I'm making a promise right now ...

I'm not good at much, but I'm good at keeping my word.

If the Steelers get to the Super Bowl this year ... they don't have to win, just get there ... I'll never say another bad word about Arians publicly as long as he's our OC.


So I might have to do some extra bitching now just in case.

So basically if they win 6-7 more games this year


You really put your neck on the line with that one.

Wallace108 wrote:

I'm not good at much, but I'm good at keeping my word.

If the Steelers get to the Super Bowl this year ... they don't have to win, just get there ... I'll never say another bad word about Arians publicly as long as he's our OC.


So I might have to do some extra bitching now just in case.

No sir, you're on this boat by yourself. If we get to the SB, I say it's in spite of BA, and I'll continue to speak ill about him. It reminds me of the Bucs back when Dungy was coach. Great defense, but for some reason their offensive coordinator couldn't put together a complete package. Moments of brilliance, but overall the offense sputtered along and more times than not, the defense helped out the offense.

supytalpeht wrote:

So basically if they win 6-7 more games this year


You really put your neck on the line with that one.

Are you suggesting it's impossible for us to get to the Super Bowl this year? I think it's quite possible. And if they do, you don't understand how hard it will be for me not to bitch about Arians. I don't just dislike him as an OC ... I dislike him as a person. He's arrogant and never takes responsibility for any of his team's failures. I remember after the Steelers beat the Browns in the playoffs, he threw Butch Davis and the DC under the bus. He publicly blamed them for the loss. I couldn't imagine LeBeau or Tomlin ever throwing another coach under the bus like that. And even now, he blames our running backs for our subpar running game. He said they'd run more if the running backs would run better. I guess it has nothing to do with his schemes or lack of a fullback. Even if he's right, he shouldn't publicly blame the running backs. I just really dislike the man on every level. And if we get to the Super Bowl and he ends up being our OC for several more years, it's going to be a struggle for me not to criticize him.

stlrtruck wrote:

No sir, you're on this boat by yourself. If we get to the SB, I say it's in spite of BA, and I'll continue to speak ill about him. It reminds me of the Bucs back when Dungy was coach. Great defense, but for some reason their offensive coordinator couldn't put together a complete package. Moments of brilliance, but overall the offense sputtered along and more times than not, the defense helped out the offense.

I don't care if we get a safety in the championship game and win 2-0. That would be 3 Super Bowl appearances with Arians as OC. That would be good enough for me. I don't care if we win in spite of him ... just as long as we win.

Wallace108 wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

So basically if they win 6-7 more games this year


You really put your neck on the line with that one.

Are you suggesting it's impossible for us to get to the Super Bowl this year? I think it's quite possible. And if they do, you don't understand how hard it will be for me not to bitch about Arians. I don't just dislike him as an OC ... I dislike him as a person. He's arrogant and never takes responsibility for any of his team's failures. I remember after the Steelers beat the Browns in the playoffs, he threw Butch Davis and the DC under the bus. He publicly blamed them for the loss. I couldn't imagine LeBeau or Tomlin ever throwing another coach under the bus like that. And even now, he blames our running backs for our subpar running game. He said they'd run more if the running backs would run better. I guess it has nothing to do with his schemes or lack of a fullback. Even if he's right, he shouldn't publicly blame the running backs. I just really dislike the man on every level. And if we get to the Super Bowl and he ends up being our OC for several more years, it's going to be a struggle for me not to criticize him.

From everything I've read Davis essentially took over for the DC at halftime when up to that point the DC's scheme was completely kicking our ass. Davis was a shitty coach and Arians called a spade a spade, big deal. If Tomlin were to pull that bullshit then I hope every single coach on the team would have the cajones to stand up and say something. Go to a prevent defense at half time what the fuck was he thinking. People bitch about this pc world, but when someone doesn't do the pc thing you get your panties all in a wad.
And look what happened when he "called out" the running backs, mendy ran harder and with more authority then we've seen all year. You say it's calling him out, but it looks to me as if he issued a challenge and the players responded. Football isn't a warm and fuzzy sport where they all sit around sing kumbayah. These guys are grown men and if calling them out is what it takes for them to perform then by god piss them off. They're getting paid millions of dollars to play a game they can afford a shrink when they retire.

You people bitch about him being predictable, but give him no credit for breaking out new formations every week with new plays and new plays in old formations. He routinely keeps 4 wr's, 3 te's, and 3 rb's in the game plan and puts them in position to make plays. He Repeatedly comes up with new game plans each week tailored to what we're facing. You look at the Titans game and say "see we should play like this every week", but fail to acknowledge what the Titans defense attempted to do and how that affected the game plan. In that game the Titans played defense to take away the deeper patterns and we ate them alive underneath. THe next week the Jags did the exact opposite and stacked 8,9,10 men in the box for the whole game to take away the underneath stuff and the game plan reflected that. Of course the fire arians crowd sit's there refuses to pay attention to what's happening on the field(10 men in the box) and simply cries about how he goes against what was working. I guess to ya'll it makes more sense to force the ball into tight coverage and risk throwing ints or running into 10 man fronts. Then follow that up with the game plan against NE who's fairly stout against the run,but weak against the pass and we exploited the hell out of them with the pass. And if I might add he did so using a TE which is something the haters claim he's not capable of doing. I guess in the Fire Arians crowd world it would make more sense to run runr run instead of exploiting a weakness. Of course exploiting a weakness is yet one more thing he supposedly can't do. And since you seem to have forgotten if it wasn't for Ben's rookie fucking mistake of throwing to a wide open middle linebacker the Patriots would have managed all of 3 points in the half. Then we turn around with yet another game plan against the Ravens which was working fairly well(which is no easy task) up until Ben did his best short bus rider impersonation. In case you forgot it was yet another stupid play by our freaking hero #7 that cost us that game. There's a turning point in every game and Ben's 10 point swing int to Suggs was it. IF you look at the Chiefs game you blame Arians but ignore 10 offensive penalties, 2 turnovers, at least 6 dropped passes, and a truly impressive man coverage job by the Chiefs. . Ya'll blame Arians for plays that take too long to develop but don't even know what the play call was to begin with. Meanwhile ya'll are sitting there on the couch screaming for Arians head while ignoring Ben standing back there doing pump fakes. All the while missing the connection between blitzing linebackers,pump fakes, and sacks.


And to top it off we've started the same 5 players on the offensive line twice and we're still 9-3.

But, you're right Arians sucks.


















I swear some of you are as stubborn as the old man from the Walking Dead. It isn't until someone unloads 10 rounds into the chest of a zombie at point blank range that he suddenly realizes that they aren't people anymore.

supytalpeht wrote:

Wallace108 wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

So basically if they win 6-7 more games this year


You really put your neck on the line with that one.

Are you suggesting it's impossible for us to get to the Super Bowl this year? I think it's quite possible. And if they do, you don't understand how hard it will be for me not to bitch about Arians. I don't just dislike him as an OC ... I dislike him as a person. He's arrogant and never takes responsibility for any of his team's failures. I remember after the Steelers beat the Browns in the playoffs, he threw Butch Davis and the DC under the bus. He publicly blamed them for the loss. I couldn't imagine LeBeau or Tomlin ever throwing another coach under the bus like that. And even now, he blames our running backs for our subpar running game. He said they'd run more if the running backs would run better. I guess it has nothing to do with his schemes or lack of a fullback. Even if he's right, he shouldn't publicly blame the running backs. I just really dislike the man on every level. And if we get to the Super Bowl and he ends up being our OC for several more years, it's going to be a struggle for me not to criticize him.

From everything I've read Davis essentially took over for the DC at halftime when up to that point the DC's scheme was completely kicking our ass. Davis was a shitty coach and Arians called a spade a spade, big deal. If Tomlin were to pull that bullshit then I hope every single coach on the team would have the cajones to stand up and say something. Go to a prevent defense at half time what the fuck was he thinking. People bitch about this pc world, but when someone doesn't do the pc thing you get your panties all in a wad.
And look what happened when he "called out" the running backs, mendy ran harder and with more authority then we've seen all year. You say it's calling him out, but it looks to me as if he issued a challenge and the players responded. Football isn't a warm and fuzzy sport where they all sit around sing kumbayah. These guys are grown men and if calling them out is what it takes for them to perform then by god piss them off. They're getting paid millions of dollars to play a game they can afford a shrink when they retire.

You people bitch about him being predictable, but give him no credit for breaking out new formations every week with new plays and new plays in old formations. He routinely keeps 4 wr's, 3 te's, and 3 rb's in the game plan and puts them in position to make plays. He Repeatedly comes up with new game plans each week tailored to what we're facing. You look at the Titans game and say "see we should play like this every week", but fail to acknowledge what the Titans defense attempted to do and how that affected the game plan. In that game the Titans played defense to take away the deeper patterns and we ate them alive underneath. THe next week the Jags did the exact opposite and stacked 8,9,10 men in the box for the whole game to take away the underneath stuff and the game plan reflected that. Of course the fire arians crowd sit's there refuses to pay attention to what's happening on the field(10 men in the box) and simply cries about how he goes against what was working. I guess to ya'll it makes more sense to force the ball into tight coverage and risk throwing ints or running into 10 man fronts. Then follow that up with the game plan against NE who's fairly stout against the run,but weak against the pass and we exploited the hell out of them with the pass. And if I might add he did so using a TE which is something the haters claim he's not capable of doing. I guess in the Fire Arians crowd world it would make more sense to run runr run instead of exploiting a weakness. Of course exploiting a weakness is yet one more thing he supposedly can't do. And since you seem to have forgotten if it wasn't for Ben's rookie fucking mistake of throwing to a wide open middle linebacker the Patriots would have managed all of 3 points in the half. Then we turn around with yet another game plan against the Ravens which was working fairly well(which is no easy task) up until Ben did his best short bus rider impersonation. In case you forgot it was yet another stupid play by our freaking hero #7 that cost us that game. There's a turning point in every game and Ben's 10 point swing int to Suggs was it. IF you look at the Chiefs game you blame Arians but ignore 10 offensive penalties, 2 turnovers, at least 6 dropped passes, and a truly impressive man coverage job by the Chiefs. . Ya'll blame Arians for plays that take too long to develop but don't even know what the play call was to begin with. Meanwhile ya'll are sitting there on the couch screaming for Arians head while ignoring Ben standing back there doing pump fakes. All the while missing the connection between blitzing linebackers,pump fakes, and sacks.


And to top it off we've started the same 5 players on the offensive line twice and we're still 9-3.

But, you're right Arians sucks.


















I swear some of you are as stubborn as the old man from the Walking Dead. It isn't until someone unloads 10 rounds into the chest of a zombie at point blank range that he suddenly realizes that they aren't people anymore.

I intended for this to be a light-hearted thread, hence my smilie emoticon in the first post. If you hate when people are PC and like when they call a spade a spade, then you should have no problem with me telling you to lighten the fuck up. Everyone else on this board has a sense of humor, jokes around, and doesn't take everything so fucking seriously. Whether we're talking about politics or football, you can't stand when someone has a different opinion than you. Well guess what ... at the end of the day, you're not always right, and we're all nothing but armchair quarterbacks. So lighten up and have some fun.

supytalpeht wrote:

From everything I've read Davis essentially took over for the DC at halftime when up to that point the DC's scheme was completely kicking our ass. Davis was a shitty coach and Arians called a spade a spade, big deal. If Tomlin were to pull that bullshit then I hope every single coach on the team would have the cajones to stand up and say something. Go to a prevent defense at half time what the fuck was he thinking. People bitch about this pc world, but when someone doesn't do the pc thing you get your panties all in a wad.
And look what happened when he "called out" the running backs, mendy ran harder and with more authority then we've seen all year. You say it's calling him out, but it looks to me as if he issued a challenge and the players responded. Football isn't a warm and fuzzy sport where they all sit around sing kumbayah. These guys are grown men and if calling them out is what it takes for them to perform then by god piss them off. They're getting paid millions of dollars to play a game they can afford a shrink when they retire.

You people bitch about him being predictable, but give him no credit for breaking out new formations every week with new plays and new plays in old formations. He routinely keeps 4 wr's, 3 te's, and 3 rb's in the game plan and puts them in position to make plays. He Repeatedly comes up with new game plans each week tailored to what we're facing. You look at the Titans game and say "see we should play like this every week", but fail to acknowledge what the Titans defense attempted to do and how that affected the game plan. In that game the Titans played defense to take away the deeper patterns and we ate them alive underneath. THe next week the Jags did the exact opposite and stacked 8,9,10 men in the box for the whole game to take away the underneath stuff and the game plan reflected that. Of course the fire arians crowd sit's there refuses to pay attention to what's happening on the field(10 men in the box) and simply cries about how he goes against what was working. I guess to ya'll it makes more sense to force the ball into tight coverage and risk throwing ints or running into 10 man fronts. Then follow that up with the game plan against NE who's fairly stout against the run,but weak against the pass and we exploited the hell out of them with the pass. And if I might add he did so using a TE which is something the haters claim he's not capable of doing. I guess in the Fire Arians crowd world it would make more sense to run runr run instead of exploiting a weakness. Of course exploiting a weakness is yet one more thing he supposedly can't do. And since you seem to have forgotten if it wasn't for Ben's rookie fucking mistake of throwing to a wide open middle linebacker the Patriots would have managed all of 3 points in the half. Then we turn around with yet another game plan against the Ravens which was working fairly well(which is no easy task) up until Ben did his best short bus rider impersonation. In case you forgot it was yet another stupid play by our freaking hero #7 that cost us that game. There's a turning point in every game and Ben's 10 point swing int to Suggs was it. IF you look at the Chiefs game you blame Arians but ignore 10 offensive penalties, 2 turnovers, at least 6 dropped passes, and a truly impressive man coverage job by the Chiefs. . Ya'll blame Arians for plays that take too long to develop but don't even know what the play call was to begin with. Meanwhile ya'll are sitting there on the couch screaming for Arians head while ignoring Ben standing back there doing pump fakes. All the while missing the connection between blitzing linebackers,pump fakes, and sacks.


And to top it off we've started the same 5 players on the offensive line twice and we're still 9-3.

But, you're right Arians sucks.

I swear some of you are as stubborn as the old man from the Walking Dead. It isn't until someone unloads 10 rounds into the chest of a zombie at point blank range that he suddenly realizes that they aren't people anymore.

Whoa, whoa, whoa there Supy. I think if you look back, as much as I've ridden him for horrible games, I've come back and praised him for good games. I'm not one of those fans that blames the OC for a loss and gives credit to the players for the W. While I know it's a combination of all things (coaching, player execution, and even audibles called by Ben), I'm going to give Arians credit when the game comes out, like I did last week against the bungals.

I'm not completely ignorant to the game and can see when the O-line should have blocked someone, or the WR should have caught an easy pass (2 weeks ago against the chefs comes to mind), but I've seen too many games where the overall responsibility falls on the OC.

I don't support Arians, but I'll blame him when I feel he needs to shoulder the blame and I'll praise him when he deserves to be praised.

I don't support Arians, but I'll always support the Steelers!

Wallace108 wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

Wallace108 wrote:

supytalpeht wrote:

So basically if they win 6-7 more games this year


You really put your neck on the line with that one.

Are you suggesting it's impossible for us to get to the Super Bowl this year? I think it's quite possible. And if they do, you don't understand how hard it will be for me not to bitch about Arians. I don't just dislike him as an OC ... I dislike him as a person. He's arrogant and never takes responsibility for any of his team's failures. I remember after the Steelers beat the Browns in the playoffs, he threw Butch Davis and the DC under the bus. He publicly blamed them for the loss. I couldn't imagine LeBeau or Tomlin ever throwing another coach under the bus like that. And even now, he blames our running backs for our subpar running game. He said they'd run more if the running backs would run better. I guess it has nothing to do with his schemes or lack of a fullback. Even if he's right, he shouldn't publicly blame the running backs. I just really dislike the man on every level. And if we get to the Super Bowl and he ends up being our OC for several more years, it's going to be a struggle for me not to criticize him.

From everything I've read Davis essentially took over for the DC at halftime when up to that point the DC's scheme was completely kicking our ass. Davis was a shitty coach and Arians called a spade a spade, big deal. If Tomlin were to pull that bullshit then I hope every single coach on the team would have the cajones to stand up and say something. Go to a prevent defense at half time what the fuck was he thinking. People bitch about this pc world, but when someone doesn't do the pc thing you get your panties all in a wad.
And look what happened when he "called out" the running backs, mendy ran harder and with more authority then we've seen all year. You say it's calling him out, but it looks to me as if he issued a challenge and the players responded. Football isn't a warm and fuzzy sport where they all sit around sing kumbayah. These guys are grown men and if calling them out is what it takes for them to perform then by god piss them off. They're getting paid millions of dollars to play a game they can afford a shrink when they retire.

You people bitch about him being predictable, but give him no credit for breaking out new formations every week with new plays and new plays in old formations. He routinely keeps 4 wr's, 3 te's, and 3 rb's in the game plan and puts them in position to make plays. He Repeatedly comes up with new game plans each week tailored to what we're facing. You look at the Titans game and say "see we should play like this every week", but fail to acknowledge what the Titans defense attempted to do and how that affected the game plan. In that game the Titans played defense to take away the deeper patterns and we ate them alive underneath. THe next week the Jags did the exact opposite and stacked 8,9,10 men in the box for the whole game to take away the underneath stuff and the game plan reflected that. Of course the fire arians crowd sit's there refuses to pay attention to what's happening on the field(10 men in the box) and simply cries about how he goes against what was working. I guess to ya'll it makes more sense to force the ball into tight coverage and risk throwing ints or running into 10 man fronts. Then follow that up with the game plan against NE who's fairly stout against the run,but weak against the pass and we exploited the hell out of them with the pass. And if I might add he did so using a TE which is something the haters claim he's not capable of doing. I guess in the Fire Arians crowd world it would make more sense to run runr run instead of exploiting a weakness. Of course exploiting a weakness is yet one more thing he supposedly can't do. And since you seem to have forgotten if it wasn't for Ben's rookie fucking mistake of throwing to a wide open middle linebacker the Patriots would have managed all of 3 points in the half. Then we turn around with yet another game plan against the Ravens which was working fairly well(which is no easy task) up until Ben did his best short bus rider impersonation. In case you forgot it was yet another stupid play by our freaking hero #7 that cost us that game. There's a turning point in every game and Ben's 10 point swing int to Suggs was it. IF you look at the Chiefs game you blame Arians but ignore 10 offensive penalties, 2 turnovers, at least 6 dropped passes, and a truly impressive man coverage job by the Chiefs. . Ya'll blame Arians for plays that take too long to develop but don't even know what the play call was to begin with. Meanwhile ya'll are sitting there on the couch screaming for Arians head while ignoring Ben standing back there doing pump fakes. All the while missing the connection between blitzing linebackers,pump fakes, and sacks.


And to top it off we've started the same 5 players on the offensive line twice and we're still 9-3.

But, you're right Arians sucks.


















I swear some of you are as stubborn as the old man from the Walking Dead. It isn't until someone unloads 10 rounds into the chest of a zombie at point blank range that he suddenly realizes that they aren't people anymore.

I intended for this to be a light-hearted thread, hence my smilie emoticon in the first post. If you hate when people are PC and like when they call a spade a spade, then you should have no problem with me telling you to lighten the fuck up. Everyone else on this board has a sense of humor, jokes around, and doesn't take everything so fucking seriously. Whether we're talking about politics or football, you can't stand when someone has a different opinion than you. Well guess what ... at the end of the day, you're not always right, and we're all nothing but armchair quarterbacks. So lighten up and have some fun.

I've got zero problems with people having different opinions than myself. In fact at times like these when I've got at minimum an extra 12 hours a day on my hands I relish it. You're telling me too lighten up, but I couldn't possibly be any lighter. However, it doens't matter if it's politics, football, or bbq if important pieces of the equation are left out or ignored I will say something. I purposefully went out of my way to make sure nothing in my response was directed solely towards you, hence the use of ya'll and the fire arians crowd etc.. Two days ago you wanted me to essentially spell out why I think Arians is a good OC and so I did. In doing so gave specific examples of what the fire arians crowd claims about and what they're missing or ignoring.

I've got a request and a suggestion. Do you have a link to where Arians called out Davis? Not the interview that was done 8 years later, but something within a day or two. WIth regards to teh suggestion at this point in my life I want to be doing 2 things, laughing or fucking. Try not to read emotion into text on the internet, because I can assure there's no attack directed towards you.

I'm not sure where the idea of the "fire Arians crowd" not giving him credit comes from, Supy. I've seen all of us give him credit when he calls a good game and he deserves it. I've done it several times this season myself. I hate to tell you this, but the "fire Arians crowd" has quite a large population for there to not be some merit in the argument against him.

I think everyone here (even Truck!) would love to have him stick around and be the O.C. if he consistently called solid, sensible games, utilized a fullback, and played to players' strengths instead of attempting to make a monkey a mathematician. He has exhibited and flat out stated some truly ignorant, pig-headed and stubborn philosophies that defy logic at times. He has shown that he is capable of calling an excellent game at times, but will almost always resort back to his greedy, self-important ways and that's where the problem lies. He hasn't proven that he can adapt and adjust consistently. He seems to be more worried about being right than changing up and trying to adjust to what's going on during a game.

You said that you were glad that Arians called Butch Davis out. Why is it that when Davis asked his players to do something that didn't work, you say he should have been called out on the carpet for it, but when Arians asks his players to do something that doesn't work, it's because the players didn't execute it properly? That sounds kind of like a double standard to me. I'm in no way defending Davis because he was a bullshit coach, but in that sense, we feel Arians is a bullshit coach as well. It's still only opinion.

I know you feel you have been lighthearted concerning this topic, but I'm seeing it the same way. You have been a bit antagonistic at times with the jabs. The gameday thread was full of the same mocking tone. We can debate the topic all you want, but there's no need for the sniping. If you feel we have been doing something to that effect, please let us know so we can discuss it further. Until such time, let's all lighten the fuck up and just enjoy the goddamned site and have fun. I'm a little sick of the bickering over a fucking game.

Buddha Bus wrote:

I'm not sure where the idea of the "fire Arians crowd" not giving him credit comes from, Supy. I've seen all of us give him credit when he calls a good game and he deserves it. I've done it several times this season myself. I hate to tell you this, but the "fire Arians crowd" has quite a large population for there to not be some merit in the argument against him.

I think everyone here (even Truck!) would love to have him stick around and be the O.C. if he consistently called solid, sensible games, utilized a fullback, and played to players' strengths instead of attempting to make a monkey a mathematician. He has exhibited and flat out stated some truly ignorant, pig-headed and stubborn philosophies that defy logic at times. He has shown that he is capable of calling an excellent game at times, but will almost always resort back to his greedy, self-important ways and that's where the problem lies. He hasn't proven that he can adapt and adjust consistently. He seems to be more worried about being right than changing up and trying to adjust to what's going on during a game.

You said that you were glad that Arians called Butch Davis out. Why is it that when Davis asked his players to do something that didn't work, you say he should have been called out on the carpet for it, but when Arians asks his players to do something that doesn't work, it's because the players didn't execute it properly? That sounds kind of like a double standard to me. I'm in no way defending Davis because he was a bullshit coach, but in that sense, we feel Arians is a bullshit coach as well. It's still only opinion.

I know you feel you have been lighthearted concerning this topic, but I'm seeing it the same way. You have been a bit antagonistic at times with the jabs. The gameday thread was full of the same mocking tone. We can debate the topic all you want, but there's no need for the sniping. If you feel we have been doing something to that effect, please let us know so we can discuss it further. Until such time, let's all lighten the fuck up and just enjoy the goddamned site and have fun. I'm a little sick of the bickering over a fucking game.

Yeah all of that right up there all bolded out for everyone!

what did i miss?

Buddha Bus wrote:

I'm not sure where the idea of the "fire Arians crowd" not giving him credit comes from, Supy. I've seen all of us give him credit when he calls a good game and he deserves it. I've done it several times this season myself. I hate to tell you this, but the "fire Arians crowd" has quite a large population for there to not be some merit in the argument against him.

I think everyone here (even Truck!) would love to have him stick around and be the O.C. if he consistently called solid, sensible games, utilized a fullback, and played to players' strengths instead of attempting to make a monkey a mathematician. He has exhibited and flat out stated some truly ignorant, pig-headed and stubborn philosophies that defy logic at times. He has shown that he is capable of calling an excellent game at times, but will almost always resort back to his greedy, self-important ways and that's where the problem lies. He hasn't proven that he can adapt and adjust consistently. He seems to be more worried about being right than changing up and trying to adjust to what's going on during a game.

You said that you were glad that Arians called Butch Davis out. Why is it that when Davis asked his players to do something that didn't work, you say he should have been called out on the carpet for it, but when Arians asks his players to do something that doesn't work, it's because the players didn't execute it properly? That sounds kind of like a double standard to me. I'm in no way defending Davis because he was a bullshit coach, but in that sense, we feel Arians is a bullshit coach as well. It's still only opinion.

I know you feel you have been lighthearted concerning this topic, but I'm seeing it the same way. You have been a bit antagonistic at times with the jabs. The gameday thread was full of the same mocking tone. We can debate the topic all you want, but there's no need for the sniping. If you feel we have been doing something to that effect, please let us know so we can discuss it further. Until such time, let's all lighten the fuck up and just enjoy the goddamned site and have fun. I'm a little sick of the bickering over a fucking game.

First of all to the best of my knowledge what Arians did is no where near what I would consider calling someone out, 8 years later it came up in an interview. I would agree to an extent if it had happened during the post game press conference or even a day or two later, but not 8 years later. Using that as one of your reasons for hating a coach isn't even being remotely objective, that's just throwing everythign you possibly can at the wall and hoping it sticks. But, having watched that game if it really did happen the way Arians said then someone probably shoudl have said something at the time. IF it did go down the way Arians said I'll be dollars to donuts there were quite a few things said in the locker room after teh game and I'm sure the owner had a hand in saying it.

I'm also sure it's just me but essentially firing your DC on the sideline during a winning performance is slightly different than Arians calling plays that "don't work" and certainly doesn't have jack to do with execution. When Milller misses his block on a screen that's not Arians fault, that's execution period. IF Kemo goes running down the field spears someone and get's a 15 yard unsportsmanlike that's execution(or if you prefer stupidity). When Brown misses the hot read on a blitz that's execution. None of those things fall into the category of a double standard, not by a long shot. All the stuff about being greedy and pigheaded is garbage and you know it. It can't possibly be quantified or proven by any us and using quotations which we all know are frequently taken out of context is pointless and insulting.
Regarding a fullback, I remember the 3 yards and a cloud of dust with great fondness. I also remember wishing that we would open up the offense. I also remember a span of 18 years without a SB appearance and then another half dozen or so before a victory. All while using a FB. Call me crazy, but I would much rather go to the SB every couple of years using a tight end as a hybrid fullback than go back to the 3 yards and a cloud of dust and 20 years between appearances.

I have to admit my drunk ass enjoyed poking fun at ya'll in the game day thread. Admittedly I probably pushed a little too hard, lord knows it isn't the first time and it certainly won't be the last. But, it certainly wasn't anywhere near the tirade that was directed towards me a few weeks prior.

supytalpeht wrote:

First of all to the best of my knowledge what Arians did is no where near what I would consider calling someone out, 8 years later it came up in an interview. I would agree to an extent if it had happened during the post game press conference or even a day or two later, but not 8 years later. Using that as one of your reasons for hating a coach isn't even being remotely objective, that's just throwing everythign you possibly can at the wall and hoping it sticks. But, having watched that game if it really did happen the way Arians said then someone probably shoudl have said something at the time. IF it did go down the way Arians said I'll be dollars to donuts there were quite a few things said in the locker room after teh game and I'm sure the owner had a hand in saying it.

I'm also sure it's just me but essentially firing your DC on the sideline during a winning performance is slightly different than Arians calling plays that "don't work" and certainly doesn't have jack to do with execution. When Milller misses his block on a screen that's not Arians fault, that's execution period. IF Kemo goes running down the field spears someone and get's a 15 yard unsportsmanlike that's execution(or if you prefer stupidity). When Brown misses the hot read on a blitz that's execution. None of those things fall into the category of a double standard, not by a long shot. All the stuff about being greedy and pigheaded is garbage and you know it. It can't possibly be quantified or proven by any us and using quotations which we all know are frequently taken out of context is pointless and insulting.
Regarding a fullback, I remember the 3 yards and a cloud of dust with great fondness. I also remember wishing that we would open up the offense. I also remember a span of 18 years without a SB appearance and then another half dozen or so before a victory. All while using a FB. Call me crazy, but I would much rather go to the SB every couple of years using a tight end as a hybrid fullback than go back to the 3 yards and a cloud of dust and 20 years between appearances.

I have to admit my drunk ass enjoyed poking fun at ya'll in the game day thread. Admittedly I probably pushed a little too hard, lord knows it isn't the first time and it certainly won't be the last. But, it certainly wasn't anywhere near the tirade that was directed towards me a few weeks prior.

And when Arians calls plays that are on the outskirts of the limitations of the players on his team, he needs to not call those plays.

I don't think anyone has denied that players need to execute, but I have yet to hear any of the Arians supporters mention that Arians needs to utilize the talent level on his team and not call the game as if he's got an all-star in every position. But yet I've heard the nay-sayers of Arians give him credit for good games (like this past Sunday).

Yeah I remember the 3 yards and cloud of dust years too. And I hated those years too. I've given each individual coach the benefit of the doubt until they prove to me that they just don't have it anymore. And I believe that Arians doesn't have it anymore. IMO, he doesn't have the ability to call games consistenly, he doesn't have the ability to change his game plans when the other team makes their in game changes, and when we play a team with a more dominant defense it shows.

Is it all Arians? No. And I've voice my opinion about what players should be gone too, but when it comes down to the offensive performance only three people are going to be held to the light - QB, HC, and OC. Again, IMO, Ben has proven himself, I have no problem with Tomlin, and so that leaves it on Arians.


And you know Wally back to your original point about trying to make this a light hearted discussion, I don't believe it's possible to have light hearted discussion about BA. I think it just draws the blood lines. But I applaud you for trying.

stlrtruck wrote:

I don't believe it's possible to have light hearted discussion about BA.

It's too bad Arians isn't a gay, Republican Christian who enjoys dog fighting and is running for president. Just imagine the awesome discussions we could have.

Supy, as far as all the non-Arians stuff in this thread, I sent you a PM (which I believe you saw). So I won't address anything further here. We can continue that privately.

But since this thread has turned into an Arians debate, I'll address that.
First of all, I'm with Buddha and Truck ... I've given Arians credit when I feel he's deserved it. I gave him two game balls this season, and I've stated that he's not an idiot ... he's got a good offensive mind and if he had a solid O-line to work with and a QB who was quick at reading and reacting, he could put together one hell of an offense. And during one of our debates, Buddha and I both acknowledged that part of the problem is Ben's inability to make quick reads and that he doesn't always take what the defense gives him. So I'm not sure how that translates into us being "stubborn."

OK, on to your points ...

supytalpeht wrote:

First of all to the best of my knowledge what Arians did is no where near what I would consider calling someone out, 8 years later it came up in an interview. I would agree to an extent if it had happened during the post game press conference or even a day or two later, but not 8 years later.

Eight years from now, if Tomlin or LeBeau are asked about the Super Bowl loss to Green Bay, do you think either of them would blame Ben for throwing interceptions, or blame Mendy for fumbling as the reason why they lost? I just can't imagine that happening. But Arians did blame Davis (I misspoke when I said he also blamed the DC). I don't care if it's right after the game or 8 years later, a true professional doesn't throw someone under the bus. Arians very easily could have said that he's focused on helping the Steelers win, not what happened 8 years ago. That would have been the professional way to handle it. That's how Tomlin would have handled it.

But let's talk about that Cleveland-Pittsburgh game for a second. The Browns had a 24-7 lead at halftime and a 27-14 lead in the fourth quarter. Arians is probably right that Butch Davis screwed up by having the Browns defense play prevent in the second half. But here's something he failed to acknowledge ... the Steelers couldn't score if they didn't have the ball. The reason the Steelers offense was able to score and get back in the game is because the Browns offense kept giving them the ball in the second half. Now tell me if this scenario sounds vaguely familiar ... the Browns offense had the ball and a 5-point lead with 3:06 left in the game. All they had to do was kill a few minutes off the clock and the Browns would have won. Forget everything else that happened up to that point. It didn't matter. The Browns offense had the ball and the lead and an opportunity to put the game away. And they failed. They gave the ball back to the Steelers with a chance to win the game on their final drive. And they did. That scenario should sound familiar because the Steelers offense has done the same exact thing 6 times this season alone. Six times this season, the Steelers offense has had the lead and the ball with about 4 minutes left in the game. And all six times they failed to score or kill time off the clock and gave the other team a chance to win the game on their final drive. Just like the Arians-led Browns offense. And then looking back on it 8 years later, rather than recognizing that his offense had a chance to win the game and failed, Arians did what he does best ... he blamed Butch Davis and the defense.

supytalpeht wrote:

When Milller misses his block on a screen that's not Arians fault, that's execution period. IF Kemo goes running down the field spears someone and get's a 15 yard unsportsmanlike that's execution(or if you prefer stupidity). When Brown misses the hot read on a blitz that's execution.

You're correct. Sometimes the problem is poor execution by the players. It wasn't Arians' fault that Wallace dropped one, if not two, touchdowns against the Chiefs. But sometimes Arians puts the players in a position to fail. For instance, when Moore fumbled against the Chiefs, why was he even in there in that situation. He has Mendy and Redman, and he decided to put Moore in there. That was just stupid. And during the first Bengals game, it was third and goal from about the 3 or 4. We lined up with an empty backfield. I swear on my kids' lives that I stood up and shouted, "NO!!! BEN'S GOING TO GET SACKED!!!" Sure enough, a blitz up the middle and Ben got sacked. Sure, you can blame Pouncey (or one of the guards ... I forget who) for missing the block. But why the hell were they in an empty backfield on third and short? Having a back in that situation does 2 things: 1) It makes the defense guess whether you're running or passing. And 2) The back could have picked up that blitz. So while some will blame Moore and the offensive line for the failure of those two plays, I blame Arians.

supytalpeht wrote:

using quotations which we all know are frequently taken out of context is pointless and insulting.

OK, this doesn't have anything to do with Arians, but this is something I know a little about. Everyone always says they were misquoted or their words were taken out of context. Yeah, it happens occasionally, but most of the time when someone says they were misquoted, the quote was correct. How many times have you said something, and someone laughs and repeats what you said? And you say, "I didn't say that." And they say, "Yes you did." When you're speaking, you're not always thinking about what you're saying.

supytalpeht wrote:

Regarding a fullback, I remember the 3 yards and a cloud of dust with great fondness. I also remember wishing that we would open up the offense. I also remember a span of 18 years without a SB appearance and then another half dozen or so before a victory. All while using a FB. Call me crazy, but I would much rather go to the SB every couple of years using a tight end as a hybrid fullback than go back to the 3 yards and a cloud of dust and 20 years between appearances.

I don't disagree with this. The conservative play calling during most of the Cowher era used to drive me nuts. But Cowher's record when leading by 10 in the fourth quarter speaks for itself: 102-1-1. It's hard to argue with that record. But you're right, it didn't always translate into Super Bowls.

supytalpeht wrote:

You people bitch about him being predictable, but give him no credit for breaking out new formations every week with new plays and new plays in old formations. He routinely keeps 4 wr's, 3 te's, and 3 rb's in the game plan and puts them in position to make plays.

But yet more times than not, the results are always the same, especially late in games.

OK, I've said enough for now. But let me say one more thing. Last week, Arians himself praised Gilbert and Foster for their run-blocking. We know they're not great at pass blocking. Then a few days later, Legursky said that he's a better run blocker than he is a pass blocker. So we have at least 3 offensive linemen who are better run blockers than pass blockers. And we have a QB who isn't the best at reading and reacting. So Arians persists in going with a pass-first offense. Square peg, meet round hole.

Oh, one more thought ... it's a damn good thing we're 9-3 and not 3-9.

fer69 wrote:

what did i miss?

Not much. Arians is NEVER wrong. He singlehandedly won the Patriots game. Our defensive scheme by LeBeau had nothing to do with it.

For what it's worth I think Arians is a dick. Does he call good games, yes. Does he place his head up his ass, yes.

Calling someone out in the media by a player makes him a DUMBASS but a coach is simply calling a "spade a spade" is OK.

BULLSHIT!!!

Do it in the locker room. It undermines the team by going public. Just my opinion for what it's worth.

Wallace108 wrote:

It's too bad Arians isn't a gay, Republican Christian who enjoys dog fighting and is running for president. Just imagine the awesome discussions we could have.

:mob:

supytalpeht wrote:

nts ...

supytalpeht wrote:

First of all to the best of my knowledge what Arians did is no where near what I would consider calling someone out, 8 years later it came up in an interview. I would agree to an extent if it had happened during the post game press conference or even a day or two later, but not 8 years later.

Eight years from now, if Tomlin or LeBeau are asked about the Super Bowl loss to Green Bay, do you think either of them would blame Ben for throwing interceptions, or blame Mendy for fumbling as the reason why they lost? I just can't imagine that happening. But Arians did blame Davis (I misspoke when I said he also blamed the DC). I don't care if it's right after the game or 8 years later, a true professional doesn't throw someone under the bus. Arians very easily could have said that he's focused on helping the Steelers win, not what happened 8 years ago. That would have been the professional way to handle it. That's how Tomlin would have handled it.

You can put Tomlin up on a pedestal if you would like, but to claim that you know how he would respond to something 10 minutes from now let alone a decade down the road is preposterous.

Quote :

But let's talk about that Cleveland-Pittsburgh game for a second. The Browns had a 24-7 lead at halftime and a 27-14 lead in the fourth quarter. Arians is probably right that Butch Davis screwed up by having the Browns defense play prevent in the second half. But here's something he failed to acknowledge ... the Steelers couldn't score if they didn't have the ball. The reason the Steelers offense was able to score and get back in the game is because the Browns offense kept giving them the ball in the second half. Now tell me if this scenario sounds vaguely familiar ... the Browns offense had the ball and a 5-point lead with 3:06 left in the game. All they had to do was kill a few minutes off the clock and the Browns would have won. Forget everything else that happened up to that point. It didn't matter. The Browns offense had the ball and the lead and an opportunity to put the game away. And they failed. They gave the ball back to the Steelers with a chance to win the game on their final drive. And they did. That scenario should sound familiar because the Steelers offense has done the same exact thing 6 times this season alone. Six times this season, the Steelers offense has had the lead and the ball with about 4 minutes left in the game. And all six times they failed to score or kill time off the clock and gave the other team a chance to win the game on their final drive. Just like the Arians-led Browns offense. And then looking back on it 8 years later, rather than recognizing that his offense had a chance to win the game and failed, Arians did what he does best ... he blamed Butch Davis and the defense.

You're leavign out one major detail, the inept Arians and his stupid play calling kicked our ass with a backup qb. Despite what TOmlin says there is a reason why we have starters, bench players and jv , varsity etc. He took a backup making his first start of the season in a playoff game and they put up 30+ points against us. You can look back and say he should have run instead of pass, but passing is what got them into the playoffs and to that point. We frequently hear how he "goes against what's working" but clearly in this instance that isn't the case. The bottom line is the OC's job first and foremost is to put points on the board and DC's job is to prevent points. You can point to that game when he ws the OC for a different team and say see he's an asshole blah blah blah, but 30+ points with a backup qb is doing his job.

You keep bringing up these 6 games but let's look at a one. Bengals vs Steelers I 1st and 10 Steelers ball couple minutes to play. We ran 1st and 2nd down and managed all of 2 yards. A team that's averaging less than 4 yards a carry needs 8 to keep the ball moving. So we can go with an average running back on a team that averages under 4 yards per carry or you can put the ball in the hands of your 100million dollar qb, above average te, hall of fame #3-4 wr, and one of the fastest wr's in the game. The qb option completes over 60% of his passes for an average of 7.96 yards per attempt. One of those options is almost guaranteed to result in a punt while the other more often than not has us kneeling down to run out the clock. More than likely you'll point out the if we ran the clock wouldn't have stopped and this is true to an extent. However, the Bengals have multiple timeouts and the 2 minute warning making the clock point moot. Keep your foot on the gas and go for the win or ease up and put the game in the hands of your defense?





[quote]
You're correct. Sometimes the problem is poor execution by the players. It wasn't Arians' fault that Wallace dropped one, if not two, touchdowns against the Chiefs. But sometimes Arians puts the players in a position to fail. For instance, when Moore fumbled against the Chiefs, why was he even in there in that situation. He has Mendy and Redman, and he decided to put Moore in there. That was just stupid. And during the first Bengals game, it was third and goal from about the 3 or 4. We lined up with an empty backfield. I swear on my kids' lives that I stood up and shouted, "NO!!! BEN'S GOING TO GET SACKED!!!" Sure enough, a blitz up the middle and Ben got sacked. Sure, you can blame Pouncey (or one of the guards ... I forget who) for missing the block. But why the hell were they in an empty backfield on third and short? Having a back in that situation does 2 things: 1) It makes the defense guess whether you're running or passing. And 2) The back could have picked up that blitz. So while some will blame Moore and the offensive line for the failure of those two plays, I blame Arians. [quote]

How many fumbles does Moore have in his career? Mendy? One of them is pretty damn reliable with the ball while the other has certainly shown a tendency of fumbling. Also we aren't exactly talking about sitting Adrian Peterson here. Over the years Moore has made some huge plays for us and for the most part he's certainly more decisive with the ball than Mendy.

supytalpeht wrote:

Regarding a fullback, I remember the 3 yards and a cloud of dust with great fondness. I also remember wishing that we would open up the offense. I also remember a span of 18 years without a SB appearance and then another half dozen or so before a victory. All while using a FB. Call me crazy, but I would much rather go to the SB every couple of years using a tight end as a hybrid fullback than go back to the 3 yards and a cloud of dust and 20 years between appearances.

I don't disagree with this. The conservative play calling during most of the Cowher era used to drive me nuts. But Cowher's record when leading by 10 in the fourth quarter speaks for itself: 102-1-1. It's hard to argue with that record. But you're right, it didn't always translate into Super Bowls.

supytalpeht wrote:

You people bitch about him being predictable, but give him no credit for breaking out new formations every week with new plays and new plays in old formations. He routinely keeps 4 wr's, 3 te's, and 3 rb's in the game plan and puts them in position to make plays.

Quote :

But yet more times than not, the results are always the same, especially late in games.

Really? I beg to differ it seems to me that little wishbone we saw this week worked very well and passing out of heavy 3 tight end set has worked very well also in multiple games.

Quote :

OK, I've said enough for now. But let me say one more thing. Last week, Arians himself praised Gilbert and Foster for their run-blocking. We know they're not great at pass blocking. Then a few days later, Legursky said that he's a better run blocker than he is a pass blocker. So we have at least 3 offensive linemen who are better run blockers than pass blockers. And we have a QB who isn't the best at reading and reacting. So Arians persists in going with a pass-first offense. Square peg, meet round hole.

YOu're leaving out a major part of the equation yet once again,Gilbert and Foster have only played together as tandem for something like 4 games now. In the article you're referencing Arans says they're becoming a pretty solid side, becoming as in a work in progress. Also the article doesn't say anything about pass blocking so inferring anything from it is just wrong. However, if you go to Steelers Depot and check out the offensive line breakdowns Gilbert is actually grading out better as a pass blocker than a run blocker. How many times have we heard over the years about how offensive lineman prefer run blocking to pass blocking?

YOu can sit there and blame Arians for putting together a pass first offense, but if the powers that be (Rooney and Tomlin) didn't like it you know damn well we wouldn't be running that style offense. And we certainly wouldn't be drafting players that fit the mold of a pass first offense. We are 9th in the league as a passing offense and 18th in rushing. The statistics say we are playing to our strengths not trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

I'll leave you with Tomlin's remarks regarding protecting the QB(paraphrased)There are two schools of thought for protecting the qb surround him with offensive linemen or give him weapons. Clearly Tomlin, Colbert, and Rooney are going with latter option.

supytalpeht wrote:

Buddha Bus wrote:

I'm not sure where the idea of the "fire Arians crowd" not giving him credit comes from, Supy. I've seen all of us give him credit when he calls a good game and he deserves it. I've done it several times this season myself. I hate to tell you this, but the "fire Arians crowd" has quite a large population for there to not be some merit in the argument against him.

I think everyone here (even Truck!) would love to have him stick around and be the O.C. if he consistently called solid, sensible games, utilized a fullback, and played to players' strengths instead of attempting to make a monkey a mathematician. He has exhibited and flat out stated some truly ignorant, pig-headed and stubborn philosophies that defy logic at times. He has shown that he is capable of calling an excellent game at times, but will almost always resort back to his greedy, self-important ways and that's where the problem lies. He hasn't proven that he can adapt and adjust consistently. He seems to be more worried about being right than changing up and trying to adjust to what's going on during a game.

You said that you were glad that Arians called Butch Davis out. Why is it that when Davis asked his players to do something that didn't work, you say he should have been called out on the carpet for it, but when Arians asks his players to do something that doesn't work, it's because the players didn't execute it properly? That sounds kind of like a double standard to me. I'm in no way defending Davis because he was a bullshit coach, but in that sense, we feel Arians is a bullshit coach as well. It's still only opinion.

I know you feel you have been lighthearted concerning this topic, but I'm seeing it the same way. You have been a bit antagonistic at times with the jabs. The gameday thread was full of the same mocking tone. We can debate the topic all you want, but there's no need for the sniping. If you feel we have been doing something to that effect, please let us know so we can discuss it further. Until such time, let's all lighten the fuck up and just enjoy the goddamned site and have fun. I'm a little sick of the bickering over a fucking game.

First of all to the best of my knowledge what Arians did is no where near what I would consider calling someone out, 8 years later it came up in an interview. I would agree to an extent if it had happened during the post game press conference or even a day or two later, but not 8 years later. Using that as one of your reasons for hating a coach isn't even being remotely objective, that's just throwing everythign you possibly can at the wall and hoping it sticks. But, having watched that game if it really did happen the way Arians said then someone probably shoudl have said something at the time. IF it did go down the way Arians said I'll be dollars to donuts there were quite a few things said in the locker room after teh game and I'm sure the owner had a hand in saying it.

I'm also sure it's just me but essentially firing your DC on the sideline during a winning performance is slightly different than Arians calling plays that "don't work" and certainly doesn't have jack to do with execution. When Milller misses his block on a screen that's not Arians fault, that's execution period. IF Kemo goes running down the field spears someone and get's a 15 yard unsportsmanlike that's execution(or if you prefer stupidity). When Brown misses the hot read on a blitz that's execution. None of those things fall into the category of a double standard, not by a long shot. All the stuff about being greedy and pigheaded is garbage and you know it. It can't possibly be quantified or proven by any us and using quotations which we all know are frequently taken out of context is pointless and insulting.
Regarding a fullback, I remember the 3 yards and a cloud of dust with great fondness. I also remember wishing that we would open up the offense. I also remember a span of 18 years without a SB appearance and then another half dozen or so before a victory. All while using a FB. Call me crazy, but I would much rather go to the SB every couple of years using a tight end as a hybrid fullback than go back to the 3 yards and a cloud of dust and 20 years between appearances.

I have to admit my drunk ass enjoyed poking fun at ya'll in the game day thread. Admittedly I probably pushed a little too hard, lord knows it isn't the first time and it certainly won't be the last. But, it certainly wasn't anywhere near the tirade that was directed towards me a few weeks prior.

Actually, I didn't say I hated Arians for calling out another coach. I used that example to point out your hypocrisy by saying that he should have called him out while maintaining that Arians shouldn't be called out for bad player execution. Why would you give Arians a pass while crucifying Butch Davis when it all comes down to player execution in your mind? Even if Davis "fired" his DC at halftime of a winning performance, according to your logic, the players should still execute what was called defensively by Davis regardless. I could care less if he actually did or did not call Davis out. I just wanted to make a point.

I have also criticized players for their poor execution as well. Ben, Farrior, Woodley, Mendy, Gay, Clark, the O-line and so on. You can go back and check any one of the "The Good, The Bad And The Ugly" threads for proof of it if you like. You are engaging in selective reading of my posts. I hardly criticize Arians ONLY as you seem to infer. There's plenty of evidence on this board to the contrary. Look it up. I have also given credit to Arians on several occasions as well, so let's not act as though I'm on some blinders-wearing witch hunt. I give credit and criticism where I feel it's due.... in my opinion. I have every right to mine as you do yours. I don't agree with your view of Arians, but I don't go around calling you "stupid" or mock you for thinking it. As far as my "knowing" my opinion of his greediness and pigheadedness is garbage, if I thought that, I wouldn't have said it and others agree with me. That doesn't necessarily make me right, but it certainly doesn't mean you are either. Arians and Ben even admitted to as much earlier in the season in an interview that they sometimes get too excited for the big play instead of taking what's given at times, so it comes from their own mouths, but I guess that's "garbage" too.

I agree with you on the "3 yards and a cloud of dust" comment. I'm not advocating going to a run favoring style of offense. I just want to see an effective and consistent use of the run to compliment our pass game. I think what we're seeing at times is the polar opposite of the old Cowher philosophy and I think it's equally as bad to rely too heavily on the pass game. Balance is the key. Defenses need to respect each to keep them off balance and guessing. It's no shock that going 5-wide on 3rd and 2 isn't going to make many opposing defenses fear the run to keep them honest. I think a major cog in making the run offense better is to incorporate a TRUE blocking fullback, not some mediocre hybrid TE/FB.

As far as the tirade directed at you, first, if you want to take the tone of antagonizer and mock people (whether it be by name or not, it's clear who the target(s) is/are), then expect a backlash. I stuck my neck out on that one and called an admin out on the board for doing it as I would anyone else.... you included. It caused some tense moments to the point that I was going to leave this board for good, so don't try to act like it wasn't addressed because it most definitely was and nearly at the cost of a good friendship. I did it because I felt it was the right thing to do and that EVERYONE should be held to the COC.... admins and mods included. Just know that I will not tolerate repeated violations of that nature towards respected members of this board. That warning goes for everyone. Trolls are one thing, but people who come here to discuss things and have fun will not be berated for having an opposing opinion.

On that note, I've read your later posts in this thread and I like the way you set out your beliefs. I may not agree with them all, but they aren't mocking or name-calling. Let's all just try to be civil in our arguments please.

what ever!