What do we do with Timmons?

IowaSteeler927 wrote:

pczach wrote:

This team is so terrible at developing talent that they outplayed and controlled nearly the entire game against the team representing the AFC in the Super Bowl with half the offense out injured.


Yep, they have no idea what they're doing.

Yeah I don't get it, we were a few plays away from being in the AFC Championship game without Antonio Brown even on the field and yet there is a contingent of individuals that still find something to complain about... We should be proud of what this team was able to accomplish this season despite injuries. We have much better depth than I thought at a lot of positions. We address a few key needs in the draft, and maybe with a free agent signing, and we could be a force to be reckoned with.

You guys and your "rational thought process"...don't you know that has no place in this forum when we didn't win the super bowl

31 different NFL fanbases will want somebody(or many) released or fired because they didn't win it all. The armchair GM doesn't normally use logic, while the real GM's that do , stay at their job for a long time.

This Imperial guy is a classic, brings nothing to a debate.

so, yes I watched every minute of every game. I watched Jones do nothing again, Dupree showed signs but no real impact, Shazier, when on the field showed improvement from year 1 and was dominant in the Bengals game, nothing out of any DB, Vince Williams is average. Tuitt and Heyward are the only two I can say game in and game out had an impact. missing games like Shazier and not showing up is not improving. BUT...I repeat...BUT...I rather have the youth where the arrow can point up then an aging veteran who arrow is pointing down

Timmons was the same way, took 3 years to have an impact on the defense. But, his days are behind him.

see the light bulb joke in my other thread guys.

steelers5895 wrote:

This Imperial guy is a classic, brings nothing to a debate.

so, yes I watched every minute of every game.  I watched Jones do nothing again, Dupree showed signs but no real impact, Shazier, when on the field showed improvement from year 1 and was dominant in the Bengals game, nothing out of any DB, Vince Williams is average.  Tuitt and Heyward are the only two I can say game in and game out had an impact.  missing games like Shazier and not showing up is not improving.  BUT...I repeat...BUT...I rather have the youth where the arrow can point up then an aging veteran who arrow is pointing down

Timmons was the same way, took 3 years to have an impact on the defense.  But, his days are behind him.  

see the light bulb joke in my other thread guys.

What's your solution then? That's 4 critical areas that need addressing in your book. Who are you going to get to replace them? Rookies? Free agents? If you are depending on rookies to lead you to the Super Bowl, you're in dire shape to begin with. Let's break down what you said:

Jones - correct. Jones is (and may never be) a true impact player. Most LBs show the most improvement in year 3. Jones was decent at sealing the edge against the run, but didn't show much in the way of pass rush. But what do you do? Can Harrison be counted on again at age 37/38 as anything other than a situation player or backup [the answer is no]. Is the answer Moats, who may be a level below Jones [again, no.] Do we go to the well again and draft another OLB, and hope a rookie can beat out the vet [not likely]. Jones is the best we have at the position right now. We'll have to make do. Not every player on the D needs to be a Pro Bowler.

Dupree - he's a rookie. For a rookie, he did well enough. Let's see where he is in year 2 or 3 before passing judgement.

Shazier - agree. Impact when healthy. Although not fair to him (and really not his fault), he has got to stay healthier.

Williams - he's a solid contributing backup. Same with Spence. I don't expect them to be Pro Bowlers.

So, let's get to the real elephant in the room: Timmons. Yes, Timmons hasn't shown the same level of production. His stats show this. However, who is going to replace him? Another ILB via draft? We have other, more pressing areas. Teams are not going to offer a quality young player for a "veteran whose arrow is pointing down". This isn't Madden, where you can dupe the computer into having an all pro roster. And it's not like Timmons fell off a cliff. His production is down, but he is far for the biggest liability on the D.

Besides, he is a UFA next year. We could restructure this year and get some cap space if needed. Or we simply ride out his contract and part ways, should his production absolutely tank.

Jak341, that's the big question and my concern I mentioned. we are very slow in developing young defensive talent and in turn we kept aging veterans around too long and paid guys like Woodley and Cortez Allen too much.

EVERYBODY joked and laughed at my post about trading Bell but that's the solution. We have a championship offense without Bell. Its our defense that will keep us out of a Super Bowl. If Peyton Manning didn't miss on so many throws and they didn't have so many drops the score would have been a lot different. Everyone says how great we played but Manning, who was a turnover machine, didn't throw one pick.

Although unlikely, play along.

If we were able to trade bell for a 2 and 3...lets say to Detroit. That gives us two premium mid round picks in this draft. All of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd rd picks are defense. whatever combination but you get two corners, 2 lbs, 2 DL. In Free Agency you give a 3 year deal to Weddle. he is a play maker. His age will keep his contract demands down and although not in his prime, he is a significant upgrade and we need upgrades.

BUT WE NEEE TO DEVELOP TALENT WE DRAFT ON DEFENSE!!!!

The hope is Dupree takes the next step and Shazier can stay on the field. I don't think Jones, Moats or Harrison are the answer at OLB.

Another post on the other board all you Einstein's laughed at was we should hire Wade Phillips as DC. He got every ounce of talent out of that defense and made it #1 with basically the same type personnel we have to fit the BASE 3-4. too late for that but I wanted new blood from outside the organization to run this defense. it stunk all year. yeah, great against the run because everyone passed on us because our corners players 20 yards deep (coaching) because we cant cover anyone because we give too much time to the QB.

steelers5895 wrote:

This Imperial guy is a classic, brings nothing to a debate.

so, yes I watched every minute of every game.  I watched Jones do nothing again, Dupree showed signs but no real impact, Shazier, when on the field showed improvement from year 1 and was dominant in the Bengals game, nothing out of any DB, Vince Williams is average.  Tuitt and Heyward are the only two I can say game in and game out had an impact.  missing games like Shazier and not showing up is not improving.  BUT...I repeat...BUT...I rather have the youth where the arrow can point up then an aging veteran who arrow is pointing down

Timmons was the same way, took 3 years to have an impact on the defense.  But, his days are behind him.  

see the light bulb joke in my other thread guys.

There's nothing to debate. You are stating things that are just wrong. You are contradicting knowen facts. If you couldnt see how much young developing future probowlers like Shazier or the much improved Tuitt and Heyward progressed you must never watch them play. Shaz ripped the ball out Hills hand and that was probably the main  reason we won. Dupree looks like he's going to be a good player, he did well for a rookie.

This is from the guy that said Bell has had 2 surgeries because you assume whenever someone gets hurt they need surgery. This topic Is about as debatable as what color the sky is
You can't make completely obsurd statements and expect a logical debate. You are wrong and nobody here thinks our team has trouble developing their defense besides you.

Shazier was healthy the second half of the season and improved a lot from last year. After the coaches called him out and said he had to start playing through pain, and it looks like it worked.

I'm not saying our defense is perfect, we clearly lack talent in the secondary and we could use some depth on our d line but that isn't the product as an underdeveloped team its a product of us rebuilding our defense after we lost a bunch of old stars who left big shoes to fill. There is nothing wrong with the development.

we can't develop defensive talent.  two guys (Tuitt and Heyward) in 10 years?  lets face it, how many All pros did Timmons get in his career? how many game changing plays?  not as many as other mid first rd picks should.  

William Gay- continually torched, was let go and then brought back because we cant develop DBs
Bryant McFadden- same as above- not sure who got torched more in Super Bowl 45 - him or Gay
Cortez Allen- enough said
Ryan Mundy- useless and gone
Shamarko Thomas- who we traded a third to move up to get- no more than special teams- average there too
Antwan Blake- below average
Keenan Lewis- played at a high level in his contract year and went elsewhere- took 3 years for him to produce
Curtis Brown- useless


Lamaar Woodley- good start- faded
Lawrence Timmons- never an all pro
Stevenson Sylvestor- useless
Jason Worilds- one good year
Ryan Shazier- missed 11 games first 2 years- and we have to call him out to play at the level he should?
Jarvis Jones- Bust
Bud Dupree- too early but looked more like Jones than an elite pass rushing star
Vince Williams- low draft pick over performing
Sean Spence- overcame bad injuries- no major impact since healthy

Cameron Heyward- Hit
Stephon Tuitt- Hit
Ziggy Hood- Miss
Stephen McClendon- good solid player
Dan McCullers- barely plays


so, since we cant develop on defense other than a handful in a decade, we are forced to keep guys like Foote, Keisel, Harrison, Troy, Clark, who we all love, but face it, were well passed their prime and still starting...at the expense of the ones I listed.

on offense, the can develop me into an all pro.  guys off the street produce on offense.  on defense, its not there and hasn't been for years.

and yes I was wrong, I though Bell had a minor surgery after his injury last year. my bad. doesn't change my view.

jasom woirldsheezy

steelers5895 wrote:

we can't develop defensive talent.  two guys (Tuitt and Heyward) in 10 years?  lets face it, how many All pros did Timmons get in his career? how many game changing plays?  not as many as other mid first rd picks should.  

William Gay- continually torched, was let go and then brought back because we cant develop DBs
Bryant McFadden- same as above- not sure who got torched more in Super Bowl 45 - him or Gay
Cortez Allen- enough said
Ryan Mundy- useless and gone
Shamarko Thomas- who we traded a third to move up to get- no more than special teams- average there too
Antwan Blake- below average
Keenan Lewis- played at a high level in his contract year and went elsewhere- took 3 years for him to produce
Curtis Brown- useless


Lamaar Woodley- good start- faded
Lawrence Timmons- never an all pro
Stevenson Sylvestor- useless
Jason Worilds- one good year
Ryan Shazier- missed 11 games first 2 years- and we have to call him out to play at the level he should?
Jarvis Jones- Bust
Bud Dupree- too early but looked more like Jones than an elite pass rushing star
Vince Williams- low draft pick over performing
Sean Spence- overcame bad injuries- no major impact since healthy

Cameron Heyward- Hit
Stephon Tuitt- Hit
Ziggy Hood- Miss
Stephen McClendon- good solid player
Dan McCullers- barely plays


so, since we cant develop on defense other than a handful in a decade, we are forced to keep guys like Foote, Keisel, Harrison, Troy, Clark, who we all love, but face it, were well passed their prime and still starting...at the expense of the ones I listed.

on offense, the can develop me into an all pro.  guys off the street produce on offense.  on defense, its not there and hasn't been for years.

and yes I was wrong, I though Bell had a minor surgery after his injury last year.  my bad. doesn't change my view.

Buddha Bus wrote:

steelers5895 wrote:

we can't develop defensive talent.  two guys (Tuitt and Heyward) in 10 years?  lets face it, how many All pros did Timmons get in his career? how many game changing plays?  not as many as other mid first rd picks should.  

William Gay- continually torched, was let go and then brought back because we cant develop DBs
Bryant McFadden- same as above- not sure who got torched more in Super Bowl 45 - him or Gay
Cortez Allen- enough said
Ryan Mundy- useless and gone
Shamarko Thomas- who we traded a third to move up to get- no more than special teams- average there too
Antwan Blake- below average
Keenan Lewis- played at a high level in his contract year and went elsewhere- took 3 years for him to produce
Curtis Brown- useless


Lamaar Woodley- good start- faded
Lawrence Timmons- never an all pro
Stevenson Sylvestor- useless
Jason Worilds- one good year
Ryan Shazier- missed 11 games first 2 years- and we have to call him out to play at the level he should?
Jarvis Jones- Bust
Bud Dupree- too early but looked more like Jones than an elite pass rushing star
Vince Williams- low draft pick over performing
Sean Spence- overcame bad injuries- no major impact since healthy

Cameron Heyward- Hit
Stephon Tuitt- Hit
Ziggy Hood- Miss
Stephen McClendon- good solid player
Dan McCullers- barely plays


so, since we cant develop on defense other than a handful in a decade, we are forced to keep guys like Foote, Keisel, Harrison, Troy, Clark, who we all love, but face it, were well passed their prime and still starting...at the expense of the ones I listed.

on offense, the can develop me into an all pro.  guys off the street produce on offense.  on defense, its not there and hasn't been for years.

and yes I was wrong, I though Bell had a minor surgery after his injury last year.  my bad. doesn't change my view.

MMMmmmmm.....I love anal beaver secretions!

Oh shit....I sound a little like Jon.

Is loving anal beaver secretions better or worse than taking showers with dogs?

pczach wrote:

Buddha Bus wrote:

steelers5895 wrote:

we can't develop defensive talent.  two guys (Tuitt and Heyward) in 10 years?  lets face it, how many All pros did Timmons get in his career? how many game changing plays?  not as many as other mid first rd picks should.  

William Gay- continually torched, was let go and then brought back because we cant develop DBs
Bryant McFadden- same as above- not sure who got torched more in Super Bowl 45 - him or Gay
Cortez Allen- enough said
Ryan Mundy- useless and gone
Shamarko Thomas- who we traded a third to move up to get- no more than special teams- average there too
Antwan Blake- below average
Keenan Lewis- played at a high level in his contract year and went elsewhere- took 3 years for him to produce
Curtis Brown- useless


Lamaar Woodley- good start- faded
Lawrence Timmons- never an all pro
Stevenson Sylvestor- useless
Jason Worilds- one good year
Ryan Shazier- missed 11 games first 2 years- and we have to call him out to play at the level he should?
Jarvis Jones- Bust
Bud Dupree- too early but looked more like Jones than an elite pass rushing star
Vince Williams- low draft pick over performing
Sean Spence- overcame bad injuries- no major impact since healthy

Cameron Heyward- Hit
Stephon Tuitt- Hit
Ziggy Hood- Miss
Stephen McClendon- good solid player
Dan McCullers- barely plays


so, since we cant develop on defense other than a handful in a decade, we are forced to keep guys like Foote, Keisel, Harrison, Troy, Clark, who we all love, but face it, were well passed their prime and still starting...at the expense of the ones I listed.

on offense, the can develop me into an all pro.  guys off the street produce on offense.  on defense, its not there and hasn't been for years.

and yes I was wrong, I though Bell had a minor surgery after his injury last year.  my bad. doesn't change my view.

MMMmmmmm.....I love anal beaver secretions!

Oh shit....I sound a little like Jon.

Is loving anal beaver secretions better or worse than taking showers with dogs?

Better, considering the other involves a naked Ravens fan.

i forgot how silly offseason threads can get.

Glad the beavers finally showed up.

This thread was going nowhere until they arrived.

Fire Arians wrote:

I just spit up my coffee laughing from watching this.

FrancoLambert wrote:

Fire Arians wrote:

I just spit up my coffee laughing from watching this.    

What's the original source of that?

Vis wrote:

FrancoLambert wrote:

Fire Arians wrote:

I just spit up my coffee laughing from watching this.    

What's the original source of that?

I believe it's a Jerry Lewis flick.

EDIT: Looks like a movie of his called "Sailor Beware".

Vis wrote:

FrancoLambert wrote:

Fire Arians wrote:

I just spit up my coffee laughing from watching this.    

What's the original source of that?

I'm pretty sure it's a Jerry Lewis movie, but can't remember

Buddha Bus wrote:

I believe it's a Jerry Lewis flick.

gotta love it. sarcasm, insults but no one actually came back with anything to say its wrong.

I forgot, all steelers are the greatest ever and everyone else sucks and if you dare say anything about a steeler then you must not be a fan.

I actually forgot why I stopped posting, now I remember. Most of My fellow steeler fans are really dumb and contribute nothing.

oh and to the dope who likes to complain about off season threads, uh, what else do you want to talk about? why not have some fun, throw some odd things out there to generate discussion?

jeez what losers

steelers5895 wrote:

gotta love it.  sarcasm, insults but no one actually came back with anything to say its wrong.  

I forgot, all steelers are the greatest ever and everyone else sucks and if you dare say anything about a steeler then you must not be a fan.  

I actually forgot why I stopped posting, now I remember.  Most of My fellow steeler fans are really dumb and contribute nothing.

oh and to the dope who likes to complain about off season threads, uh, what else do you want to talk about?  why not have some fun, throw some odd things out there to generate discussion?  

jeez what losers

Well... that didn't take long.

Buddha Bus wrote:

steelers5895 wrote:

gotta love it.  sarcasm, insults but no one actually came back with anything to say its wrong.  

I forgot, all steelers are the greatest ever and everyone else sucks and if you dare say anything about a steeler then you must not be a fan.  

I actually forgot why I stopped posting, now I remember.  Most of My fellow steeler fans are really dumb and contribute nothing.

oh and to the dope who likes to complain about off season threads, uh, what else do you want to talk about?  why not have some fun, throw some odd things out there to generate discussion?  

jeez what losers

Well... that didn't take long.

That's what she said!

steelers5895 wrote:

gotta love it.  sarcasm, insults but no one actually came back with anything to say its wrong.  

I forgot, all steelers are the greatest ever and everyone else sucks and if you dare say anything about a steeler then you must not be a fan.  

I actually forgot why I stopped posting, now I remember.  Most of My fellow steeler fans are really dumb and contribute nothing.

oh and to the dope who likes to complain about off season threads, uh, what else do you want to talk about?  why not have some fun, throw some odd things out there to generate discussion?  

jeez what losers

Maybe you should examine your own positions on things.

There are a lot of knowledgeable fans at this forum. Calling people here dopes, dumb, losers, and saying that most fans contribute nothing is simply ridiculous and immature. The reason not many people are agreeing with you is not because they are dopes, dumb, or losers. Your points haven't been making much sense. When you don't acknowledge the points others make that explain why they feel differently than you, you come up with more points that don't make a ton of sense, rather than absorbing good information and adjusting your position.

After you continue to challenge people to prove you wrong because you will not admit defeat, you get angry when everybody uses sarcasm to mock your comments because you think if you just keep typing your point louder.....it will change everyone's opinion. It doesn't.

You now have roughly 20 posts, and you have already turned on everyone here, and have resorted to name calling. Way to make your point and show class. Yet you think there is something wrong with everyone else.

Think about that for a second, and try again.

I would like to add:

I am not a loser!