Some fans slamming Wallace....

Seriously Steeler Nation? Ok.....no one on this board, but I tend to gravitate to all of the Steeler Message Boards on game day after the game.

I've read quite a number of post bashing Wallace on his drops, people saying "trade him", complaining that he isn't worth even half of the money he wants.

Wallace no doubt got under my skin this summer, and at times, I had one foot on the screw Wallace bandwagon. However, this kid has talent and happened to have a bad game. Like Swann, Stallworth or Hines never dropped the ball? I still think Wallace will have a killer season if given the opportunity, and will improve next season (hopefully he will still be here).

Granted, I missed about 50% of the game so I don't know how badly Wallace messed up. But, really, do we throw him under the bus because he dropped a few???

If I remember correctly, he dropped two passes. Both were bad throws. One was catchable, but the other he barely got a hand on it. Brown, on the other hand, dropped a pass in the end zone that hit him right in the hands ... a perfectly thrown pass from Ben. And Mendy dropped the ball while running without anyone hitting him. I'm not criticizing Brown or Mendy, I'm just saying we need to keep Wallace's performance in perspective. It was raining and the ball was slippery.

I can understand why Steeler Nation is up in arms, it looks like there is a lack of effort on Wallace's part. As Wallace108 stated they were not great passes, but on one he flailed at the ball with one hand and you have to wonder if he may have been able to catch it if he used both hands or if he would have jumped or dove for the ball. If that's how he goes after passes in the regular season how will he react in a game that counts??? I aint sayin' I want to get rid of him, just that I can see why he's getting some slack.

One thing about Hines he was known for his efforts. He went over the middle, took and delivered vicious hits and never took a play off. I will take Hines effort over any other receivers flair any day of the week. As for Stallworth he was just plain Great and Swann played some of his best games in the post season and superbowls in particular.

I don't know that i'd call it "slamming"....at least from what i've seen.

But what i have seen and i completely concur with, is that Wallace does have stretches where he clearly "loafs" and many fans tend to be in agreement (and rightly so.....) that he's worth what the Steeler organization has offered up to this point and not a penny more. Not what his agent is pushing. I think Wallace has been led down an incorrect path by this agent.

He's an excellent receiver. But he's not in that 'upper-escalon" either. I don't, nor do many, many others, want to see him overpaid here and thus taking resources that we are going to desperately need to spend on the defensive side of the ball over the next few years.

So in a nutshell...somebody asking for outrageous amounts of money and nearly asking the organization to mortgage itself for him, needs to be playing like a Jerry Rice at this point.....not a mediocre-to-very good player who is dropping balls. It's not hard to see why there are complaints from the fans..

Yeah, you guys are right. Wallace isn't nearly as aggressive as he should be at times. I don't think lack of effort was to blame for his "drops" today, but I did notice it with a pass in the end zone. There was double coverage. One DB jumped for the ball, and the other one put a light hit on Wallace. The ball was thrown high and out of the back of the end zone. There's no way Wallace would have gotten it. But he didn't even make an attempt. It wasn't so far over his head that it wasn't worth an effort to go up after it.

But I still believe what I've been saying all along ... Wallace is important even if he's not getting the ball. He draws double coverage and opens up the field for the other receivers. If they get rid of Wallace, then all that attention goes to Brown. A lot of those passes over the middle to Brown aren't happening without Wallace on the field.

If you're going to blame Wallace, better ask Brown for the 7 points he dropped. But that's okay, everyone was a little off today. It's the first game off of a Bye-Week. No body'll give up anything for Wallace in a trade considering they'll have to turn around and sign him at the end of the years regardless.

Wallace108 wrote:

If I remember correctly, he dropped two passes. Both were bad throws. One was catchable, but the other he barely got a hand on it. Brown, on the other hand, dropped a pass in the end zone that hit him right in the hands ... a perfectly thrown pass from Ben. And Mendy dropped the ball while running without anyone hitting him. I'm not criticizing Brown or Mendy, I'm just saying we need to keep Wallace's performance in perspective. It was raining and the ball was slippery.

I looked at the non calls on Philly (pass interference and at least 2 holding) plus the fact that we dropped passes and fumbled all on our own and we were lucky to get the W. I questioned not kicking the FG on third down but Tomlin's plan worked or I'd be pissed at him. The bright spot was the run blocking,especially Colon and Mendy looked good. I hope LaMar is ok but Worilds seems better suited on the left side. Timmons looked like the guy we all want him to be. On a side note Wally thank you for the link it worked like a champ.

Make no mistake, Wallace DOES need to step it up next week. Regardless of whatever adversity it is that caused him to play bad Yesterday, he isn't going to stay in line with his contract hopes if it keeps happening.

Brown may have dropped a pass in the endzone, but at least he was targeted. He also accounted for almost half of Ben's passing numbers and led the team. Come on Wallace, bring it next game.

bayz101 wrote:

Brown may have dropped a pass in the endzone, but at least he was targeted. He also accounted for almost half of Ben's passing numbers and led the team. Come on Wallace, bring it next game.

Remember though ... Wallace is consistently double teamed, which makes it a little harder for him to get open. There's no way he's going to get targeted as much as Brown. He'd get more looks if they kept him in, but he's spreading the field and opening up stuff underneath for Brown and Miller. So there's more to his value than just his stats.

Everyone was not on the same page in the game. If you want to get rid of Wallace because of a dropped ball then you need to get rid of Brown, Mendy and the rest of the team. No one is perfect. We are used to seeing Wallace torch up the field for a bomb but if you notice his running alot of slants across the middle and different routes.

Wallace is gonna have games like this, they all will. To say trade him is just stupid and reactionary and makes no sense. Even when he is having an off game, the defense still has to account for him leaving Brown and Sanders open to do the damage.

While I'm not sayin' to get rid of him for drops I am frustrated with him for lack of effort. Guess I was spoiled by the effort Hines gave every week, he may not have made all the catches but you knew he would at least give it one helluva an effort even when he knew he was going to take a hit. That's the attitude I wanna see in Wallace.

Galax Steeler wrote:

Everyone was not on the same page in the game.

I agree. Even Ben seemed out of rhythm for most of the game. A lot of his passes were just off the mark. And even Pouncey effed up two snaps. If we look at individual performances, once you get past Timmons, Mendy, and Suisham, nobody else should be completely happy with the way they played.

Steelreign wrote:

Wallace is gonna have games like this, they all will. To say trade him is just stupid and reactionary and makes no sense. Even when he is having an off game, the defense still has to account for him leaving Brown and Sanders open to do the damage.

That's the argument I kept making during his holdout when a lot of fans kept saying we would be better off without him. Not only is he constantly drawing a double team, but he's also getting covered by the other team's No. 1 CB. A defense's top priority is to make sure Wallace doesn't burn them. So even if he's not getting any passes thrown his way, he's opening up the field for the other receivers. If you take Wallace out of the mix, I can guarantee that Brown's production would drop off considerably.

Butch wrote:

While I'm not sayin' to get rid of him for drops I am frustrated with him for lack of effort. Guess I was spoiled by the effort Hines gave every week, he may not have made all the catches but you knew he would at least give it one helluva an effort even when he knew he was going to take a hit. That's the attitude I wanna see in Wallace.

As I said earlier, I don't entirely disagree with you, Butch. There are passes where it looks like he doesn't make as much effort to get to the ball as he could. I have no clue if it's because he's afraid of taking a big hit, he doesn't possess that level of aggressiveness, or if it's something else entirely. Regardless of what it is, I definitely notice it once in a while. With that said, we can never expect Wallace to play like Hines Ward. They're two completely different receivers. Expecting Wallace to block and be aggressive like Hines would be like expecting Hines to constantly blow by defenders like Wallace does. They have different strengths and weaknesses. I don't think it's fair to try to compare Wallace to Ward. What I want from Wallace is to be the best at what he does. In order to do that, he needs to be more aggressive. We don't need him laying out safeties and linebackers like Ward used to do, but we do need him giving every ounce of effort to make a play on the ball.

I'm not so sure Wallace is more important to this team than any of our other receivers. You saw who Ben was throwing the ball to when the game was in question. Wallace gave up in the endzone, when he could of at LEAST tried to draw a penalty (and hell, maybe even catch it) and to top it off brought back Mendy's 22 yard run.

Brown may have dropped a pass, but at least he's working his ass off and showing a little heart. I haven't seen that out of Wallace in a year, and it seems whenever something doesn't go his way, he turns into a receiver who just does NOT give a shit, and THAT aggravates the SHIT out of me.

He can make all the big plays he wants, but until he starts showing a little heart and determination out there, I could care less where he ends up. It's not like Wallace is ahead of Brown from a statistical standpoint. I mean, he got outplayed in BOTH of our wins.

I'm not going to get bent out of shape about it, but I watched the game over and I fail to see his effort. Brown and Sanders had NO problem making big plays against First String defense's in the pre-season, so i'm not so sure the drop-off in effort will be as noticeable as a lot of you think.

My opinion: If the guys doesn't care, fuck his skills.

A lot of points to address here, Bayz.

bayz101 wrote:

I'm not so sure Wallace is more important to this team than any of our other receivers.

I agree. The sum is greater than any individual part. We rarely talk about Sanders, but I think he's also vital to the success of our offense. If I had to keep one receiver out of the three, I'd keep Brown. But that doesn't mean that I don't think Wallace and Sanders are important.

bayz101 wrote:

You saw who Ben was throwing the ball to when the game was in question.

Part of that is scheme and situation. Remember the final drive in the Super Bowl against the Cardinals? Who was Ben throwing to? It wasn't Hines Ward, who was still their best and most trusted receiver at that point.

bayz101 wrote:

Wallace gave up in the endzone, when he could of at LEAST tried to draw a penalty (and hell, maybe even catch it)

Yes, that play irritated me as well. But that was one play. His other "drops" in the game weren't because of a lack of effort. They were poorly thrown balls that were difficult to catch.

bayz101 wrote:

Brown may have dropped a pass, but at least he's working his ass off and showing a little heart. I haven't seen that out of Wallace in a year, and it seems whenever something doesn't go his way, he turns into a receiver who just does NOT give a shit, and THAT aggravates the SHIT out of me.

I just don't agree with this, Bayz. As I said earlier, there are times when he isn't as aggressive as I'd like him to be. In the Eagles game, I saw it once in the end zone on a pass that wasn't catchable. I think it's a stretch to suggest that he doesn't care. I've been a fan of the Steelers long enough to know that if they felt he didn't care and was only half-assing it out there, he would NOT be on the team, especially after his hold out. Lack of caring and effort is something the Steelers would not put up with.

bayz101 wrote:

Brown and Sanders had NO problem making big plays against First String defense's in the pre-season, so i'm not so sure the drop-off in effort will be as noticeable as a lot of you think.

They were going up against vanilla defenses in preseason. It's much different now (ask Chris Rainey). As I keep saying, Wallace is getting double teamed on almost every play. You take Wallace out of the mix, and all that attention goes to Brown. You'd see a huge drop-off in his production because he'd have a harder time getting open and Ben would then start looking more for Sanders.

Here's the bottom line: I've been a big supporter of Wallace, but even I'm not happy with his production right now. He needs to be more aggressive. But I think it's silly to be talking about trading him and pretending Brown would be just as effective without him. As long as Wallace is out there drawing double teams, he's opening things up for Brown. That's not a bad thing. Remember, the quarterback and receiver get all the glory on a touchdown pass, but it doesn't happen without good blocking from the line. There are a lot of things that don't show up in the stat book that are keys to success. Part of the reason Brown is getting open so much underneath is because of Wallace.

I don't think we need Wallace as much as you think we do
Sanders is almost as fast as Wallace and more importantly he seems to give a shit about his job
If Wallace wasn't Playing this would be our offense
Ben, Mandy, Sanders, Brown, Miller, Cotch, and that other tight end (can't remember his name )
nothing wrong with that line up If you ask me

im on the side of we need wallace. having him stretch the field opens things up for everybody else

But if Wallace is not there than sanders can take his spot and do the things Wallace does now
And let's not forget that Arians is not our OC anymore we finally have an OC that has a real play book and not a waffle house menu. So I doubt that we'll see Ben throw those bombs as much as he used to

In the first four games, Brown has 1 touchdown and is averaging 6 catches and 81 yards per game. Those aren't exactly All-Pro numbers, and that's WITH Wallace on the other side taking up double teams and stretching the field. I just don't understand how anyone thinks that if Wallace was taken out of the mix, Brown's production would increase or even stay the same now that he would be the top priority for defenses.

I agree that Wallace needs to be more aggressive. I'm not happy with the way he's playing right now. I just don't agree that we'd be better off without him.

Everyone is going to have a bad game every once in a while. There is nothing you can do about it. If you think about it, he's played pretty well so far this season. Other than the past game, I really have nothing to complain about.

Quote :

As I said earlier, I don't entirely disagree with you, Butch. There are passes where it looks like he doesn't make as much effort to get to the ball as he could. I have no clue if it's because he's afraid of taking a big hit, he doesn't possess that level of aggressiveness, or if it's something else entirely. Regardless of what it is, I definitely notice it once in a while. With that said, we can never expect Wallace to play like Hines Ward. They're two completely different receivers. Expecting Wallace to block and be aggressive like Hines would be like expecting Hines to constantly blow by defenders like Wallace does. They have different strengths and weaknesses. I don't think it's fair to try to compare Wallace to Ward. What I want from Wallace is to be the best at what he does. In order to do that, he needs to be more aggressive. We don't need him laying out safeties and linebackers like Ward used to do, but we do need him giving every ounce of effort to make a play on the ball.

I can see where you are coming from on this, but it was not my intention to compare the 2 in their respected abilities. My comparison was more of one showing someone who gives effort all the time. Effort was how a short, not real fast receiver became a legendary Steeler and if there is one thing I want to see from all the players on this team it's effort. Effort has nothing to do with abilities and if you can't show it I don't need you on this team.

As for Wallace being off the team and leaving a huge void I will say that WR is the most saturated position in the NFL. You don't have to have an elite you just need the right combination of pretty decent. Some of the most prolific WR's in the NFL don't have a ring T.O., Moss, Fitz and Megatron all come to mind. Don't overpay for a WR when you have other needs that need to be addressed.

As for the comment about the Superbowl and not going to Hines I will say Santonio had proven himself in the playoffs. I considered Hines to be more of a chain mover who would get you the yards you needed but not a homerun hitter like Santonio was.

Butch wrote:

I can see where you are coming from on this, but it was not my intention to compare the 2 in their respected abilities. My comparison was more of one showing someone who gives effort all the time. Effort was how a short, not real fast receiver became a legendary Steeler and if there is one thing I want to see from all the players on this team it's effort. Effort has nothing to do with abilities and if you can't show it I don't need you on this team.

As for Wallace being off the team and leaving a huge void I will say that WR is the most saturated position in the NFL. You don't have to have an elite you just need the right combination of pretty decent. Some of the most prolific WR's in the NFL don't have a ring T.O., Moss, Fitz and Megatron all come to mind. Don't overpay for a WR when you have other needs that need to be addressed.

As for the comment about the Superbowl and not going to Hines I will say Santonio had proven himself in the playoffs. I considered Hines to be more of a chain mover who would get you the yards you needed but not a homerun hitter like Santonio was.

Just let me say that trying to defend Wallace's effort on certain plays is an argument I wouldn't be able to win. I think everyone here is in agreement that he needs to step it up.

As for the point you were making in regard to Ward, I get what you're saying. I'm a little jaded on this topic because I've been arguing for a while that Hines Ward has spoiled most Steelers fans. We now expect every receiver to block like he did, lay out linebackers, and be an absolute beast. And if a receiver doesn't do all that, then he's just not good enough. But Ward was unlike any other receiver, and we can't expect other receivers to play like he did. That would be like expecting our next safety to do all the things that Troy does. If that's what we expect, we're going to be disappointed.

I misunderstood a little where you were coming from at first. Since you're just talking about effort, I can't disagree with you.

Where I do disagree though with some of the sentiment I'm hearing (not from you, Butch) is with the level of effort Wallace is or isn't giving. Like I said, I've seen passes that may or may not have been catchable, but he didn't make much of an effort to go after them. But I'm hearing a lot of fans suggest that this is the norm with Wallace. I think it's the exception. A few years ago, Tomlin benched Mendhenhall for a game because he wasn't happy with his effort. If Wallace was the lazy player that some are suggesting and was just half-assing it, I don't believe that Tomlin and Rooney would stand for it. We know that Tomlin and the front office wasn't happy with Wallace because of the hold out, and if he was consistently showing a lack of effort, I have no doubt that he'd be disciplined. But I haven't even heard a rumor of any frustration from the team. We know how the media loves to blow up things like this, so if there was even an ounce of frustration from the team over the effort that Wallace gives, we would have heard about it.

Everyone here doesn't see the situation quite the same, but I believe this is the bottom line: Wallace definitely needs to step it up more.

I call it a frequent occurrence because I've seen him give up on plays more times than I care to remember, going back to last year. Not just touchdowns, but anything that isn't hitting him in the numbers. He doesn't care to catch the tough catches away from his body, and just like any other receiver in the NFL, he occasionally pulls in the amazing grabs with the help of the sticky gloves provided by the NFL's sponsors.

What makes him special is his speed, but his effort could certainly be improved. I understand he's not going to be aggressive like that of Ward, and even Antonio Brown, but he needs to show a little effort towards making tough catches. It may not seem like much, but a little effort towards a pass that's to the outside could mean the different between a punt and 6 points

bayz101 wrote:

I call it a frequent occurrence because I've seen him give up on plays more times than I care to remember, going back to last year.

This is where our disagreement is at. I can think of maybe 4 or 5 passes over three years that he didn't make as much effort as I thought he could have. Of those 4 or 5 passes, maybe 1 or 2 might have been catchable.

This isn't directed at you Bayz, or anyone here for that matter, but I think there's some fans who WANT to hate Wallace because of the hold out. And they're going to jump at every opportunity to criticize him. I can understand those who are frustrated with him and who say he isn't living up to the amount of money he thinks he deserves. But in no way do I agree with those who think we should kick him to the curb and that we'd be better off without him.

I understand how you feel about Wallie it's the same way I feel about Hines. Even though you would think I have the easier road to hoe it's not what some may think. I was pretty upset with the way they handled his situation in the off season and was horrified that Ben couldn't target him even once during the loss to San Fran last year. Oh well it is what it is. I will be watching tomorrow night so let's hope we see something special that will continue on for the rest of the year. Good Luck Wallie, I can guarantee Steeler Nation will be watching.

BTW not trying to be condescending calling him Wallie just like the way it sounds.