Is Ben Roethlisberger In The Same Elite Category As Peyton Manning?

Im starting to read all this and honestly kind of siding with Steelers5895. This borderline 'Manning and Rivers are shit qbs' talk is just odd to me. It seems to come down to youre not that good if you cant win the big one with a shit O-Line. Well that rarely happens. But that doesnt mean there arent good QBs out there. The average football fan looks at all QBs, their numbers, their ups and downs. Not how they stack up to Big Ben. Give me Big Ben any day but this discussion is sinking into shit a little bit. Manning was a stud on the field, come on. If youd rather Roethlisberger than say that but be mindful we do bave our own biases that we have to acknowlege. Manning is considered a choke artist because he choked in the playoffs a couple times, but hes been to the playoffs more than a couple of times. Hes not ordering a pizza down there reading defenses like he does.

Ben can do all that and hes showing it as of late. Its just natural to expect from a good quarterback hitting his prime. Manning's prime was 2013 apparently. That badass record breaking season did happen. And he was throwing to who? Aint no stud WRs like in Pittsburgh. Manning made those WRs more than Ben makes AB and Martavis for instance. He does make them who they are but anyone can eye test that theyre bigger studs than Pfft... Emmanuel Sanders.

steelers5895 wrote:

not sure why we have to criticize other players with opinions to make your point.

so I guess the 2 MVPs and Super Bowl win where he shredded our defense was just luck and hype.


moving on from this.  I cant stop laughing at your posts.

Okay, I've personally had about enough of your elitist tone with people. For someone that has been complaining about being picked on, I find it funny that I keep seeing you on here poking the bear with people, and trying to "stir the pot". We've given you ample opportunity to adjust your attitude. You're acting like a giant hypocrite dismissing the opinions of others, and then bemoaning the so-called "rabble rousers" who are allegedly picking on you.

Consider this fair warning, stop trying to stir the pot with other members. You're one person on this board, and it seems quite a few people have taken issue with you, some of these people are people I've known for a long time on the forums, and I've never seen them take issue with anyone. I was holding out hope that you were just a little against the norm, but you're starting to go more into the land of trolling people for negative responses and acting like you're smarter than everyone else.

Enough already. Treat others how you'd like to be treated, with respect and dignity, or we'll do what we have to do. I'm not going to beat around the bush anymore. We're giving you a chance, don't waste it being petty and short with people. Sometimes you post opinions up and I actually agree with you, it's when you take it a step further and act as if you're opinion is the only opinion is where you are in the wrong.

So many other QBs have been discussed in a thread that is only comparing 2. We're gonna make this a closed question (meaning only a yes or no answer)

Is Roethlisberger in the same elite category as Manning?

My opinion, yes.

SteelersYak wrote:

So many other QBs have been discussed in a thread that is only comparing 2.  We're gonna make this a closed question (meaning only a yes or no answer)

Is Roethlisberger in the same elite category as Manning?

My opinion, yes.

In answering Yaks question I'm in the same boat.
Personally of the 'elite' QBs right now there are only 2 in my opinion and they are Ben and Rodgers.

SteelersNorth wrote:

SteelersYak wrote:

So many other QBs have been discussed in a thread that is only comparing 2.  We're gonna make this a closed question (meaning only a yes or no answer)

Is Roethlisberger in the same elite category as Manning?

My opinion, yes.

In answering Yaks question I'm in the same boat.
Personally of the 'elite' QBs right now there are only 2 in my opinion and they are Ben and Rodgers.

 

Brady's not elite?  Hate and prejudice put aside?

He takes run of the mill wide receivers and turns them into big contributors year after year.

Personally, I can't stand him, but to not list him as one of the elite QB's in the league doesn't make much football sense.

FrancoLambert wrote:

SteelersNorth wrote:

SteelersYak wrote:

So many other QBs have been discussed in a thread that is only comparing 2.  We're gonna make this a closed question (meaning only a yes or no answer)

Is Roethlisberger in the same elite category as Manning?

My opinion, yes.

In answering Yaks question I'm in the same boat.
Personally of the 'elite' QBs right now there are only 2 in my opinion and they are Ben and Rodgers.

 

Brady's not elite?  Hate and prejudice put aside?

He takes run of the mill wide receivers and turns them into big contributors year after year.

Personally, I can't stand him, but to not list him as one of the elite QB's in the league doesn't make much football sense.

I understand if you or anyone else puts him in that category because I gave them a pass with spygate and until the deflategate stuff I had him there too. But now there's no way.

Because if they didn't tape teams maybe they don't win 3 in 4 years, maybe they win 1, maybe they win zero. We'll never know.
And since 07 when teams were able to start to doctor/muck balls to their liking maybe, just maybe, he doesn't make 3 more and win 1.
Again we'll never know but I say the NFL does what the Tour de France did with Lance Armstrong and for those 4 years they 'won' you don't recognize a winner.

KeepHarrisonTilHes92 wrote:

Im starting to read all this and honestly kind of siding with Steelers5895. This borderline 'Manning and Rivers are shit qbs' talk is just odd to me. It seems to come down to youre not that good if you cant win the big one with a shit O-Line. Well that rarely happens. But that doesnt mean there arent good QBs out there. The average football fan looks at all QBs, their numbers, their ups and downs. Not how they stack up to Big Ben. Give me Big Ben any day but this discussion is sinking into shit a little bit. Manning was a stud on the field, come on. If youd rather Roethlisberger than say that but be mindful we do bave our own biases that we have to acknowlege. Manning is considered a choke artist because he choked in the playoffs a couple times, but hes been to the playoffs more than a couple of times. Hes not ordering a pizza down there reading defenses like he does.

Ben can do all that and hes showing it as of late. Its just natural to expect from a good quarterback hitting his prime. Manning's prime was 2013 apparently. That badass record breaking season did happen. And he was throwing to who? Aint no stud WRs like in Pittsburgh. Manning made those WRs more than Ben makes AB and Martavis for instance. He does make them who they are but anyone can eye test that theyre bigger studs than Pfft... Emmanuel Sanders.

I'm not sure people are calling Manning and Rivers shit QBs as much as they are pointing out that they have their faults too. Isn't that part of the debate ... identifying the pros and cons of each? Personally, I believe Manning and Rivers are both great QBs. Saying otherwise is a little ridiculous. I did lose respect for Manning because he threw his o-line under the bus, publically, after the Steelers beat the tar out of him. He also has the tendency to piss himself in big games. Where I fault Manning, I praise Ben. With all the injuries he's had holding the ball longer than he should, he still plays strong and doesn't appear to be wetting himself when the pressure is on. As a Steelers fan, you love seeing your QB run to the sideline with his nose bent sideways, have a trainer grab it and pull it straight, then put his helmet on and not miss a damned down. I'm not sure there's another QB in the league today that does that. I've said it several times over the years, Ben is a football player first and a QB second. His style of play fits what Steelers fans love (or at least 99% of us). And we're a little frustrated that Ben has largely been ignored by the national media when discussing great QBs.

I do agree with you that Manning was great in 2013, although he did have Darrius Heyward-Bey.

But I disagree that Ben doesn't make his receivers better. In his absence, Brown and the passing game fell flat. This past season held proof that Ben is a master at getting the ball to receivers in places that other QBs can't. He makes good receivers great. All my opinion.

SteelersNorth wrote:

FrancoLambert wrote:

SteelersNorth wrote:

SteelersYak wrote:

So many other QBs have been discussed in a thread that is only comparing 2.  We're gonna make this a closed question (meaning only a yes or no answer)

Is Roethlisberger in the same elite category as Manning?

My opinion, yes.

In answering Yaks question I'm in the same boat.
Personally of the 'elite' QBs right now there are only 2 in my opinion and they are Ben and Rodgers.

 

Brady's not elite?  Hate and prejudice put aside?

He takes run of the mill wide receivers and turns them into big contributors year after year.

Personally, I can't stand him, but to not list him as one of the elite QB's in the league doesn't make much football sense.

I understand if you or anyone else puts him in that category because I gave them a pass with spygate and until the deflategate stuff I had him there too. But now there's no way.

Because if they didn't tape teams maybe they don't win 3 in 4 years, maybe they win 1, maybe they win zero. We'll never know.
And since 07 when teams were able to start to doctor/muck balls to their liking maybe, just maybe, he doesn't make 3 more and win 1.
Again we'll never know but I say the NFL does what the Tour de France did with Lance Armstrong and for those 4 years they 'won' you don't recognize a winner.

They definitely would not have beat the Steelers in that AFC Championship game in Pittsburgh in 2005 (2004 season) without cheating. The Steelers were 15-1 and had the #1 defense in the league. Stealing signals allowed them to carve that defense up to the tune of 41 points. On the road against the top rated defense and they absolutely tore them apart. And they admit they cheated in that game, that's a  fact. They gave the league their tapes and notes (which the league promptly destroyed to cover it up). Brady is great when his coaches know where the safeties are going to be during the play. Brady is great when the ball is a little softer and his team has fewer fumbles than everyone else during that span (but those same players go back to fumbling after they leave NE). I suspect Brady is a good QB, but to North's point how good was Armstrong when he wasn't cheating? Who knows, he's a cheater, as is Brady. So I'll say Brady is great when they are cheating.

kirklandrules wrote:

KeepHarrisonTilHes92 wrote:

Im starting to read all this and honestly kind of siding with Steelers5895. This borderline 'Manning and Rivers are shit qbs' talk is just odd to me. It seems to come down to youre not that good if you cant win the big one with a shit O-Line. Well that rarely happens. But that doesnt mean there arent good QBs out there. The average football fan looks at all QBs, their numbers, their ups and downs. Not how they stack up to Big Ben. Give me Big Ben any day but this discussion is sinking into shit a little bit. Manning was a stud on the field, come on. If youd rather Roethlisberger than say that but be mindful we do bave our own biases that we have to acknowlege. Manning is considered a choke artist because he choked in the playoffs a couple times, but hes been to the playoffs more than a couple of times. Hes not ordering a pizza down there reading defenses like he does.

Ben can do all that and hes showing it as of late. Its just natural to expect from a good quarterback hitting his prime. Manning's prime was 2013 apparently. That badass record breaking season did happen. And he was throwing to who? Aint no stud WRs like in Pittsburgh. Manning made those WRs more than Ben makes AB and Martavis for instance. He does make them who they are but anyone can eye test that theyre bigger studs than Pfft... Emmanuel Sanders.

I'm not sure people are calling Manning and Rivers shit QBs as much as they are pointing out that they have their faults too. Isn't that part of the debate ... identifying the pros and cons of each? Personally, I believe Manning and Rivers are both great QBs. Saying otherwise is a little ridiculous. I did lose respect for Manning because he threw his o-line under the bus, publically, after the Steelers beat the tar out of him. He also has the tendency to piss himself in big games. Where I fault Manning, I praise Ben. With all the injuries he's had holding the ball longer than he should, he still plays strong and doesn't appear to be wetting himself when the pressure is on. As a Steelers fan, you love seeing your QB run to the sideline with his nose bent sideways, have a trainer grab it and pull it straight, then put his helmet on and not miss a damned down. I'm not sure there's another QB in the league today that does that. I've said it several times over the years, Ben is a football player first and a QB second. His style of play fits what Steelers fans love (or at least 99% of us). And we're a little frustrated that Ben has largely been ignored by the national media when discussing great QBs.

I do agree with you that Manning was great in 2013, although he did have Darrius Heyward-Bey.

But I disagree that Ben doesn't make his receivers better. In his absence, Brown and the passing game fell flat. This past season held proof that Ben is a master at getting the ball to receivers in places that other QBs can't. He makes good receivers great. All my opinion.

You're last point is basically what I said previously or I meant too lol

That is exactly why I think Ben is just far better than Rivers because he makes those guys around him that much better.

I don't care if Ben gets ignored all I ask is that when you make the list of the 'elite' he's on that list. THen run your feature on anyone else you want lol

SteelersNorth wrote:

FrancoLambert wrote:

SteelersNorth wrote:

SteelersYak wrote:

So many other QBs have been discussed in a thread that is only comparing 2.  We're gonna make this a closed question (meaning only a yes or no answer)

Is Roethlisberger in the same elite category as Manning?

My opinion, yes.

In answering Yaks question I'm in the same boat.
Personally of the 'elite' QBs right now there are only 2 in my opinion and they are Ben and Rodgers.

 

Brady's not elite?  Hate and prejudice put aside?

He takes run of the mill wide receivers and turns them into big contributors year after year.

Personally, I can't stand him, but to not list him as one of the elite QB's in the league doesn't make much football sense.

I understand if you or anyone else puts him in that category because I gave them a pass with spygate and until the deflategate stuff I had him there too. But now there's no way.

Because if they didn't tape teams maybe they don't win 3 in 4 years, maybe they win 1, maybe they win zero. We'll never know.
And since 07 when teams were able to start to doctor/muck balls to their liking maybe, just maybe, he doesn't make 3 more and win 1.
Again we'll never know but I say the NFL does what the Tour de France did with Lance Armstrong and for those 4 years they 'won' you don't recognize a winner.

That's a lot of "maybes" to take him out of the elite group of QB's in the NFL.  

My guess is that most, if not all, of the GM's in the league would classify Brady as an elite QB.

KeepHarrisonTilHes92 wrote:

Im starting to read all this and honestly kind of siding with Steelers5895. This borderline 'Manning and Rivers are shit qbs' talk is just odd to me. It seems to come down to youre not that good if you cant win the big one with a shit O-Line. Well that rarely happens. But that doesnt mean there arent good QBs out there.

I think I am responsible for dragging Rivers into this by quoting the New York Times columnist who said with Peyton's retirement the golden age of QBs is drawing to a close and then named Brady, Brees and Rivers as the three other golden age QBs while saying the test of greatness is championships.

Rivers of course has never won more than a division title. Rivers is a very good QB but at some point you have to win something - I have never understood Rivers (1 AFC championship game appearance) being mentioned in any list of QBs that does also include Ben (4 AFC championship games, 3 Super Bowl appearances, 2 Lombardis) and Eli (2 Lombardis and 2 road wins in NFC championship games). Rivers has played with some talented teammates too.

FrancoLambert wrote:

SteelersNorth wrote:

FrancoLambert wrote:

SteelersNorth wrote:

SteelersYak wrote:

So many other QBs have been discussed in a thread that is only comparing 2.  We're gonna make this a closed question (meaning only a yes or no answer)

Is Roethlisberger in the same elite category as Manning?

My opinion, yes.

In answering Yaks question I'm in the same boat.
Personally of the 'elite' QBs right now there are only 2 in my opinion and they are Ben and Rodgers.

 

Brady's not elite?  Hate and prejudice put aside?

He takes run of the mill wide receivers and turns them into big contributors year after year.

Personally, I can't stand him, but to not list him as one of the elite QB's in the league doesn't make much football sense.

I understand if you or anyone else puts him in that category because I gave them a pass with spygate and until the deflategate stuff I had him there too. But now there's no way.

Because if they didn't tape teams maybe they don't win 3 in 4 years, maybe they win 1, maybe they win zero. We'll never know.
And since 07 when teams were able to start to doctor/muck balls to their liking maybe, just maybe, he doesn't make 3 more and win 1.
Again we'll never know but I say the NFL does what the Tour de France did with Lance Armstrong and for those 4 years they 'won' you don't recognize a winner.

That's a lot of "maybes" to take him out of the elite group of QB's in the NFL.  

My guess is that most, if not all, of the GM's in the league would classify Brady as an elite QB.

I'm just on the other side of the fence is all.
But you're probably right on all the GMs thinking that way.

Atlanta Dan wrote:

KeepHarrisonTilHes92 wrote:

Im starting to read all this and honestly kind of siding with Steelers5895. This borderline 'Manning and Rivers are shit qbs' talk is just odd to me. It seems to come down to youre not that good if you cant win the big one with a shit O-Line. Well that rarely happens. But that doesnt mean there arent good QBs out there.

I think I am responsible for dragging Rivers into this by quoting the New York Times columnist who said with Peyton's retirement the golden age of QBs is drawing to a close and then named Brady, Brees and Rivers as the three other golden age QBs while saying the test of greatness is championships.  

Rivers of course has never won more than a division title.   Rivers is a very good QB but at some point you have to win something - I have never understood Rivers (1 AFC championship game appearance) being mentioned in any list of QBs that does also include Ben (4 AFC championship games, 3 Super Bowl appearances, 2 Lombardis) and Eli (2 Lombardis and 2 road wins in NFC championship games).    Rivers has played with some talented teammates too.    

Definitely fair enough. He is lightyears from being called elite.

There isn't a QB in the NFL that is a better fit for the Steelers than BR7.