official FIRE ARIANS thread

Hey Truck did you like that FAKE screen they ran?

So, just curious... why didn't we run the exact same offense against the 9ers that we ran against the Cheats? You know, the kind that keeps our quarterback from getting hurt or throwing picks? Just curious.

Glad to see a "Fire Arians" sticky. It's not a Steelers forum without one.

BGSU A Dub wrote:

Hey Truck did you like that FAKE screen they ran?

As a matter of fact, I did. Because damn if I didn't call the screen and I was screaming NO! the moment I saw the lineup.

ricardisimo wrote:

So, just curious... why didn't we run the exact same offense against the 9ers that we ran against the Cheats? You know, the kind that keeps our quarterback from getting hurt or throwing picks? Just curious.

Glad to see a "Fire Arians" sticky. It's not a Steelers forum without one.

We aim to please around here!

I stumbled across this old article the other day. I remember reading it when it first came out, but I'm amazed that Parker was saying this stuff all the way back in 2008, and it's three years later and we're still complaining about the same stuff ...

Quote :

RB Parker targets Steelers' philosophy

By Scott Brown, TRIBUNE-REVIEW

The Steelers have struggled to run the ball on a consistent basis this season.

Willie Parker said Wednesday that the Steelers may need to take a different approach to establishing the run and added that he would welcome an increased role for the fullback in the offense.

"We bring in two tight ends now, without a fullback, and (opposing defenses) know where it's going," Parker said of the Steelers' running game. "I just know when we get in two (tight end sets), it's not very successful. They definitely know where it's going."

The Steelers, who are 23rd in the NFL in rushing (103.6 yards per game), primarily run the ball out of a two-tight end formation.

That represents a significant shift in philosophy and is one that started in 2007, Bruce Arians' first season as offensive coordinator, when Carey Davis beat out Dan Kreider for the starting job at fullback.

Kreider, who is no longer with the team, is a traditional fullback who had been a key to the power running game with which the Steelers have long been associated. The 5-foot-10, 225-pound Davis is still listed first on the Steelers' depth chart at fullback but has played sparingly in that role this season.

"I definitely love running with a fullback," Parker. "We've got a fullback, but we don't play him that much. We can change, but that's not my call. I'm just a running back. You call a play and I'm going to show up."

Parker has rushed for a team-high 597 yards this season but has been hampered by knee and shoulder problems. The two-time Pro Bowler has missed five games because of injuries.

Parker's 3.9 yards per carry is a career low, and the Steelers' 3.6 yards per carry ranks 29th in the NFL. Parker has struggled against this week's opponent, the Baltimore Ravens, rushing for 215 yards and averaging just 2.8 yards per carry in the five games he has played against the Ravens dating back to 2005.

Parker has not been a factor in the passing game. He has just one catch for 4 yards.

"We kind of got away from the screen game this year and it's due to a lot of circumstances, a lot of reasons," Parker said.

When asked why the Steelers have gotten away from throwing screen passes, Parker said, "You've got to ask the offensive coordinator that."

Parker and wide receiver Hines Ward said the Steelers have to try to run the ball Sunday in Baltimore even though the Ravens are second in the NFL in rushing defense (77 yards per game).

Coach Mike Tomlin said earlier this week that an effective running game will be a key if the Steelers want to finish the season strong.

"Down the stretch, you have to be able to run the football in December," Tomlin said. "Good people close out football games, so we have to continue to work on it."

Read more: RB Parker targets Steelers' philosophy - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_602428.html#ixzz1hi7hjR1r

I love Tomlin's quote: "Good people close out football games, so we have to continue to work on it."
That's a drum I've been beating all season ... our offense's inability to close out games. It was a problem in 2008, as Tomlin acknowledged, and it's still a problem.

That;s great except for the fact that we run and pass out of spread, two tight end, 3 tight end, modified wishbone, and I formations along with a few others. Clearly lining up with a full back wouldn't be predictable at all.

supytalpeht wrote:

That;s great except for the fact that we run and pass out of spread, two tight end, 3 tight end, modified wishbone, and I formations along with a few others. Clearly lining up with a full back wouldn't be predictable at all.

I'll take FWP's word for it in relation to the offense being predictable in 2008. As for being predictable now, let's count how many times they run left on Sunday compared to how many times they run right. You'd think that where you run would be determined by the strength of your O-line and the defensive weakness of your opponent. But it seems it doesn't matter who's playing on the O-line that day or who we're facing ... we're running the ball to the right side. So we don't use a fullback and we run predominantly to the right side ... then Arians blames the backs for not running effectively.

Maybe if they ever get left guard solidified they'll start running that way more. Weren't you one of the people complaining that Arians didn't call plays to the offenses strengths? Up until the return of Starks LT was a total clusterfuck and even after his return left guard has been a major issue as well.

Let's not forget that WP was an average at best back on team whose offensive line was just plain awful. We were particularly bad on the interior of that line starting with the center aka the foundation.

Couple of other things to remember about Bruce Arians:

1. He was a coach for the Cleveland Browns. Who on earth would ever hire anybody associated with the Cleveland Browns??
I've been impressed with the Steelers overall personnel decisions since about 1968, but before that, they were going counter-clockwise to the great teams of old like the Browns, Bears, Lions, Colts, etc...
It sort of scares me that they not only HIRED him, they've kept him. Tomlin is no Chuck Noll, not even Bill Cowher. I hope we are not sliding slowly backward to the 1950s because of Tomlin's reluctance to flex his muscle. Remember, he was determined to change the defense to a 4-3, then didn't. He seems oblivious to the offensive game plan. He lets Ben play because Ben wants to. WTF?!

2. When has anybody ever heard of BA being in the running for a head coaching job?? Kinda makes you wonder doesn't it?

Quote :

1. He was a coach for the Cleveland Browns. Who on earth would ever hire anybody associated with the Cleveland Browns??

When was the last time the Browns made the playoffs? Oh yeah, it was when an Arians offense put up 30+ points against the Steelers with a backup QB.

Quote :

2. When has anybody ever heard of BA being in the running for a head coaching job?? Kinda makes you wonder doesn't it?

The fact that we haven't heard about it doesn't mean it didn't or doesn't happen. For all we know his agent gets a phone call and the response is sorry he's not interested.


The biggest tell for me that Arians doesn't deserve all of the criticism is very simple and is largely ignored by the fan base. The people that make decisions and know far more about football than all of us combined keep bringing him back. So either Rooney, Colbert, Khan, Tomlin et al are all clueless and survive purely by a wing and prayer or the people screaming for his head don't know quite as much about football as they think. That isn't too say that I'm some football guru by any stretch of the imagination. I purely believe that the people in charge know far more then WE do about the game, including minutiae like was there an audible, primary receivers, were the routes run correctly, hot reads ...

FIRE HIM! :mob: FIRE HIM! :mob:

supytalpeht wrote:

Maybe if they ever get left guard solidified they'll start running that way more. Weren't you one of the people complaining that Arians didn't call plays to the offenses strengths? Up until the return of Starks LT was a total clusterfuck and even after his return left guard has been a major issue as well.

I agree about the left side of the line. But what about the right side? Gilbert was doing such a bang up job that they felt the need to replace him last week with Jonathan "Turnstile" Scott.

This season, we've been passing 60 percent of the time. Against the Rams, we ran nearly 60 percent of the time and utilized a lot of short routes. Old, immobile Batch didn't get sacked one time. Yeah, I know we played the Rams and that they suck, but we've seen our line crap the bed against bad teams. Against the Rams, we had a line consisting of Scott, Kemo, and Essex at center. That was quite arguably the worst line we've put out on the field this season. Yet they did rather well. How much of that can we attribute to Arians' play calling and putting them in the best position to succeed?

Wallace108 wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

Maybe if they ever get left guard solidified they'll start running that way more. Weren't you one of the people complaining that Arians didn't call plays to the offenses strengths? Up until the return of Starks LT was a total clusterfuck and even after his return left guard has been a major issue as well.

I agree about the left side of the line. But what about the right side? Gilbert was doing such a bang up job that they felt the need to replace him last week with Jonathan "Turnstile" Scott.

I'm sure by now you've read why Gilbert was benched against the Rams.

Quote :

This season, we've been passing 60 percent of the time. Against the Rams, we ran nearly 60 percent of the time and utilized a lot of short routes. Old, immobile Batch didn't get sacked one time. Yeah, I know we played the Rams and that they suck, but we've seen our line crap the bed against bad teams. Against the Rams, we had a line consisting of Scott, Kemo, and Essex at center. That was quite arguably the worst line we've put out on the field this season. Yet they did rather well. How much of that can we attribute to Arians' play calling and putting them in the best position to succeed?

Batch and Roethlisberger = Apples and Oranges.

They aren't even remotely the same player so it should be abundantly clear that the game plan reflects their skill set. And once again you have no idea how many plays Batch changed or how many Ben would have changed if he had been given the opportunity to play.

supytalpeht wrote:

I'm sure by now you've read why Gilbert was benched against the Rams.

Just that he was late for a meeting, and Tomlin called him unprofessional in his preparation. But regardless of whether Gilbert or Scott is playing, it's not like we have All Pros on the right side.

supytalpeht wrote:

Batch and Roethlisberger = Apples and Oranges.

They aren't even remotely the same player so it should be abundantly clear that the game plan reflects their skill set. And once again you have no idea how many plays Batch changed or how many Ben would have changed if he had been given the opportunity to play.

Is it part of the game plan to have Ben scrambling for his life every play so he can use his skill set of alluding sacks and making something out of nothing? Comparing Batch to Vick would be apples and oranges, but other than Ben's ability to shake off tackles, I don't think his and Batch's style of play is so different that it requires completely different game plans. Batch put up 27 against the Rams, but Ben could muster only 23 against the Colts, 17 against the Jags, and 13 against the Chiefs. If it's not Arians' fault, then it has to be Ben's fault. Maybe we should bench Ben in favor of Batch.

Quote :

Is it part of the game plan to have Ben scrambling for his life every play so he can use his skill set of alluding sacks and making something out of nothing? Comparing Batch to Vick would be apples and oranges, but other than Ben's ability to shake off tackles, I don't think his and Batch's style of play is so different that it requires completely different game plans. Batch put up 27 against the Rams, but Ben could muster only 23 against the Colts, 17 against the Jags, and 13 against the Chiefs. If it's not Arians' fault, then it has to be Ben's fault. Maybe we should bench Ben in favor of Batch.

To deny the fact that Ben brings a significant portion of the sacks etc on himself is doing nothing but being dishonest. Even Ben admits to it, but you want to blame Arians. You don't think their style is different? Ben stands back there and does pump fakes and Batch gets rid of the ball, I would say that's significantly different.
Against Indy Ben 1 int and 2 fumbles, but of course those are on Arians
Against Jacksonville Ben was 1-6 in the 2nd half, of course that's Arians fault as well
Against the CHiefs another int by Ben and a fumble in the endzone by Moore, but yet once again this is on Arians. Not too mention the outstanding play by the CHiefs defensive backfield all game long.

I don't hate Ben by any stretch of the imagination, but to ignore his shortcomings and bad habits and blame Arians is lazy and disingenuous.

supytalpeht wrote:

Quote :

Is it part of the game plan to have Ben scrambling for his life every play so he can use his skill set of alluding sacks and making something out of nothing? Comparing Batch to Vick would be apples and oranges, but other than Ben's ability to shake off tackles, I don't think his and Batch's style of play is so different that it requires completely different game plans. Batch put up 27 against the Rams, but Ben could muster only 23 against the Colts, 17 against the Jags, and 13 against the Chiefs. If it's not Arians' fault, then it has to be Ben's fault. Maybe we should bench Ben in favor of Batch.

To deny the fact that Ben brings a significant portion of the sacks etc on himself is doing nothing but being dishonest. Even Ben admits to it, but you want to blame Arians. You don't think their style is different? Ben stands back there and does pump fakes and Batch gets rid of the ball, I would say that's significantly different.
Against Indy Ben 1 int and 2 fumbles, but of course those are on Arians
Against Jacksonville Ben was 1-6 in the 2nd half, of course that's Arians fault as well
Against the CHiefs another int by Ben and a fumble in the endzone by Moore, but yet once again this is on Arians. Not too mention the outstanding play by the CHiefs defensive backfield all game long.

I don't hate Ben by any stretch of the imagination, but to ignore his shortcomings and bad habits and blame Arians is lazy and disingenuous.

As has been pointed out in other threads, I don't ignore Ben's bad habits. I've never disagreed with anything you've said in regard to Ben.

If I'm in a store and see a kid running around knocking things off shelves, I don't blame the kid ... I blame the parents for not controlling their kid. And I blame Arians for not controlling his quarterback. There's more to being an offensive coordinator than simply game planning and calling plays. The OC has to help the QB learn to make the right decisions. But Arians has always taken the approach of allowing Ben to be Ben. I think Ben (and the Steelers) might be better off with an OC who doesn't allow Ben to play however he wants, but instead forces him to play smarter football. And if Arians can't get Ben to make better decisions, then maybe he should change his game plan to focus more on running instead of passing. But whether it's Arians' fault or Ben's fault, ultimately it's Arians' fault.

Let me give you one more analogy. If I own a business and the employees aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing, I don't blame the employees ... I blame the manager for not making them do what they're supposed to be doing. You don't have to look any further than the 49ers to see how this works. Last season under Singletary, the 49ers couldn't get out of their own way. But in their first season with Harbaugh and a new staff, they're one of the top teams in the league. It's the same players from last season. So why are they executing more effectively this season?

If it wasn't for the diifference in the QB play by the 49ers I might agree with you. LAst year the qb's combined for 20+ ints and who knows how many fumbles, while this year Alex Smith has thrown 5. That alone is more than enough to go from 6-10 to 12-3 and doesn't have anything to do with the head coach. Additionally 4 of those losses were by 7 points or less.

I really couldn't disagree more with your small business owner analogy. That is assuming of course that the manager in question has done his job. If the manager has properly trained his employees and given them the requisite tools to perform their duties then the employee(s) will be the first to go.
Regarding Ben, I truly believe the worst thing that could have happened to him did during what should of been his development years. THat is he was handed the starting role (due to injury)far too early and wasn't given time to develop the proper tools and good habits. He plays well against average teams and occasionally plays well against good teams, but more often then not his bad habits come to the forefront against the good teams in the league.
I thought the SB loss last year was going to have a lasting effect on Ben. It appeared during preseason as though he had finally figured out that he wouldn't be able to win consistently against good teams by just winging it and at times that still holds true. However, it seems that in every game sooner or later he gets impatient and starts playing stupid football. Whether it's forcing the ball into coverage or trying to hold onto the ball while it's blatantly obvious that the defense is bringing everything including the kitchen sink. That "style" that he plays with while occasionally effective definitely comes back to bite him/us in the ass as well. The SB pick 6 and the high ankle sprain plays are glaring examples of that. During the SB it bit us in the ass immediately and against the Browns it has a long term affect. With regards to reigning Ben in look back a couple of weeks where he turned to the sideline and gave kind of a settle down towards the coaches. If you were a fly on the wall I all but guarantee he was getting an earful from the coaches.

supytalpeht wrote:

Regarding Ben, I truly believe the worst thing that could have happened to him did during what should of been his development years. THat is he was handed the starting role (due to injury)far too early and wasn't given time to develop the proper tools and good habits. He plays well against average teams and occasionally plays well against good teams, but more often then not his bad habits come to the forefront against the good teams in the league.
I thought the SB loss last year was going to have a lasting effect on Ben. It appeared during preseason as though he had finally figured out that he wouldn't be able to win consistently against good teams by just winging it and at times that still holds true. However, it seems that in every game sooner or later he gets impatient and starts playing stupid football. Whether it's forcing the ball into coverage or trying to hold onto the ball while it's blatantly obvious that the defense is bringing everything including the kitchen sink. That "style" that he plays with while occasionally effective definitely comes back to bite him/us in the ass as well. The SB pick 6 and the high ankle sprain plays are glaring examples of that. During the SB it bit us in the ass immediately and against the Browns it has a long term affect. With regards to reigning Ben in look back a couple of weeks where he turned to the sideline and gave kind of a settle down towards the coaches. If you were a fly on the wall I all but guarantee he was getting an earful from the coaches.

We have some common ground when it comes to Ben. I read your assessment, and I can't find a single thing I disagree with. I guess where we do disagree is with Arians' role in Ben's actions. I still maintain than if a QB is making the same mistakes over and over, it ultimately falls on the offensive coordinator to correct the problems. And an OC should develop an offense around his QB's strengths and weaknesses. I just don't see Arians doing that. I've said before that if Arians had a solid O-line and a QB who was quick at making decisions and didn't do all the stupid shit that Ben does, he'd have an unstoppable offense. But the problem is that Arians doesn't have a great O-line, and he doesn't have a QB who is great at reading and reacting, but he runs the offense as if he does.

Wallace108 wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

Regarding Ben, I truly believe the worst thing that could have happened to him did during what should of been his development years. THat is he was handed the starting role (due to injury)far too early and wasn't given time to develop the proper tools and good habits. He plays well against average teams and occasionally plays well against good teams, but more often then not his bad habits come to the forefront against the good teams in the league.
I thought the SB loss last year was going to have a lasting effect on Ben. It appeared during preseason as though he had finally figured out that he wouldn't be able to win consistently against good teams by just winging it and at times that still holds true. However, it seems that in every game sooner or later he gets impatient and starts playing stupid football. Whether it's forcing the ball into coverage or trying to hold onto the ball while it's blatantly obvious that the defense is bringing everything including the kitchen sink. That "style" that he plays with while occasionally effective definitely comes back to bite him/us in the ass as well. The SB pick 6 and the high ankle sprain plays are glaring examples of that. During the SB it bit us in the ass immediately and against the Browns it has a long term affect. With regards to reigning Ben in look back a couple of weeks where he turned to the sideline and gave kind of a settle down towards the coaches. If you were a fly on the wall I all but guarantee he was getting an earful from the coaches.

We have some common ground when it comes to Ben. I read your assessment, and I can't find a single thing I disagree with. I guess where we do disagree is with Arians' role in Ben's actions. I still maintain than if a QB is making the same mistakes over and over, it ultimately falls on the offensive coordinator to correct the problems. And an OC should develop an offense around his QB's strengths and weaknesses. I just don't see Arians doing that. I've said before that if Arians had a solid O-line and a QB who was quick at making decisions and didn't do all the stupid shit that Ben does, he'd have an unstoppable offense. But the problem is that Arians doesn't have a great O-line, and he doesn't have a QB who is great at reading and reacting, but he runs the offense as if he does.

Again there are two schools of thought when it comes to protecting the qb. One is to surround him with the best OL, lesser talent at the skill positions, and grind it out(Cowher era). The other other is to use a lesser OL and give the qb weapons to utilize. It seems clear to me that the Steelers have made a conscientious decision to draft weapons for their franchise qb to use(Mendy,Wallace,Brown,Sanders,Saunders...). It would be beyond stupid for the coaches to switch gears now and go to a conservative offense. First we don't have the o-line for it and 2nd we have the talent at the skill positions to open the offense up.

Ben gets sacked nearly 50 times a year and half of those are on him. I guarantee our offense would look significantly different if those 25 or so plays went for a positive or no gain instead of a loss. Essentially we live or die by #7's decision making. If he plays smart football,takes the check down receiver, doesn't force it, and throws it away occasionally we will win more often than not. If not we see offensive games similar to what we saw against the ravens, 49'ers etc. In general when he plays stupid football we win against bad teams and lose to good teams.

FIRE ARIANS!!! Yep, it's been my mantra for the last 3 years, since before our last SB victory. FIRE ARIANS!!!

While I understand that some of the game results falls squarely on the shoulders of one Mr. Benjamin Roethlisberger, the playcalling goes directly to one Mr. Bruce Arians. You are the coach, not the player's friend and you allowed a hobbled QB to make irresponsible throws downfield when over the last 3 weeks he has proven he's not accurate doing so on a bad ankle. On top of the fact that the Broncos were playing for Ben to throw the deep ball - and he bit - HARD! Take control of the offense, thus the reason your title is OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR!

Regardless of all that we still had a chance to win in regulation when you're idiotic play calling cost us the chance at a game winning FG.


So I echo my sentiments:

FIRE BRUCE ARIANS!!!!!!!!!!

During the second half, one of the announcers (I forget which one) said that every time a head-coaching job opens up, Arians' name is never mentioned, but it should be. I'd be willing to write a glowing letter of recommendation.

Wallace108 wrote:

During the second half, one of the announcers (I forget which one) said that every time a head-coaching job opens up, Arians' name is never mentioned, but it should be. I'd be willing to write a glowing letter of recommendation.

Miami, St. Louis, and Tampa Bay are still looking for head coaches

Wallace108 wrote:

During the second half, one of the announcers (I forget which one) said that every time a head-coaching job opens up, Arians' name is never mentioned, but it should be. I'd be willing to write a glowing letter of recommendation.

i heard them say that. first thing i thought of was how may steeler fans are laughing their asses off right now?

vasteeler wrote:

Wallace108 wrote:

During the second half, one of the announcers (I forget which one) said that every time a head-coaching job opens up, Arians' name is never mentioned, but it should be. I'd be willing to write a glowing letter of recommendation.

i heard them say that. first thing i thought of was how may steeler fans are laughing their asses off right now?

And I'm thinking how many Steelers fans were praying for it to actually happen.


That's it. That's why we lost. God heard the prayers of Steelers nation and He knew that if the Steelers continued through the playoffs that Arians would maintain his job. Therefore, Tebow and the broncos won the game so Arians would be more on the hot seat.








Yes people that whole 'God heard our prayers that's why we lost' comment was a joke!

Arians is on his 2nd "one year contract"... If we don't resign him he will "retire". Meaning he has no other options