Brady vs. Steelers week one

tony hipchest wrote:

I will reiterate that there is no argument here.  I am right, and you have been proven to be wrong.  I have the Wells report, the NFL rulebook, and precedent set by the NFL Commissioner backing me.  Thats all I need.  You cant argue that.

I dont know what agenda you are on, what propoganda you are trying to push or snake oil you are trying to sell, but if you are going to completely skirt the issue and confuse the American justice system vs. a private company enforcing their own rules, shouldnt you atleast be from America and have a full understanding of the courts of law?

I get that you got caught speaking out of turn, yet you still refuse to see the forest beyond the trees.

Roger Goodell has painted himself into a corner where he almost has togo into spin and damage control mode just like after his 2 game suspension of Ray Rice backfired.  That gaffe had direct impact of his new rules and enforcement of them in regards to violations of Adrian Peterson, Bell, and Greg Hardy.

It doesnt matter if Shady McCoy is a dumbass and M. Lynch is a dickhead.  Thier comments still carry weight and move the needle of public perception.

It doesnt matter if Goodell always gets boo'd.  He could care less, until it starts impacting ratings of his 3 day money grab extravaganza.

lol. I mean... this is just... lol?

I've never once tried to argue the NFL has to follow the justice system in punishing its players. This is on the first page of this thread. I don't know how to make it more clear to you. It isn't my problem if you choose to see an argument that isn't there. Posts 11 and 13 - read up.

I simply said I couldn't see it happening because the NFL, above all, is a business. Suspending the face of that business against a team like the Steelers in the first game of the season after they won the Super Bowl seemed unlikely to me. I had the assumption the NFLPA would fight back against the NFL because of the language used, but it turns out the NFL chose the language used very carefully. I also made reference to this on the first page, but reading is hard.

I'm trying to push propaganda. lol. Ok.

I'm not even arguing the bolded part.

Their comments aren't going to move the needle on anything because they're complete and utter horseshit. McCoy has already been unanimously laughed at for his race comments regarding Chip Kelly. McCoy said something stupid, was caught saying something stupid, and fans have moved on because it was something stupid. Again, I don't know the point you were trying to make with Ray Farmer being black and thus being punished harsher than Brady and Kraft are going to be.

Aaaaand we're done because we're going in circles. Let's just leave it at this: I've never tried to argue the NFL couldn't suspend a player because of the lack of evidence in a court room. Clear? Clear.

Here is the comment from Tom's agent, via Mike Garafolo on Twitter.

"The Wells report, with all due respect, is a significant and terrible disappointment. It’s omission of key facts and lines of inquiry suggest the investigators reached a conclusion first, and then determined so-called facts later. One item alone taints this entire report. What does it say about the league office’s protocols and ethics when it allows one team to tip it off to an issue prior to a championship game, and no league officials or game officials notified the Patriots** of the same issue prior to the game? This suggests it may be more probable than not that the league cooperated with the Colts in perpetrating a sting operation. The Wells report buries this issue in a footnote on page 46 without any further elaboration. The league is a significant client of the investigators' law firm; it appears to be a rich source of billings and media exposure based on content in the law firm's website. This was not an independent investigation and the contents of the report bear that out – all one has to do is read closely and critically, as opposed to simply reading headlines. The investigators' assumptions and inferences are easily debunked or subject to multiple interpretations. Much of the report’s vulnerabilities are buried in the footnotes, which is a common legal writing tactic. It is a sad day for the league as it has abdicated the resolution of football-specific issues to people who don’t understand the context or culture of the sport. I was physically present for my client’s interview. I have verbatim notes of the interview. Tom made himself available for nearly an entire day and patiently answered every question. It was clear to me the investigators had limited understanding of professional football. For reasons unknown, the Wells report omitted nearly all of Tom’s testimony, most of which was critical because it would have provided this report with the context that it lacks. Mr. Wells promised back in January to share the results of this investigation publicly, so why not follow through and make public all of the information gathered and let the public draw its own conclusions? This report contains significant and tragic flaws, and it is common knowledge in the legal industry that reports like this generally are written for the benefit of the purchaser."

It reads like serious damage control.

His agent is butthurt because the Patriots* weren't warned prior to testing. What fucking planet does this guy live on?

"Yo, Tom, stop deflating balls for a few days, or get some backups or something. We're gonna have to bullshit a test for you guys."

Tom also refused to cooperate during the interview. He refused to show the texts that could have provided evidence, which alone could net him a suspension under NFL policy.

Bane wrote:

His agent is butthurt because the Patriots** weren't warned prior to testing. What fucking planet does this guy live on?

I saw that too. Little bit crazy.

Sting operation? Are you kidding me? And Bane's right, Tom refused to cooperate. And as I said I think the reason for that is he knew the texts were damning to him. You know if Brady's agent wants his client's integrity to stop being attacked, he might want to talk to his client because Brady himself is bringing this all on himself. I highly doubt Wells has some great vendetta against the Pats* and Brady and even if he doesn't like the Patriots* can be professional enough to be impartial in his report judging by his past history of representing political clients across the political spectrum.

FanSince72 wrote:

Some people see arrogance while others see it more as pushing the envelope.

You'll never know how far you can go until you find out where the boundaries are.
Successful people tend to push against boundaries more often than most other people.

I admire that.

Criminals also tend to push against boundaries more often than most other people - the incompetent ones get caught - do you admire them as well?

As far as "boundary pushers" go, Ed B. of the P-G nails the comparison

Patriots* Are Nixon of the NFL

Good morning,


--- That is now two convictions for the Patriots* for cheating. One more and the three-strikes-and-your-out rule should prevail and they should join their tight end in the pokey down the road.

--- Robert Kraft’s outburst against the NFL is laughable. First, in January, he said the NFL should apologize if investigators found no evidence that the footballs were intentionally deflated for what the Patriots* “have had to endure this past week” before playng in the Super Bowl. Should that be a written apology, Bob, or is the Wells Report enough?

And then after reading that report, Kraft came to an entirely different opinion about who did what to what than just about every other fooball person and fan not living in New England: The Patriots* did nothing wrong. Again.

--- Maybe not all of the Patriots* did anything wrong, maybe Kraft knew nothing about what was going on. It is hard to believe that micro-managing coach Bill Belichick knew nothing, but even if he did not, at least three Patriots* employees knew and one of them is named Tom Brady. They worked for the Patriots* and cheated to try to get an edge.

--- Robert Kraft should hire Louis Freeh to do his own internal report on the matter. He’ll get out the facts, for sure.

--- Patriots* fans, of course, will point to the lopsided score run up by their favorite team in the second half against the Colts in that AFC championship game after the balls were re-inflated by the officials at halftime. This is supposed to prove what? That they did not need to cheat to beat the Colts? True, but it does not erase the fact they DID cheat, just as they did with Spygate.

Richard Nixon did not need to cheat in 1972 to beat McGovern either but he did, he got caught and he paid a big price. Watergate. It was the start of all the Gates.

--- Bill Belichick or Tom Brady should stand at the podium and announce “I am not a crook.’’

--- Do not think for a minute that the AFC championship game was the only time Brady had those boys deflate footballs. Coaches on other NFL teams can tell you many times all of the shady goings on that occur when they play in New England, including the sudden loss of radio communications.

--- The NCAA calls it lack of institutional control. It’s time the NFL hit the Patriots* with the same and issues strict punishment. Loss of draft picks, heavy fines and at least a two-game suspension for Brady. What, they did not come up with solid proof against Brady? They had none against Ben Roethlisberger either and it did not stop Roger Goodell from giving him a four-game suspension.

http://sportsblogs.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers-steelers-blog/2015/05/07/Patriots*-Are-Nixon-of-the-NFL/stories/201505070002

Atlanta Dan wrote:

--- Maybe not all of the Patriots** did anything wrong, maybe Kraft knew nothing about what was going on. It is hard to believe that micro-managing coach Bill Belichick knew nothing, but even if he did not, at least three Patriots** employees knew and one of them is named Tom Brady. They worked for the Patriots** and cheated to try to get an edge.

This is what gets me though -- isn't ignorance not an excuse? Bill can't plead out and say he knew nothing was happening (which I find extremely hard to believe) when the NFL already has a policy on this sort of thing.

Plus.......... let's not forget that it was the AFC Championship game.

DesertSteel wrote:

Plus.......... let's not forget that it was the AFC Championship game.

Absolutely. People scoff and say they won by a big margin anyway. That's besides the point.

SteelersCanada wrote:

Here is the comment from Tom's agent, via Mike Garafolo on Twitter....

It reads like serious damage control.

Given statements in the report like this no wonder

We note that Jastremski’s statements to McNally concerning Brady are in the nature of statements made by a co-conspirator during and in furtherance of a conspiracy, which would be admissible under Rule 801(d)(2)(E) of the Federal Rules of Evidence.

http://deadspin.com/tom-brady-threw-those-poor-ball-deflating-jamokes-under-1702608069

But noted legal scholar Pete Prisco says we are only dealing with "circumstantial" evidence - so Ted Wells and his colleagues at Paul Weiss need to wise up to what constitutes evidence

Atlanta Dan wrote:

SteelersCanada wrote:

Here is the comment from Tom's agent, via Mike Garafolo on Twitter....

It reads like serious damage control.

Given statements in the report like this no wonder  

We note that Jastremski’s statements to McNally concerning Brady are in the nature of statements made by a co-conspirator during and in furtherance of a conspiracy, which would be admissible under Rule 801(d)(2)(E) of the Federal Rules of Evidence.

http://deadspin.com/tom-brady-threw-those-poor-ball-deflating-jamokes-under-1702608069

But noted legal scholar Pete Prisco says we are only dealing with "circumstantial" evidence - so Ted Wells and his colleagues at Paul Weiss need to wise up to what constitutes evidence

Brady is a scumbag. I wouldn't be shocked if he cheats on Giselle too given his fondness for cheating.

ImmaculateGreenePolamalu wrote:

Brady is a scumbag. I wouldn't be shocked if he cheats on Giselle too given his fondness for cheating.

He left Bridget Moynahan after knocking her up for Giselle. Once a cheater always a cheater.

SteelersCanada wrote:

Atlanta Dan wrote:

--- Maybe not all of the Patriots*** did anything wrong, maybe Kraft knew nothing about what was going on. It is hard to believe that micro-managing coach Bill Belichick knew nothing, but even if he did not, at least three Patriots*** employees knew and one of them is named Tom Brady. They worked for the Patriots*** and cheated to try to get an edge.

This is what gets me though -- isn't ignorance not an excuse? Bill can't plead out and say he knew nothing was happening (which I find extremely hard to believe) when the NFL already has a policy on this sort of thing.

Just ask Sean Payton about being ignorant of shady practices on his football team. How did that work out for him - 1 year suspension.

Atlanta Dan wrote:

As far as "boundary pushers" go, Ed B. of the P-G nails the comparison

Patriots** Are Nixon of the NFL

[i]Good morning,

--- Do not think for a minute that the AFC championship game was the only time Brady had those boys deflate footballs. Coaches on other NFL teams can tell you many times all of the shady goings on that occur when they play in New England, including the sudden loss of radio communications.

I've stated before that I think the deflation of footballs started after the Tuck Rule. Something just tells me he figured that he wouldn't have dropped that ball if it had a little less air in it.

JonM229 wrote:

ImmaculateGreenePolamalu wrote:

Brady is a scumbag. I wouldn't be shocked if he cheats on Giselle too given his fondness for cheating.

He left Bridget Moynahan after knocking her up for Giselle.  Once a cheater always a cheater.

Yeah I love to point that out when the Patriots* fans I know act like Tom's this consummate gentleman and boy next door. I won't lie to you and tell you Ben Roethlisberger is that way but I also resent the hell out of Tom Brady being made out to be the boy to bring home to Mom and Dad when he's nothing but a cheating dirtbag on and off the field.

kirklandrules wrote:

Atlanta Dan wrote:

As far as "boundary pushers" go, Ed B. of the P-G nails the comparison

Patriots*** Are Nixon of the NFL

[i]Good morning,

--- Do not think for a minute that the AFC championship game was the only time Brady had those boys deflate footballs. Coaches on other NFL teams can tell you many times all of the shady goings on that occur when they play in New England, including the sudden loss of radio communications.

I've stated before that I think the deflation of footballs started after the Tuck Rule. Something just tells me he figured that he wouldn't have dropped that ball if it had a little less air in it.

It wouldn't surprise me honestly Kirk. This definitely wasn't the first time and the texts support that. McNally was calling himself the deflator as early as the spring of 2014. I mean I am sorry. I know scouts do miss on talents from time to time and our own James Harrison is proof of that but how Tom Brady went from 6th round draft pick and a decent enough QB when NE had a stout D to GOAT QB OF ALL TIME, BETTER THAN MONTANA OR JOHNNY U has me really wondering about how much of these shannigans have been going around Tom from the start. As I said, the margin between being a great NFL QB and a bust is much closer than a bust and you or me is. So yeah I think Tom Terrific is a bit of a fraud. I have no qualms whatsoever saying that.

JonM229 wrote:

ImmaculateGreenePolamalu wrote:

Brady is a scumbag. I wouldn't be shocked if he cheats on Giselle too given his fondness for cheating.

He left Bridget Moynahan after knocking her up for Giselle.  Once a cheater always a cheater.

He was just trading up, right?

ImmaculateGreenePolamalu wrote:

I mean I am sorry. I know scouts do miss on talents from time to time and our own James Harrison is proof of that but how Tom Brady went from 6th round draft pick and a decent enough QB when NE had a stout D to GOAT QB OF ALL TIME, BETTER THAN MONTANA OR JOHNNY U has me really wondering about how much of these shannigans have been going around Tom from the start. As I said, the margin between being a great NFL QB and a bust is much closer than a bust and you or me is. So yeah I think Tom Terrific is a bit of a fraud. I have no qualms whatsoever saying that.

You nailed it Immaculate! If deflating footballs prevented over the course of a season 3 interceptions, 4 fumbles and allowed the receivers to catch 15 passes they may have otherwise dropped ... NE misses more than one year's worth of playoffs. Fortunately, they play in a very weak division, but still, the lack of turnovers and dropped passes by those cheaters results in wins that normally wouldn't occur. As Bill Cowher said, it's a fine line between winning and losing in the NFL. As Ed B. mentions, they got caught deflating footballs and visiting teams have had complaints about other "funny" deals when playing in NE. I think there's a culture of cheating by that organization that goes beyond the normal "looking for a competitive advantage".

Heh speaking of cheats. It's worth pointing out that Belichick was named as the other man in a divorce case. And for all that talk about how Robert Kraft loved his late wife and everything was dedicated to her. He went straight for women young enough to be his granddaughter at his wife's passing. It's a free country after all but I can't imagine The Chief doing that after his wife passed away. They're a tacky organization who maybe once upon a time were a scrappy underdog tale but truthfully I hate this team more than I do the Ravens or Cowboys or even the Yankees in all of sports. I really do and I don't care if I come off petty or jealous. They've earned the hate and despite what their dipshit fans say it's not because they win. I hated them much more in the past ten years after their previous SB win than I had when they were winning.

kirklandrules wrote:

ImmaculateGreenePolamalu wrote:

I mean I am sorry. I know scouts do miss on talents from time to time and our own James Harrison is proof of that but how Tom Brady went from 6th round draft pick and a decent enough QB when NE had a stout D to GOAT QB OF ALL TIME, BETTER THAN MONTANA OR JOHNNY U has me really wondering about how much of these shannigans have been going around Tom from the start. As I said, the margin between being a great NFL QB and a bust is much closer than a bust and you or me is. So yeah I think Tom Terrific is a bit of a fraud. I have no qualms whatsoever saying that.

You nailed it Immaculate! If deflating footballs prevented over the course of a season 3 interceptions, 4 fumbles and allowed the receivers to catch 15 passes they may have otherwise dropped ... NE misses more than one year's worth of playoffs. Fortunately, they play in a very weak division, but still, the lack of turnovers and dropped passes by those cheaters results in wins that normally wouldn't occur. As Bill Cowher said, it's a fine line between winning and losing in the NFL. As Ed B. mentions, they got caught deflating footballs and visiting teams have had complaints about other "funny" deals when playing in NE. I think there's a culture of cheating by that organization that goes beyond the normal "looking for a competitive advantage".

I mean one play is the difference in one game and one game can be the difference between a one seed and in some cases not even making the playoffs at all. Cowher's right on the money. There is a fine line between losing and winning in this league. Even a megabust like Jemarcus Russell or Ryan Leaf is closer to Peyton Manning than he is a lay person and it's not even close. And good point about other teams too. I really think this has been going on a longtime for the Pats*. I really do and I think it should taint them and be brought up if people want to liken them to the 70's Steelers, 80's Niners, or the 90's Cowboys.

JonM229 wrote:

ImmaculateGreenePolamalu wrote:

Brady is a scumbag. I wouldn't be shocked if he cheats on Giselle too given his fondness for cheating.

He left Bridget Moynahan after knocking her up for Giselle.  Once a cheater always a cheater.

Nah, I think she'd beat the crap out of him. Sorry guys, but imo, Giselle is more manly than he is.

Atlanta Dan wrote:

FanSince72 wrote:

Some people see arrogance while others see it more as pushing the envelope.

You'll never know how far you can go until you find out where the boundaries are.
Successful people tend to push against boundaries more often than most other people.

I admire that.

Criminals also tend to push against boundaries more often than most other people - the incompetent ones get caught - do you admire them as well?

As far as "boundary pushers" go, Ed B. of the P-G nails the comparison

Patriots** Are Nixon of the NFL

Good morning,


--- That is now two convictions for the Patriots** for cheating. One more and the three-strikes-and-your-out rule should prevail and they should join their tight end in the pokey down the road.

--- Robert Kraft’s outburst against the NFL is laughable. First, in January, he said the NFL should apologize if investigators found no evidence that the footballs were intentionally deflated for what the Patriots** “have had to endure this past week” before playng in the Super Bowl. Should that be a written apology, Bob, or is the Wells Report enough?

And then after reading that report, Kraft came to an entirely different opinion about who did what to what than just about every other fooball person and fan not living in New England: The Patriots** did nothing wrong. Again.

--- Maybe not all of the Patriots** did anything wrong, maybe Kraft knew nothing about what was going on. It is hard to believe that micro-managing coach Bill Belichick knew nothing, but even if he did not, at least three Patriots** employees knew and one of them is named Tom Brady. They worked for the Patriots** and cheated to try to get an edge.

--- Robert Kraft should hire Louis Freeh to do his own internal report on the matter. He’ll get out the facts, for sure.

--- Patriots** fans, of course, will point to the lopsided score run up by their favorite team in the second half against the Colts in that AFC championship game after the balls were re-inflated by the officials at halftime. This is supposed to prove what? That they did not need to cheat to beat the Colts? True, but it does not erase the fact they DID cheat, just as they did with Spygate.

Richard Nixon did not need to cheat in 1972 to beat McGovern either but he did, he got caught and he paid a big price. Watergate. It was the start of all the Gates.

--- Bill Belichick or Tom Brady should stand at the podium and announce “I am not a crook.’’

--- Do not think for a minute that the AFC championship game was the only time Brady had those boys deflate footballs. Coaches on other NFL teams can tell you many times all of the shady goings on that occur when they play in New England, including the sudden loss of radio communications.

--- The NCAA calls it lack of institutional control. It’s time the NFL hit the Patriots** with the same and issues strict punishment. Loss of draft picks, heavy fines and at least a two-game suspension for Brady. What, they did not come up with solid proof against Brady? They had none against Ben Roethlisberger either and it did not stop Roger Goodell from giving him a four-game suspension.

http://sportsblogs.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers-steelers-blog/2015/05/07/Patriots**-Are-Nixon-of-the-NFL/stories/201505070002

How dare Ed B. Bring up big bens suspension in the same breath of tom bradys rules violation. Was he not warned about the "optics" (fancy new word for semantics)?

Gingerchip wrote:

JonM229 wrote:

ImmaculateGreenePolamalu wrote:

Brady is a scumbag. I wouldn't be shocked if he cheats on Giselle too given his fondness for cheating.

He left Bridget Moynahan after knocking her up for Giselle.  Once a cheater always a cheater.

Nah, I think she'd beat the crap out of him.  Sorry guys, but imo, Giselle is more manly than he is.

I would take Bridget Moynahan over Gisele any day of the week. (Although, I would not kick Gisele out of bed either.)