TPOP: On Giving Michael Vick a Second Chance

Fire Arians wrote:

exactly, the media and everybody has no problem riding ray lewis' nuts why can't they forgive vick?

This is what probably bugs me. People act as though Atlanta never happened.

solardave wrote:

as far as Ben we will probably never know what really happened there. I've seen no evidence that either party was "paid off".

I've read nothing about settling out of court. Maybe I missed it. If he did what he was accused of then he is a common criminal but my take is he was a jerk putting himself situations that would harm him AND OTHERS!

Civil settlement agreements often have non-disclosure agreements - note that when the Nevada case settled these were the statements

Lawyers for Ben Roethlisberger and a woman who accused him of raping her at a Lake Tahoe hotel-casino in 2008 have reached a settlement that ends her civil lawsuit against the Steelers quarterback.

Cal Dunlap, the Reno lawyer representing the woman, confirmed the settlement on Friday but declined to discuss the terms of the agreement.

"The matter has been resolved and I have no further comment," he told The Associated Press....

David Cornwell, Roethlisberger's lawyer, did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment on Friday. His agent, Ryan Tollner, said neither he nor Roethlisberger would have any comment.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7485346/settlement-reached-ben-roethlisberger-civil-lawsuit

With regard to Milledgeville, when the DA said he was not going to seek an indictment he noted

[T]he woman -- a student at nearby Georgia College & State University -- her family and her attorney had sent him a letter March 17 saying that they wished to drop the matter because "a criminal trial would be a very intrusive personal experience" and "a public trial would not at all be in her best interest as she goes forward in her life."

Mr. Bright said the woman's wish to drop the matter made his decision "easier," but added, "Had she not taken that position ... I would still be announcing the same result. Based on the evidence here, we don't have enough evidence to prosecute. I know when I have a case, and I know when I don't. And I don't have enough evidence to convince 12 jurors beyond a reasonable doubt that Mr. Roethlisberger would be guilty of a crime of rape."

Lee Parks, an attorney for the woman, released a statement following Monday's news conference saying, "We are appreciative that our client's request that this matter be closed has been honored by the district attorney. It is our sincere hope that the district attorney's decision will conclude the matter."

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2010/04/13/Grow-up-DA-tells-Roethlisberger-while-announcing-decision-not-to-prosecute-rape-case/stories/201004130163

Lee Parks is not a criminal defense attorney - he is a very successful Atlanta attorney who often represents plaintiffs in civil cases involving allegations of gender discrimination and sexual harassment.

I do not believe the family retained Mr. Parks only to provide advice on prepping the accuser for her potential grand jury testimony - I would be stunned if an agreement had not been reached to resolve potential civil claims before the family requested the Milledgeville DA not to seek an indictment

teegre wrote:

Fire Arians wrote:

exactly, the media and everybody has no problem riding ray lewis' nuts why can't they forgive vick?

This is what probably bugs me.  People act as though Atlanta never happened.  

Here's a not so fun fact: nobody has ever been convicted for the murders. Even the two men who Ray Lewis eventually testified against were acquitted.

I wonder who Steelers fans hate more, thug Ray Lewis or God's linebacker Ray Lewis.

JonM229 wrote:

Here's a not so fun fact: nobody has ever been convicted for the murders.  Even the two men who Ray Lewis eventually testified against were acquitted.

I wonder who Steelers fans hate more, thug Ray Lewis or God's linebacker Ray Lewis.

Really???.........you want to bring that up?? Nobody convicted OJ for Ron and Nicole either. Anyways, here is some good reading from the USA Today if you need to revisit Linebacker Murder Cover Up.


Slayings not forgotten, Ray Lewis not forgiven

Brent Schrotenboer, USA TODAY Sports 2:39 p.m. EDT June 18, 2013

...Only Lewis pleaded guilty in relation to the case: for obstruction of justice, a misdemeanor. He originally was charged with two counts of murder but struck a deal with prosecutors in exchange for his testimony against two of his companions that night, Reginald Oakley and Joseph Sweeting.

Lewis never directly linked his two friends to the killings, and they were acquitted. Lewis had testified that Oakley, Sweeting and another man had gone to a sporting goods store the previous day to buy knives. Baker's blood later was found in Lewis' limo. Having fled the crime scene, Lewis told the limo's passengers to "keep their mouths shut." The white suit Lewis was wearing that night — on Super Bowl Sunday — never was found.

"I'm not trying to end my career like this," Lewis said in his hotel that night, according to the testimony of a female passenger in the limo.

He didn't. For his punishment, Lewis received one year of probation and a $250,000 fine by the NFL.

Lewis declined to comment when asked about the subject Thursday by USA TODAY Sports. Messages left for agents and attorneys representing him were not returned. Oakley, recently living in Atlanta, didn't return messages seeking comment. A relative of Sweeting, living in Miami, hung up when reached by USA TODAY Sports. And the prosecutor, Paul Howard, declined a request to be interviewed.

Said Lewis: "You want to talk to me about something that happened 13 years ago right now?"


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/01/10/ray-lewis-baltimore-ravens-atlanta-murder-2000/1566198/

Here is a little more background from the story.  "God's Linebacker" doesnt sount like he spoke so Holy at the deposition.  



The victims

Baker and Lollar were 21 and 24 at the times of their deaths, both having been stabbed several times in the heart and upper body.

Both had overcome personal struggles before that night. Lollar's mother had been in and out of prison, leaving Lollar-Owens and her mother to raise Richard. Both Lollar and Baker had criminal records with minor drug-related offenses.

But they moved from Akron to Atlanta in search of a better life. Lollar was trying to make it there as a barber, Baker as an artist. Lollar also was ready to have a family. His fiancé, Kellye Smith, was pregnant with his daughter, born about a month after his murder.

The daughter is now 12 and attends a private school near Atlanta. The family says it tries to shield her from the details of her father's death.

"She just knows her father is not here," says Katheryn Smith, mother of Kellye Smith. "She doesn't really know what happened. So far, we've kept most of it from her."

Katheryn Smith says she harbors no grudge against Lewis, though the circumstances are different from those of other relatives.


Smith's family sued Lewis for $13 million and reached an undisclosed settlement on behalf of Richard Lollar's daughter in 2004.

In the suit, Lewis answered questions under oath in a deposition.

"His attitude during the deposition and everything wasn't that great," Katheryn Smith says of Lewis. "He disappointed me in the things he said. But I decided I wasn't the one (to judge). You have to leave that up to God, you know? He was there when it happened. I think they all got off fairly easy, but I don't have any hard feelings. I think he had a bad choice of friends."

She declined to elaborate on Lewis' deposition testimony, which has not been disclosed. Kellye Smith didn't return a message seeking comment. The settlement includes a confidentiality clause.

JonM229 wrote:

teegre wrote:

Fire Arians wrote:

exactly, the media and everybody has no problem riding ray lewis' nuts why can't they forgive vick?

This is what probably bugs me.  People act as though Atlanta never happened.  

Here's a not so fun fact: nobody has ever been convicted for the murders.  Even the two men who Ray Lewis eventually testified against were acquitted.

I wonder who Steelers fans hate more, thug Ray Lewis or God's linebacker Ray Lewis.

He's a Raven, that's already grounds for being guilty in my book

JonM229 wrote:

teegre wrote:

Fire Arians wrote:

exactly, the media and everybody has no problem riding ray lewis' nuts why can't they forgive vick?

This is what probably bugs me.  People act as though Atlanta never happened.  

Here's a not so fun fact: nobody has ever been convicted for the murders.  Even the two men who Ray Lewis eventually testified against were acquitted.

I wonder who Steelers fans hate more, thug Ray Lewis or God's linebacker Ray Lewis.

My favorite Raven is Shannon Sharpe.  

During a pre-game interview before the 2012 SuperBowl, Sharpe asked Stabby McKnife about those murders.  Stabby glared at him... and finally answered, giving one of the oddest answers ever:  

"Those deaths were in God's plan."  

Sharpe looked stunned, and asked for clarification... and Stabby sounded even more crazy:  

"God wanted those two men dead."  

SUMMATION:  
According to Stabby, he was merely "doing God's good work."  And, who are we to judge what God told Stabby to do with that knife???  


.

Fire Arians wrote:

JonM229 wrote:

teegre wrote:

Fire Arians wrote:

exactly, the media and everybody has no problem riding ray lewis' nuts why can't they forgive vick?

This is what probably bugs me.  People act as though Atlanta never happened.  

Here's a not so fun fact: nobody has ever been convicted for the murders.  Even the two men who Ray Lewis eventually testified against were acquitted.

I wonder who Steelers fans hate more, thug Ray Lewis or God's linebacker Ray Lewis.

He's a Raven, that's already grounds for being guilty in my book

QFT

ImmaculateGreenePolamalu wrote:

I understand why people are upset. I really do. I have two dogs myself and have had a pet dog for pretty much every year of my life. But Vick did his time and he has acknowledged the wrong he did and tried to do better. i don't blame people for not liking the guy. I am certainly not a fan still but as you point out Teeg, Ken Lay never apologized for ruining the lives of dozens of people and Ray Lewis is treated like a hero especially by the Ravens fans who are hissing at the move. And honestly those who say the Chief would not have permitted this are ignoring that Art Rooney, Sr went to bat for Ernie Holmes when Ernie fired a weapon at a police chopper I believe. I think the Steelers FO does have higehr standards than most but they also believe in that age of old virtue of forgiveness. Michael Vick actually spent time in jail for what he did. He shouldn't be ruined forever. Again you won't see me buy a Vick jersey or profess to be a fan of his just because he's a Steeler now but I do believe he's earned a second chance. Others who have done far worse than vick don't get anywhere near the hate he gets.

This is a great post.


.

OX1947 wrote:

2nd chance? Have you guys been living in Pluto the last 7 years? Michael Vick has had a full career since he served his time for this. hahaah

True... except now that he's a Steeler, it's overreaction time for some fans.

All 9 of them.


.

ETL wrote:

Personally I value people more than dogs and there are some players on our roster who did some bad things to other "people" or put themselves in situations where they could have done harm to people (i.e. driving a car while high)

If you find yourself easily rooting for the current Steelers but have an issue with Michael Vick - a person who admitted he was wrong, went to prison, paid for his crimes and made restitution after prison by doing charity work for animal shelters, etc ... then I just can't understand your point of view unless you feel that animals such as dogs are much more valuable than people.

I think there are a bunch of scumbags on this football team as there are on all teams.  They have hurt women and I bet those women will never forget the fear and trauma for the rest of their lives.  And when you have no problems rooting for these Steeler players who have hurt women but then protest over Vick - you are basically telling them that "dogs are way more valuable than you, bitch!"

I don't like what Vick did nor do I like what I know some of the other Steelers have done - but all of them have admitted their wrong doing and some of them (especially Vick) have paid for their crimes.  

I will root for Vick with no conflict in my conscience.  And I root for all the other Steelers with no conflict as well.

This is also a great post.


.

ETL wrote:

Personally I value people more than dogs and there are some players on our roster who did some bad things to other "people" or put themselves in situations where they could have done harm to people (i.e. driving a car while high)

If you find yourself easily rooting for the current Steelers but have an issue with Michael Vick - a person who admitted he was wrong, went to prison, paid for his crimes and made restitution after prison by doing charity work for animal shelters, etc ... then I just can't understand your point of view unless you feel that animals such as dogs are much more valuable than people.

I think there are a bunch of scumbags on this football team as there are on all teams.  They have hurt women and I bet those women will never forget the fear and trauma for the rest of their lives.  And when you have no problems rooting for these Steeler players who have hurt women but then protest over Vick - you are basically telling them that "dogs are way more valuable than you, bitch!"

I don't like what Vick did nor do I like what I know some of the other Steelers have done - but all of them have admitted their wrong doing and some of them (especially Vick) have paid for their crimes.  

I will root for Vick with no conflict in my conscience.  And I root for all the other Steelers with no conflict as well.

Nice post ET, I also value humans more than animals.

I'll also root for the Steelers to win, always, with or without Vick playing, if someone feels genuine remorse about what they did (and it does look like the guy does) then they deserve a second chance

I don't like Vick being on the team, but the man's gotta eat, so I'll deal with it.

Atlanta Dan wrote:

solardave wrote:

as far as Ben we will probably never know what really happened there. I've seen no evidence that either party was "paid off".

I've read nothing about settling out of court. Maybe I missed it. If he did what he was accused of then he is a common criminal but my take is he was a jerk putting himself situations that would harm him AND OTHERS!

Civil settlement agreements often have non-disclosure agreements - note that when the Nevada case settled these were the statements

Lawyers for Ben Roethlisberger and a woman who accused him of raping her at a Lake Tahoe hotel-casino in 2008 have reached a settlement that ends her civil lawsuit against the Steelers quarterback.

Cal Dunlap, the Reno lawyer representing the woman, confirmed the settlement on Friday but declined to discuss the terms of the agreement.

"The matter has been resolved and I have no further comment," he told The Associated Press....

David Cornwell, Roethlisberger's lawyer, did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment on Friday. His agent, Ryan Tollner, said neither he nor Roethlisberger would have any comment.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7485346/settlement-reached-ben-roethlisberger-civil-lawsuit

With regard to Milledgeville, when the DA said he was not going to seek an indictment he noted

[T]he woman -- a student at nearby Georgia College & State University -- her family and her attorney had sent him a letter March 17 saying that they wished to drop the matter because "a criminal trial would be a very intrusive personal experience" and "a public trial would not at all be in her best interest as she goes forward in her life."

Mr. Bright said the woman's wish to drop the matter made his decision "easier," but added, "Had she not taken that position ... I would still be announcing the same result. Based on the evidence here, we don't have enough evidence to prosecute. I know when I have a case, and I know when I don't. And I don't have enough evidence to convince 12 jurors beyond a reasonable doubt that Mr. Roethlisberger would be guilty of a crime of rape."

Lee Parks, an attorney for the woman, released a statement following Monday's news conference saying, "We are appreciative that our client's request that this matter be closed has been honored by the district attorney. It is our sincere hope that the district attorney's decision will conclude the matter."

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2010/04/13/Grow-up-DA-tells-Roethlisberger-while-announcing-decision-not-to-prosecute-rape-case/stories/201004130163

Lee Parks is not a criminal defense attorney - he is a very successful Atlanta attorney who often represents plaintiffs in civil cases involving allegations of gender discrimination and sexual harassment.

I do not believe the family retained Mr. Parks only to provide advice on prepping the accuser for her potential grand jury testimony - I would be stunned if an agreement had not been reached to resolve potential civil claims before the family requested the Milledgeville DA not to seek an indictment

Anyone can speculate based on the lack of information and again, we will probably never KNOW what really happened in both cases. all we really know is 2 women accused Ben of rape. Comparing him to other players in murder cases is a stretch IMO. Don't get me wrong rape is a terrible crime and should be punished if proven in a court of law. So should murder as in the case of Lewis and Stallworth. Lewis cut a deal and Stallworth bought his way out by giving the family 1 million cash. This is on record. At least Michael Vick owned up to what he did and has been without incident since. So has Ben. As far as Ray Lewis is concerned I dont know if he's killed anyone since and if he did God probably signed off on it ANYWAY SO LET'S BYPASS THE 5 YEAR RULE AND PUT HIM IN NOW. As a player whether we like to admit it or not he was pretty good.Not Jack Lambert but he is probably in the top 20. Maybe even top 10.

Vick supports legislation protecting pets in cars

Originally posted on Sportsnaut | By Rachel Wold | Last updated 12/7/15

Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Michael Vick is now advocating new legislation for animal rights.

On Tuesday, Vick is scheduled to meet with Pennsylvania lawmakers to support PA House Bill 1516, otherwise known as the “pets in cars” bill. This bill would give the local police authority to rescue dogs and cats from vehicles due to unsafe temperatures in the cars.

Recognizing that he is not exactly the ideal spokesperson for such an initiative, Vick explained himself via Jeremy Fowler of ESPN.

“I know that I’m an unlikely advocate,” Vick said through a representative. “I was part of the problem. Now, my perspective can help reach people that activists can’t reach. I can help others become agents of change.”

Vick will reportedly be accompanied by school kids from Harrisburg, Pa., to lobby to the Democratic caucus, with representatives Jake Wheatley Jr. and Ed Gainey on hand to host Vick’s visit.

Vick served nearly two years in prison after he pleaded guilty in 2007 to federal conspiracy charges for his role in a dogfighting ring. Since his release, the quarterback has played seven seasons in the NFL, spending time with the Philadelphia Eagles, New York Jets and now Steelers.

Since serving his jail time, Vick has been involved in other local advocacy efforts involving pets, including his public support of the Animal Fighting Spectator Prohibition Act which President Obama passed in 2014.

“All animals require kindness and respect,” Vick said. “They depend on us, like children depend on us. Many animal welfare bills across the nation do not get enough attention to pass. We can change that.”

Even though Vick appears to be a changed man and he has paid his debt to society, there always will remain those folks who still can’t put what Vick’s past cruel behavior in the rear view mirror.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14313173/michael-vick-pittsburgh-steelers-meeting-lawmakers-support-pets-cars-bill

Hawaii 5-0 wrote:

Vick supports legislation protecting pets in cars

Originally posted on Sportsnaut | By Rachel Wold | Last updated 12/7/15

Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Michael Vick is now advocating new legislation for animal rights.

On Tuesday, Vick is scheduled to meet with Pennsylvania lawmakers to support PA House Bill 1516, otherwise known as the “pets in cars” bill. This bill would give the local police authority to rescue dogs and cats from vehicles due to unsafe temperatures in the cars.

Recognizing that he is not exactly the ideal spokesperson for such an initiative, Vick explained himself via Jeremy Fowler of ESPN.

“I know that I’m an unlikely advocate,” Vick said through a representative. “I was part of the problem. Now, my perspective can help reach people that activists can’t reach. I can help others become agents of change.”

Vick will reportedly be accompanied by school kids from Harrisburg, Pa., to lobby to the Democratic caucus, with representatives Jake Wheatley Jr. and Ed Gainey on hand to host Vick’s visit.

Vick served nearly two years in prison after he pleaded guilty in 2007 to federal conspiracy charges for his role in a dogfighting ring. Since his release, the quarterback has played seven seasons in the NFL, spending time with the Philadelphia Eagles, New York Jets and now Steelers.

Since serving his jail time, Vick has been involved in other local advocacy efforts involving pets, including his public support of the Animal Fighting Spectator Prohibition Act which President Obama passed in 2014.

“All animals require kindness and respect,” Vick said. “They depend on us, like children depend on us. Many animal welfare bills across the nation do not get enough attention to pass. We can change that.”

Even though Vick appears to be a changed man and he has paid his debt to society, there always will remain those folks who still can’t put what Vick’s past cruel behavior in the rear view mirror.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14313173/michael-vick-pittsburgh-steelers-meeting-lawmakers-support-pets-cars-bill

Good for him. I think his past actually makes him more credible here. I am glad to see him doing this.

It's time to shut up about Mike Vick

Mike Dick can't even beat landry jones, that means it's time to retire. LJ is terrible

Not that anyone here has done this (quite the opposite) but I love that there are still idiots who try to say "he's only doing it to make his image better, he's still a dog killer." If that was the case he would have stopped doing stuff like this around 2011. The fact that he's still doing stuff like this half a decade after he was released form jail and several years after making a tremendous NFL comeback and repairing his image speaks volumes to his sincerity on the matter and his character.

He simply doesn't need to do things like this anymore, and he does anyway. The man genuinely feels remorse for what he did and is making efforts to prevent others from making the same mistakes in the future. You don't need to have a positive opinion of him because of what he did a decade ago but you sure as hell shouldn't have a negative opinion of him now when he's been doing things like this around the country for several years.

PhantomJB93 wrote:

Not that anyone here has done this (quite the opposite) but I love that there are still idiots who try to say "he's only doing it to make his image better, he's still a dog killer."  If that was the case he would have stopped doing stuff like this around 2011.  The fact that he's still doing stuff like this half a decade after he was released form jail and several years after making a tremendous NFL comeback and repairing his image speaks volumes to his sincerity on the matter and his character.

He simply doesn't need to do things like this anymore, and he does anyway.  The man genuinely feels remorse for what he did and is making efforts to prevent others from making the same mistakes in the future.  You don't need to have a positive opinion of him because of what he did a decade ago but you sure as hell shouldn't have a negative opinion of him now when he's been doing things like this around the country for several years.

i still have a negative opinion of him, and always will

He's getting a chance to bounce back.

I'm not exactly a very forgiving person, but there's literally nothing else Vick can do to repair his integrity at this point. If people can't forgive him now, who can they forgive?

fuck mike vick

vasteeler wrote:

fuck mike vick

I feel like you're hiding your emotions..

Please don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.