that says it isn't the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop at the bottom.

There are basically two ways in which one can suffer brain trauma in football; one is due to impact but the other is due to deceleration.

In an impact concussion, a hard blow to the head causes damage to the brain by transmitting the force of the blow to the fluid in the skull and in the brain itself and since fluid cannot be compressed it multiplies the force of the blow and that force is transmitted to whatever gets in its way; in this case, brain tissue.  It's the same way in which a depth charge works against a submarine; it isn't the explosive that causes the damage but rather the sudden displacement of water and the force of that displacement is multiplied by the fact that fluid doesn't compress and it is that force-multiplied mass of fluid that damages the submarine.

But a deceleration concussion is more insidious because brain tissue damage often occurs even if a player does everything correctly in terms of technique or equipment. A brain is encased in a skull and there exists a small gap between the brain and the skull which is filled with fluid, so there is room between the brain and the skull which under normal circumstances allows the brain to move slightly and the fluid between the brain and the skull acts as a sort of shock-absorber.  But in cases of extreme deceleration (such as in a head-on football tackle) the body comes to a sudden halt (which of course includes the skull) and even if the tackle is "routine" and no blow to the head occurs,  momentum allows the brain to continue to move (Newton's First Law of Motion) until it is acted upon by an opposing force, which in this case is the skull.  The brain then crashes into the skull and then rebounds (the force of which is often multiplied by the fluid) and then strikes the opposite side of the skull.  This movement twists and distorts the brain and in the process tears tissue and of course causes damage.

According to rather lengthy article in Rolling Stone magazine in January of 2013, it is this tearing and twisting of brain tissue that is far more devastating than concussions caused by a forceful blow as it occurs to varying extents in almost all sudden deceleration incidents.  Worse still, this type of injury often goes undetected since no outward signs of concussion are presented and it tends to have a cumulative effect so that many years of such injury can eventually lead to future neurologic issues due to calcification and its attendant problems.

Let's face it, football is the only popular sport which requires that head-on collisions occur as a function of the game and these collisions happen on a regular basis and no matter what steps are taken to mitigate concussive injury through better equipment or education, the nature of the game ensures that concussive injury will always be a part of football.

The future of football boils down to the simple circumstance of how much or how long players, fans and the league are willing to accept the risks that will always be present as long as the game is played in the way in which it was designed to be played.

Here's a link to the Rolling Stone article:  
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/this-is-your-brain-on-football-20130131

oh God please I can't go back to watching baseball, somebody fix this

harrison'samonster wrote:

oh God please I can't go back to watching baseball, somebody fix this

Can't watch hockey fights.



Amazing that they still allow hockey fights.

The problem with how this is being played out nationally is this: it's being said "ARE would not play football if he had to do it again." That's not really what he said. He said HE WOULD PLAY BASEBALL INSTEAD. So.... what he said was "I still wanted the lifestyle of a professional athlete with all it's fame and fortune, but baseball would afford me better health afterwards." That's not quite the same as saying I wish I'd become an accountant.

As the saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

[quote="Vis"]

harrison'samonster wrote:

Amazing that they still allow hockey fights.  

amazing hockey is still considered a professional sport

seriously hockey was starting to grow in the mid 90's when I was very young. Maybe it's just me and my fear of water in all of it's forms, but I never got into hockey.

DesertSteel wrote:

The problem with how this is being played out nationally is this: it's being said "ARE would not play football if he had to do it again." That's not really what he said. He said HE WOULD PLAY BASEBALL INSTEAD. So.... what he said was "I still wanted the lifestyle of a professional athlete with all it's fame and fortune, but baseball would afford me better health afterwards." That's not quite the same as saying I wish I'd become an accountant.

As the saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I'd have to disagree on this one. Randle El says he was drafted by the Cubs, but didn't sign because his parents wanted him to continue his education. The education route led to him developing into a professional football player. So if the fame and fortune lifestyle was what he really wanted, you would think he would have jumped at a chance to sign that first contract.

I think what he's really trying to say is if he had known better about the health affects of playing NFL football, he wouldn't have signed up for it, no amount of money or fame is worth it to him.

harrison'samonster wrote:

DesertSteel wrote:

The problem with how this is being played out nationally is this: it's being said "ARE would not play football if he had to do it again." That's not really what he said. He said HE WOULD PLAY BASEBALL INSTEAD. So.... what he said was "I still wanted the lifestyle of a professional athlete with all it's fame and fortune, but baseball would afford me better health afterwards." That's not quite the same as saying I wish I'd become an accountant.

As the saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I'd have to disagree on this one.  Randle El says he was drafted by the Cubs, but didn't sign because his parents wanted him to continue his education.  The education route led to him developing into a professional football player.  So if the fame and fortune lifestyle was what he really wanted, you would think he would have jumped at a chance to sign that first contract.

I think what he's really trying to say is if he had known better about the health affects of playing NFL football, he wouldn't have signed up for it, no amount of money or fame is worth it to him.

That's the whole point of a regret... you wish you would have done it the other way.

DesertSteel wrote:

harrison'samonster wrote:

DesertSteel wrote:

The problem with how this is being played out nationally is this: it's being said "ARE would not play football if he had to do it again." That's not really what he said. He said HE WOULD PLAY BASEBALL INSTEAD. So.... what he said was "I still wanted the lifestyle of a professional athlete with all it's fame and fortune, but baseball would afford me better health afterwards." That's not quite the same as saying I wish I'd become an accountant.

As the saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I'd have to disagree on this one.  Randle El says he was drafted by the Cubs, but didn't sign because his parents wanted him to continue his education.  The education route led to him developing into a professional football player.  So if the fame and fortune lifestyle was what he really wanted, you would think he would have jumped at a chance to sign that first contract.

I think what he's really trying to say is if he had known better about the health affects of playing NFL football, he wouldn't have signed up for it, no amount of money or fame is worth it to him.

That's the whole point of a regret... you wish you would have done it the other way.

You've lost me. I think we agree that he regrets playing football.

harrison'samonster wrote:

DesertSteel wrote:

harrison'samonster wrote:

DesertSteel wrote:

The problem with how this is being played out nationally is this: it's being said "ARE would not play football if he had to do it again." That's not really what he said. He said HE WOULD PLAY BASEBALL INSTEAD. So.... what he said was "I still wanted the lifestyle of a professional athlete with all it's fame and fortune, but baseball would afford me better health afterwards." That's not quite the same as saying I wish I'd become an accountant.

As the saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I'd have to disagree on this one.  Randle El says he was drafted by the Cubs, but didn't sign because his parents wanted him to continue his education.  The education route led to him developing into a professional football player.  So if the fame and fortune lifestyle was what he really wanted, you would think he would have jumped at a chance to sign that first contract.

I think what he's really trying to say is if he had known better about the health affects of playing NFL football, he wouldn't have signed up for it, no amount of money or fame is worth it to him.

That's the whole point of a regret... you wish you would have done it the other way.

You've lost me.  I think we agree that he regrets playing football.

You said that if that's what he wanted he would have done it. My point is that he REGRETS not doing it.

"If I could go back, I wouldn't," he said. "I would play baseball."

So, my larger point is that he's not saying he'd trade football for an Average Joe life, but he'd trade it for being a Major League Baseball player. That's different than just saying "I wouldn't play football" because he wouldn't be losing the fame and fortune in his hypothetical scenario.

DesertSteel wrote:

You said that if that's what he wanted he would have done it. My point is that he REGRETS not doing it.

"If I could go back, I wouldn't," he said. "I would play baseball."

So, my larger point is that he's not saying he'd trade football for an Average Joe life, but he'd trade it for being a Major League Baseball player. That's different than just saying "I wouldn't play football" because he wouldn't be losing the fame and fortune in his hypothetical scenario.

Oh okay. So you're saying he wouldn't trade away the fame and fortune, just the way he achieved it?

Keep in mind though that for most of us, the statment "I would play baseball" seems like wishful thinking that wouldn't amount to anything. But to somebody who was drafted out of high school and was athletic enough to play for about 10 years in the NFL, it's like bringing up a viable career path and not just a path to fame and fortune.

So when he says "If I could go back, I wouldn't. I would play baseball." I think he sincerely wishes he didn't play such a physically destructive sport, and instead chose another practical (in his case, not ours) career choice.

And where I think I disagree with you is that when you say "he's not saying he'd trade football for an Average Joe life", I am inferring that you mean he would trade away football as long as he could guarantee the fame and fortune. I don't believe this is true, I think he's just saying baseball to him would have been a very practical career path instead.

DesertSteel wrote:

harrison'samonster wrote:

DesertSteel wrote:

harrison'samonster wrote:

DesertSteel wrote:

The problem with how this is being played out nationally is this: it's being said "ARE would not play football if he had to do it again." That's not really what he said. He said HE WOULD PLAY BASEBALL INSTEAD. So.... what he said was "I still wanted the lifestyle of a professional athlete with all it's fame and fortune, but baseball would afford me better health afterwards." That's not quite the same as saying I wish I'd become an accountant.

As the saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I'd have to disagree on this one.  Randle El says he was drafted by the Cubs, but didn't sign because his parents wanted him to continue his education.  The education route led to him developing into a professional football player.  So if the fame and fortune lifestyle was what he really wanted, you would think he would have jumped at a chance to sign that first contract.

I think what he's really trying to say is if he had known better about the health affects of playing NFL football, he wouldn't have signed up for it, no amount of money or fame is worth it to him.

That's the whole point of a regret... you wish you would have done it the other way.

You've lost me.  I think we agree that he regrets playing football.

You said that if that's what he wanted he would have done it. My point is that he REGRETS not doing it.

"If I could go back, I wouldn't," he said. "I would play baseball."

So, my larger point is that he's not saying he'd trade football for an Average Joe life, but he'd trade it for being a Major League Baseball player. That's different than just saying "I wouldn't play football" because he wouldn't be losing the fame and fortune in his hypothetical scenario.

An athlete choosing the safer sport doesn't mean he thinks there's a guarantee of the same financial success. Jordan chose to try baseball and he sucked. But the idea is the death of football if an honest evaluation of the risk leads the best athletes avoiding the sport.

I'm also uncomfortable with arguing the trade off that goes like this, "listen, dude, you're going to die early and in pain and may be unable to even think clearly but we'll pay you well - all so we get our bloodsport entertainment while stuffing ourselves on wings and beer." I don't want a return to the old ways of football. I can't unlearn the human costs to the knockout hits. It's not fun to see the hits that really hurt players and could destroy their lives. I'm for all things that make it safer.

Really sheds light on how a marijuana related offense and something like what Vontaze Burfict's does equaling out to the same suspension length is, unsettling.

Specifically citing Martavis Bryant.

harrison'samonster wrote:

DesertSteel wrote:

You said that if that's what he wanted he would have done it. My point is that he REGRETS not doing it.

"If I could go back, I wouldn't," he said. "I would play baseball."

So, my larger point is that he's not saying he'd trade football for an Average Joe life, but he'd trade it for being a Major League Baseball player. That's different than just saying "I wouldn't play football" because he wouldn't be losing the fame and fortune in his hypothetical scenario.

Oh okay.  So you're saying he wouldn't trade away the fame and fortune, just the way he achieved it?  

Keep in mind though that for most of us, the statment "I would play baseball" seems like wishful thinking that wouldn't amount to anything. But to somebody who was drafted out of high school and was athletic enough to play for about 10 years in the NFL, it's like bringing up a viable career path and not just a path to fame and fortune.

So when he says "If I could go back, I wouldn't.  I would play baseball."  I think he sincerely wishes he didn't play such a physically destructive sport, and instead chose another practical (in his case, not ours) career choice.  

And where I think I disagree with you is that when you say "he's not saying he'd trade football for an Average Joe life", I am inferring that you mean he would trade away football as long as he could guarantee the fame and fortune.  I don't believe this is true, I think he's just saying baseball to him would have been a very practical career path instead.

The bigger picture is that the NFL is Risk/Reward. Potential injury in exchange for millions of dollars. Most will continue to take the risk. To say that he would rather have been a baseball player after the fact is less meaningful to me.

Honestly it seems like you two are either arguing the same point at each other or neither of you exactly know what your point is.

DesertSteel wrote:

The bigger picture is that the NFL is Risk/Reward. Potential injury in exchange for millions of dollars. Most will continue to take the risk. To say that he would rather have been a baseball player after the fact is less meaningful to me.

I don't think that's necessarily so. We'll see in the future whether the best athletes continue choosing football. Yes, there will always be people willing to sacrifice there health for money. But the more people hear about stories like this, the less willing you'll see top athletes choose football. The sport will decline, and the money won't be as rewarding.

I think it's worth listening to ARE, he has first hand experience of his situation. I think the more people who hear about the affects of playing football will steer them away from the sport, no matter what the reward. We're assuming they are thinking "it's either football or nothing for me." Many of these players have other options to gain money.

KeepHarrisonTilHes92 wrote:

Honestly it seems like you two are either arguing the same point at each other or neither of you exactly know what your point is.

aren't we arguing about which end of the egg to crack.

Vis wrote:

An athlete choosing the safer sport doesn't mean he thinks there's a guarantee of the same financial success.  Jordan chose to try baseball and he sucked.  But the idea is the death of football if an honest evaluation of the risk leads the best athletes avoiding the sport.  

Everyone has a right to choose. Unfortunately, none of us can turn back the clock. There are some decisions that I made in my 20s that brought absolute hell into my life for years.

As for Jordan, that's apples to oranges. He had already made hundreds of millions when he gave baseball a try.

Quote :

I'm also uncomfortable with arguing the trade off that goes like this, "listen, dude, you're going to die early and in pain and may be unable to even think clearly but we'll pay you well - all so we get our bloodsport entertainment while stuffing ourselves on wings and beer."  I don't want a return to the old ways of football.  I can't unlearn the human costs to the knockout hits.  It's not fun to see the hits that really hurt players and could destroy their lives.  I'm for all things that make it safer.  

I'm for making the game as safe as possible, but it is a tradeoff and they know it. If they don't like the risk, they should do what the SF linebacker did and walk away.

harrison'samonster wrote:

DesertSteel wrote:

The bigger picture is that the NFL is Risk/Reward. Potential injury in exchange for millions of dollars. Most will continue to take the risk. To say that he would rather have been a baseball player after the fact is less meaningful to me.

I don't think that's necessarily so.  We'll see in the future whether the best athletes continue choosing football.  Yes, there will always be people willing to sacrifice there health for money.  But the more people hear about stories like this, the less willing you'll see top athletes choose football.  The sport will decline, and the money won't be as rewarding.

I think it's worth listening to ARE, he has first hand experience of his situation.  I think the more people who hear about the affects of playing football will steer them away from the sport, no matter what the reward.  We're assuming they are thinking "it's either football or nothing for me."  Many of these players have other options to gain money.

If they have the option of playing another sport, they should. My only point was that ARE was talking about PICKING ANOTHER SPORT........ not just "I wish I'd never played."

Burfict deserves a lifetime ban if there is one further incident of intentionally trying to injure a player.

DesertSteel wrote:

Vis wrote:

An athlete choosing the safer sport doesn't mean he thinks there's a guarantee of the same financial success.  Jordan chose to try baseball and he sucked.  But the idea is the death of football if an honest evaluation of the risk leads the best athletes avoiding the sport.  

Everyone has a right to choose. Unfortunately, none of us can turn back the clock. There are some decisions that I made in my 20s that brought absolute hell into my life for years.

As for Jordan, that's apples to oranges. He had already made hundreds of millions when he gave baseball a try.

Quote :

I'm also uncomfortable with arguing the trade off that goes like this, "listen, dude, you're going to die early and in pain and may be unable to even think clearly but we'll pay you well - all so we get our bloodsport entertainment while stuffing ourselves on wings and beer."  I don't want a return to the old ways of football.  I can't unlearn the human costs to the knockout hits.  It's not fun to see the hits that really hurt players and could destroy their lives.  I'm for all things that make it safer.  

I'm for making the game as safe as possible, but it is a tradeoff and they know it. If they don't like the risk, they should do what the SF linebacker did and walk away.

The point is they don't know it just like you don't know it.  They are cavalier about it because they feel immortal.  You are cavalier about it because you want to watch.  Truly understanding the risks takes more than hearing the words "possible brain damage".  Informed consent doesn't exist.  Here's a sample of what it could be:

Quote :

Drafted Player (DP)
“I have a chance to live my dream. I got drafted! This is incredible.”
Advisor/Agent (AA)
“Fantastic. Now we can negotiate with the teams to get you're a contract that matches your slot.”
RP    “How soon can we start?”
AA   “I meet with the team in two days, but before I begin we need to talk about something that a recent settlement with the league mandates.”
DP    “Got it. What’s up?”
AA   “Well, I need to alert you to the fact that football can be dangerous to your health. Here is a list of the dangers. I also have a video you can watch.”
DP    “Come on man. Of course I know that. I have three surgeries to prove it. This is news?  Football is a violent and dangerous game, I know that.”
AA   “Well I need you to read this disclaimer and check the part of about brain trauma, dementia and compromised judgment.”
DP    “Yeah, I’ll read it, but I know this stuff. I’m not afraid of this. My bonus will cover it all. Besides, this stuff is a hundred years in the future.”
AA   “Well actually, it’s about 20 to 30 years in the future, but you are right, most of these injuries start to impact you in your late forties. Sadly Chris Henry suffered it when he was 26. I also want to remind you that we may need to set aside some funds for this just in case from your signing bonus or your first year.”
DP    “Look, this is stupid. I am 23. I will be fine and besides I owe it to my mom and friends to take care of them. I promised my mom a new house, and I want her out of where she lives. Man, I suffered for this, and I want my return. She deserves this. I can take care of the stuff later. I’ve got a lot of money. Right now, just get the money so I can take care of my family.”
AA   “I just want to be clear. Football is dangerous and brutal and violent. We both know that.  Well, the court settlement does give you the option of talking to some guys, watching videos or going to a panel to talk about how to think about these injuries and prepare for it.”
DP   “I know what I’m getting into. I have the scars on my knee and shoulder to prove it. Besides I’m a lineman, and I’ve never had a concussion so I’m not that worried about it.”
AA   “Well some doctors think it’s not about concussions, but it about repetition. A number of players have had serious brain issues without any real concussions.”
DP   “Ok, OK. I’ll think about it. But I’ll take the risk. This is my one shot, my one chance. Football is what got me here. I owe it to myself and to my family. Besides I’ve read the interviews. Most of the guys say they’d do it all again even if they have sore knees.”
AA   “Well, OK. But remember you have been duly notified as required by the terms of the court settlement.”
DP    “By the way, what do the guys who have suffered brain damage say about how they are handling it.”
AA   “Well it’s kind of hard to figure out.”
DP    “What?”
AA  “Well. You know for some of the guys. Well, you know. Well, it’s like this.”
DP    “What are you getting to? Come on, spit it out.”
AA   “Well. A lot of them are not compos mentis.”
DP    “Come on. I’ve got a degree, but I did not take French.”
AA   “Well they aren’t really all the able to talk about how they are doing. You see, well. You see. Well a couple are living with tubes in their throats and respirators. Some of them are not all that stable or coherent all the time.”
DP    “This is getting a little weird.”
AA   “Look I’m trying to help. Think of it this way. You get wealth, privilege, fun and status for awhile.”
DP    “Yeah. I know. That’s the whole point of this.”
AA   “Well the other side is. You potentially give them your soul.”
DP    “This is a little metaphysical man, are you sure you are OK?”
AA   “I just want you to know. Their wives do most of the talking.”
DP    “Well I read about some other guys who were big names like Seau and Easterboork who were struggling with this. What did they say?”
AA   “Well, they can’t say much. They committed suicide.”
DRP   “Your’e shitten me, man. Look man, this is getting us nowhere. What do you expect me to do, go manage a car rental office?    ---         This won’t happen to me. Let’s make this happen.”

http://pointofthegame.blogspot.com/2012/08/soul-death-in-football-informed-consent.html

Well the NFL needs to implement these new helmets IMMEDIATELY! They need to make EVERY player wear these, including baby Brady who refuses to wear the latest helmets. Watch this vid, there is a drop test with the new Vicis helmet pitted against the latest Riddell SpeedFlex. The sure future of the NFL, college football and probably even hockey!