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PostSubject: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 1:31 pm

Ok, I'll start it. Since we're a small group and there's no one really jumping on the FA bandwagon.

I can't take it anymore. Bruce Arians is no longer (as if he was ever) a reason for our victories. Our victories come in spite of him and his inability to call a game based on what team he is playing and situations that arise during the game.

He will get someone killed, and most likely it's going to be Ben (Siss, won't be happy) or worse yet another member of our O-line. I believe we have a lot of talent on our offense that doesn't get used properly because Bruce doesn't know how to call a game, especially in key moments.

Granted, he can only call the plays and the players have to perform, but when the defense knows it's a screen pass or bubble pass they can tee up on the WRs/RBs and ignore any chance of a deep throw.

official FIRE ARIANS thread 1689750825 so I'll say it and I'll say it LOUDLY official FIRE ARIANS thread 512807920 FIRE BRUCE ARIANS NOW!

official FIRE ARIANS thread 2472430564 :flamethrower: official FIRE ARIANS thread 2472506995 official FIRE ARIANS thread 988242114


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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 1:35 pm

And don't even get me started on the whole No-Huddle BS! official FIRE ARIANS thread 2625562446 official FIRE ARIANS thread 2306309830 official FIRE ARIANS thread 124247948 official FIRE ARIANS thread 3514758605

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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 1:37 pm

:flamethrower: DO IT!!!!!

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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 1:38 pm

oh lord not here too
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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 1:54 pm

supytalpeht wrote:
oh lord not here too


Sorry, Supy. You're not gonna find any BA fans here either. I've seen enough of his stagnant play-calling and unwillingness to adjust to want to see a change. I honestly don't think he would have been resigned this past season if not for the labor uncertainty and threat of a prolonged lockout (just a hunch). I think the Steelers just wanted continuity to be able to overcome the lack of a full training camp.

I'd like to see a change next year in OC and some new guys brought in to help fix the o-line. We need a new philosophy and a guy willing to change his game plan to adjust to what defenses are throwing at him. BA is not that guy.

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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 1:56 pm

supytalpeht wrote:
oh lord not here too

I promise to do my best to leave it all here in this thread and not all over the board official FIRE ARIANS thread 344726530

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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 2:29 pm

Buddha Bus wrote:
supytalpeht wrote:
oh lord not here too


Sorry, Supy. You're not gonna find any BA fans here either. I've seen enough of his stagnant play-calling and unwillingness to adjust to want to see a change. I honestly don't think he would have been resigned this past season if not for the labor uncertainty and threat of a prolonged lockout (just a hunch). I think the Steelers just wanted continuity to be able to overcome the lack of a full training camp.

I'd like to see a change next year in OC and some new guys brought in to help fix the o-line. We need a new philosophy and a guy willing to change his game plan to adjust to what defenses are throwing at him. BA is not that guy.

I'm not looking for people to slob his knob by any means, but a little objectivity would go a long way in my book. The whole he doesn't make any adjustments thing baffles me. Take the SB for example. We struggled early, and then adjusted the blocking schemes a bit and ran it very effectively which got us back in the game. I'm sure we all remember what happened next, but the point is the OC made adjustments and got us back in that game. OF course all the majority of Steeler Nation remembers or thinks they saw was GB wiping the field with our defense and Arians being an idiot that couldn't tie his shoes with a diagram. They conveniently forget 3 turnovers for 21 points and a missed field goal.
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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 2:51 pm

supytalpeht wrote:
Buddha Bus wrote:
supytalpeht wrote:
oh lord not here too


Sorry, Supy. You're not gonna find any BA fans here either. I've seen enough of his stagnant play-calling and unwillingness to adjust to want to see a change. I honestly don't think he would have been resigned this past season if not for the labor uncertainty and threat of a prolonged lockout (just a hunch). I think the Steelers just wanted continuity to be able to overcome the lack of a full training camp.

I'd like to see a change next year in OC and some new guys brought in to help fix the o-line. We need a new philosophy and a guy willing to change his game plan to adjust to what defenses are throwing at him. BA is not that guy.

I'm not looking for people to slob his knob by any means, but a little objectivity would go a long way in my book. The whole he doesn't make any adjustments thing baffles me. Take the SB for example. We struggled early, and then adjusted the blocking schemes a bit and ran it very effectively which got us back in the game. I'm sure we all remember what happened next, but the point is the OC made adjustments and got us back in that game. OF course all the majority of Steeler Nation remembers or thinks they saw was GB wiping the field with our defense and Arians being an idiot that couldn't tie his shoes with a diagram. They conveniently forget 3 turnovers for 21 points and a missed field goal.

Don't worry Sup, I certainly have not forgotten that our defense could not do anything to help our offense out in the SB. I also don't forget the turnovers or various other anamolies associated with that game. But from what I've seen of Arians since he's been here is consistent crap, and despite his best efforts the Steelers still pulled out the W's. I've tired of his offense and the fact that he continues to try and run as if he's got the most talented individuals in the NFL.

I don't expect them to be perfect every game (just as with the defense), but I do expect that he'll mix things up. I think it's sad when fans can begin predicting offensive plays. Just sayin'.

And I believe I am objective with the offense. I mean it doesn't matter if he draws up the perfect play if the players don't execute it properly it'll still fail. However, I've come to realize two things...rarely does he ever have a perfect play and hardly ever does he utilize the talent he has on the field to their maximum potential.

In my best Popeye voice, "I've taken all I's can stand and I's can't stand no more!"

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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 2:52 pm

We go run, run, pass- people aren't happy
We open up the play book and pass all over the place- people aren't happy.

It's just sad that it's all the play callings fault. If you called a run play 12 times in a row and every player did their job and blocked and it gained 10 yards every play, would you complain?

If Ben threw for 500 yards last night and didn't get sacked (by two of the best pass rushers), would you have complained?

We run some serious gadget plays, ones you don't see other teams run against us.

Get off the soap box, it's not the play calling. Ben can audible if he wants to. Every play has the capability to score if each player does their job.

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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 2:57 pm

BGSU A Dub wrote:
We go run, run, pass- people aren't happy
We open up the play book and pass all over the place- people aren't happy.

It's just sad that it's all the play callings fault. If you called a run play 12 times in a row and every player did their job and blocked and it gained 10 yards every play, would you complain?

If Ben threw for 500 yards last night and didn't get sacked (by two of the best pass rushers), would you have complained?

We run some serious gadget plays, ones you don't see other teams run against us.

Get off the soap box, it's not the play calling. Ben can audible if he wants to. Every play has the capability to score if each player does their job.

I've admitted as much that it's not just the play calling, but I still hole the OC to task. I don't think BA is the right guy for this team, and I feel like I've been off my soapbox long enough.

And it's not ust the typical run-run-pass-punt or the opening of the playbook. It's a chess match for 60 minutes, and IMO, BA makes the same moves game in and game out with minimal changes. If I can predict those things, I'm certain a defensive coordinator can do the same, allowing for the defense to play more aggressively and attack. Not calling plays that utilize the talents on the field limits our offense. Which was pretty visible last night.

IMO, he needs to go.

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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 3:01 pm

BGSU A Dub wrote:


Get off the soap box, it's not the play calling. Ben can audible if he wants to. Every play has the capability to score if each player does their job.


People love to blast Belichek for being a cheat blah blah, but what they don't give him credit for is getting 11 guys to do their job on every down. I hate the Pats as much as the next Steeler fan, but what that man does with a team is almost perfection. The Pats execute consistently and the Steelers don't.
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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 3:12 pm

supytalpeht wrote:
BGSU A Dub wrote:


Get off the soap box, it's not the play calling. Ben can audible if he wants to. Every play has the capability to score if each player does their job.


People love to blast Belichek for being a cheat blah blah, but what they don't give him credit for is getting 11 guys to do their job on every down. I hate the Pats as much as the next Steeler fan, but what that man does with a team is almost perfection. The Pats execute consistently and the Steelers don't.

As much as I hate him (even before I knew he was cheating), I've given him his props for make changes throughout his game that gives the patriots* the best opportunity to win. One of his biggest changes that I recognize is usually when he can't control the defensive blitz he'll got a 3 wide out set, using TE's to help block the LB's. Where as I rarely see Arians make those type of adjustments on a consistent basis.

Again, I blame the players when they don't execute just like the next guy.

I just feel that BA isn't the right OC for the Steelers. I didn't think he was a few years ago when we beat the cards, and I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary that would make me change my mind.

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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 3:20 pm

One of the problems I have with Arians is that I've seen him call good, balanced games, so I know he can do it ... but he just doesn't do it consistently. More times than not, you're left scratching your head over the play calling. Things like going to an empty backfield on short yardage plays, no play-action plays, no passes to the RBs out of the backfield, running up the middle every time instead of tossing it outside more ... it's all frustrating.

Then you have Arians' own comments that work against him.
Last season he said they don't prepare for 4-3 defenses. Are you kidding me????
And he said he won't adjust his game plan based on who he has playing. He made that comment in response to injuries on the O-Line last year. And that's why, despite having a weak O-line, the majority of the plays we run are designed to go downfield. He won't change his game plan to accommodate for a weak line. We can blame the O-line all we want, and yea, it does suck, but Arians needs to put his players in a position to succeed. More times than not, he puts them in a position to fail.

If it wasn't for Ben's ability to escape pressure and make plays, we'd probably be a 6-10 team over the last 3 years.

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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 3:23 pm

supytalpeht wrote:
BGSU A Dub wrote:


Get off the soap box, it's not the play calling. Ben can audible if he wants to. Every play has the capability to score if each player does their job.


People love to blast Belichek for being a cheat blah blah, but what they don't give him credit for is getting 11 guys to do their job on every down. I hate the Pats as much as the next Steeler fan, but what that man does with a team is almost perfection. The Pats execute consistently and the Steelers don't.
The Patriots throw more against the Steelers than they do against any other team in the league. They adjust to the team they're playing. Arians, on the other hand, doesn't game plan for specific teams. He has his game plan, and it doesn't matter who we're facing.

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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 3:25 pm

I'm not going to argue this point with y'all cos I have a feeling that everyone's way is set. I think BA does a fine job of calling plays, there are 22 other factors that come into play. He calls plays to give Wallace his shots down field, the screen last night could have been big if the recievers actually blocked, and he came out throwing, which, who saw that coming?

There are only so many options in running an offense and the gadget plays are a nice mix up. You can say you predict the plays correctly, but that doesn't mean EVERYONE predicts them correctly.

Again, you can know if it's a run and where it's going- but it won't matter if everyone does their job.

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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 3:48 pm

BGSU A Dub wrote:
I'm not going to argue this point with y'all cos I have a feeling that everyone's way is set. I think BA does a fine job of calling plays, there are 22 other factors that come into play. He calls plays to give Wallace his shots down field, the screen last night could have been big if the recievers actually blocked, and he came out throwing, which, who saw that coming?

There are only so many options in running an offense and the gadget plays are a nice mix up. You can say you predict the plays correctly, but that doesn't mean EVERYONE predicts them correctly.

Again, you can know if it's a run and where it's going- but it won't matter if everyone does their job.

You are correct that my ways are set, but it doesn't mean we can't discuss intelligently and openly without flaming one another (as I've seen on other forums). Because sometimes people have a view that I haven't seen. It tests my own opinions against themselves to see if what I believe is still true.

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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 5:01 pm

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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 5:28 pm

Wallace108 wrote:
One of the problems I have with Arians is that I've seen him call good, balanced games, so I know he can do it ... but he just doesn't do it consistently. More times than not, you're left scratching your head over the play calling. Things like going to an empty backfield on short yardage plays, no play-action plays, no passes to the RBs out of the backfield, running up the middle every time instead of tossing it outside more ... it's all frustrating.

Then you have Arians' own comments that work against him.
Last season he said they don't prepare for 4-3 defenses. Are you kidding me????
And he said he won't adjust his game plan based on who he has playing. He made that comment in response to injuries on the O-Line last year. And that's why, despite having a weak O-line, the majority of the plays we run are designed to go downfield. He won't change his game plan to accommodate for a weak line. We can blame the O-line all we want, and yea, it does suck, but Arians needs to put his players in a position to succeed. More times than not, he puts them in a position to fail.

If it wasn't for Ben's ability to escape pressure and make plays, we'd probably be a 6-10 team over the last 3 years.

But you're making the assumption that it's BA's play calling and not an execution thing. I'm not a huge fan by any means and there are times when I'm truly puzzled by a call. However, when the team actually executes and we get rolling you start too see how he sets things up. Look back at the SB and the 2 point conversion play, that was a beautiful call and it worked because the team had been executing. Unfortunately all too often we have a hold here, a missed block there, a late hit by kemo, or Ben starts holding onto the ball for a month of Sundays and suddenly we're going backwards and then the masses start blaming Arians. Last night we had two bubble screens where Miller completely whiffed on his blocking assignment. Of course nobody says shit about Miller whiffing, it's all Arians' stupid play calling.
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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 5:36 pm

supytalpeht wrote:
Wallace108 wrote:
One of the problems I have with Arians is that I've seen him call good, balanced games, so I know he can do it ... but he just doesn't do it consistently. More times than not, you're left scratching your head over the play calling. Things like going to an empty backfield on short yardage plays, no play-action plays, no passes to the RBs out of the backfield, running up the middle every time instead of tossing it outside more ... it's all frustrating.

Then you have Arians' own comments that work against him.
Last season he said they don't prepare for 4-3 defenses. Are you kidding me????
And he said he won't adjust his game plan based on who he has playing. He made that comment in response to injuries on the O-Line last year. And that's why, despite having a weak O-line, the majority of the plays we run are designed to go downfield. He won't change his game plan to accommodate for a weak line. We can blame the O-line all we want, and yea, it does suck, but Arians needs to put his players in a position to succeed. More times than not, he puts them in a position to fail.

If it wasn't for Ben's ability to escape pressure and make plays, we'd probably be a 6-10 team over the last 3 years.

But you're making the assumption that it's BA's play calling and not an execution thing. I'm not a huge fan by any means and there are times when I'm truly puzzled by a call. However, when the team actually executes and we get rolling you start too see how he sets things up. Look back at the SB and the 2 point conversion play, that was a beautiful call and it worked because the team had been executing. Unfortunately all too often we have a hold here, a missed block there, a late hit by kemo, or Ben starts holding onto the ball for a month of Sundays and suddenly we're going backwards and then the masses start blaming Arians. Last night we had two bubble screens where Miller completely whiffed on his blocking assignment. Of course nobody says shit about Miller whiffing, it's all Arians' stupid play calling.


I don't think anyone's saying it's ALL Arians, but he sure isn't helping things calling slow-developing plays behind a depleted O-line. The bubble screen thing isn't just that Miller whiffed on some blocks. It pretty much never works. We rarely see that play go for more than 2 yards. Why keep calling it if the personnel keeps hammering the play up? If they can't execute the play successfully at least 50% of the time, why continue calling it so much?

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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 5:39 pm

I agree with supy.

The OC doesn't know what coverage the defense is going to run and that's where the audible needs to come in. It's not college football where the team looks to the sideline. While offense is a game of chess, it also is very much about execution and recognizing blitzes and coverage. BA doesn't tell each player who to block before the snap. Like I said before, there are 22 elements of each play that BA doesn't control, much like there are 21 elements that Ben can't control.

I applaud BA for having the guys to call the gaget plays and drawing up plays that work. Just watch, that end around to Wallace is gonna be a beast of a play at some point this year.

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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 5:41 pm

The wide reciever screen is one of the best plays in football. You are getting the ball to a speedy reciever who basically has 2 men to beat (if the blocking does it's job). If Heath and Hines were blocking for Wallace down the field, good God, it'd be a TD every time.

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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 5:58 pm

BGSU A Dub wrote:
The wide reciever screen is one of the best plays in football. You are getting the ball to a speedy reciever who basically has 2 men to beat (if the blocking does it's job). If Heath and Hines were blocking for Wallace down the field, good God, it'd be a TD every time.

That's the point... if the blocking does it's job. They have yet to show that they can get the job done and get the necessary blocks off to make this play successful. If your personnel aren't showing that they can execute it effectively, why continue to go to the well as often as they do? We see that play at least 2-3 times a game with little to no success.


What's the definition of insanity again?

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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyMon Sep 26, 2011 6:13 pm

Buddha Bus wrote:
supytalpeht wrote:
Wallace108 wrote:
One of the problems I have with Arians is that I've seen him call good, balanced games, so I know he can do it ... but he just doesn't do it consistently. More times than not, you're left scratching your head over the play calling. Things like going to an empty backfield on short yardage plays, no play-action plays, no passes to the RBs out of the backfield, running up the middle every time instead of tossing it outside more ... it's all frustrating.

Then you have Arians' own comments that work against him.
Last season he said they don't prepare for 4-3 defenses. Are you kidding me????
And he said he won't adjust his game plan based on who he has playing. He made that comment in response to injuries on the O-Line last year. And that's why, despite having a weak O-line, the majority of the plays we run are designed to go downfield. He won't change his game plan to accommodate for a weak line. We can blame the O-line all we want, and yea, it does suck, but Arians needs to put his players in a position to succeed. More times than not, he puts them in a position to fail.

If it wasn't for Ben's ability to escape pressure and make plays, we'd probably be a 6-10 team over the last 3 years.

But you're making the assumption that it's BA's play calling and not an execution thing. I'm not a huge fan by any means and there are times when I'm truly puzzled by a call. However, when the team actually executes and we get rolling you start too see how he sets things up. Look back at the SB and the 2 point conversion play, that was a beautiful call and it worked because the team had been executing. Unfortunately all too often we have a hold here, a missed block there, a late hit by kemo, or Ben starts holding onto the ball for a month of Sundays and suddenly we're going backwards and then the masses start blaming Arians. Last night we had two bubble screens where Miller completely whiffed on his blocking assignment. Of course nobody says shit about Miller whiffing, it's all Arians' stupid play calling.


I don't think anyone's saying it's ALL Arians, but he sure isn't helping things calling slow-developing plays behind a depleted O-line. The bubble screen thing isn't just that Miller whiffed on some blocks. It pretty much never works. We rarely see that play go for more than 2 yards. Why keep calling it if the personnel keeps hammering the play up? If they can't execute the play successfully at least 50% of the time, why continue calling it so much?


But, part of football is setting up a defense for later. Line up and throw a bubble screen a few times and the DB's start creeping up when they see the same formation again. And when they do you've got them. All of the sudden that bubble screen has turned into Wallace running a quick slant or a down and out pattern and it's good for 6. But, if players don't execute their blocks, run their routes, get rid of the freaking ball then it all comes crashing down.

One of things that baffles me about this team is the collective brain farts they seem to have in every game. We're rolling along nicely, the line isn't great but they're holding blocks, Ben's getting rid of the ball blah blah blah and then all of the sudden it's as if they all rode the short bus to school. Holding, personal foul, wrong route, missed the hot read wash rinse and repeat I just don't get it.
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stlrtruck

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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyTue Sep 27, 2011 9:10 am

supytalpeht wrote:
Wallace108 wrote:
One of the problems I have with Arians is that I've seen him call good, balanced games, so I know he can do it ... but he just doesn't do it consistently. More times than not, you're left scratching your head over the play calling. Things like going to an empty backfield on short yardage plays, no play-action plays, no passes to the RBs out of the backfield, running up the middle every time instead of tossing it outside more ... it's all frustrating.

Then you have Arians' own comments that work against him.
Last season he said they don't prepare for 4-3 defenses. Are you kidding me????
And he said he won't adjust his game plan based on who he has playing. He made that comment in response to injuries on the O-Line last year. And that's why, despite having a weak O-line, the majority of the plays we run are designed to go downfield. He won't change his game plan to accommodate for a weak line. We can blame the O-line all we want, and yea, it does suck, but Arians needs to put his players in a position to succeed. More times than not, he puts them in a position to fail.

If it wasn't for Ben's ability to escape pressure and make plays, we'd probably be a 6-10 team over the last 3 years.

But you're making the assumption that it's BA's play calling and not an execution thing. I'm not a huge fan by any means and there are times when I'm truly puzzled by a call. However, when the team actually executes and we get rolling you start too see how he sets things up. Look back at the SB and the 2 point conversion play, that was a beautiful call and it worked because the team had been executing. Unfortunately all too often we have a hold here, a missed block there, a late hit by kemo, or Ben starts holding onto the ball for a month of Sundays and suddenly we're going backwards and then the masses start blaming Arians. Last night we had two bubble screens where Miller completely whiffed on his blocking assignment. Of course nobody says shit about Miller whiffing, it's all Arians' stupid play calling.

Just for the record, although I haven't posted it as much on this forum, but in my conversations with other Steelers fans I was all over Miller and his half-hearted attempts at blocking Sunday night.

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Wallace108

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PostSubject: Re: official FIRE ARIANS thread   official FIRE ARIANS thread EmptyTue Sep 27, 2011 10:40 am

I think everyone on both sides of the debate is making good points. Is it the play calling, or is it the execution? This might be a "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" debate.

But one thing I stand firm on is Arians' unwillingness to incorporate a shorter passing game. We can't continue to blame only the O-line when they're asked to give maximum protection while deep routes develop. At some point, Arians is going to have to change his strategy.

If you have a slow QB who isn't very mobile, you can't be running a lot of option plays and bootlegs. That would just be stupid.

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