Roethlisberger hurting after big hit

SteelersYak wrote:

mrcrash wrote:

Now with Haley?  It's the complete opposite.  They try to run, they get behind, and then when that doesn't work they expect Ben and the WR's to save them in the final 15 minutes.  

We got off to a pretty fast start against the Browns

Absolutely. And then what happened?

The same damn thing that used to happen long before Arians was OC (And what I said on WEDNESDAY BEFORE OUR FIRST GAME vs. the Browns) of this team.

They'd shut it down, they try to run, fail at it, and then the defense sucks, and Ben saved them.

Have you ever played or coached organized football? I'll even take video games at this point.

Football 101 Why you run the ball with a lead:
1. kills clock
2. it's an aggressive offense from a blocking standpoint
3. less chance for your QB to get hurt.

mrcrash wrote:

The DIFFERENCE?  When Arians was here, and Whiz, they'd start fast with Ben, get leads.

In Ben's first few seasons with Whiz, you think they started fast with Ben? And you accuse ME of not watching the games?

Under Whiz, one of the reasons Ben wasn't widely regarded as an elite quarterback is because he was viewed as nothing more than a game manager. The year they went to the Super Bowl, Ben threw only 268 passes all season.

mrcrash wrote:

Watch their games.  Ben was dominant in the first quarter when he showed up.  They would just crush teams early with big plays in the air.

THEN they would run the ball.  

Arians did that too when he took over for Whiz.

Under Whiz??? What games were you watching?
Most of our big plays were gadget plays (remember Randle El to Ward in the Super Bowl?)

One of the reasons a lot of fans liked Arians early is because we finally started throwing the ball downfield. And Ben was no longer widely regarded as just a game manager.

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In Ben's first few seasons with Whiz, you think they started fast with Ben? And you accuse ME of not watching the games?

In Ben's first two regular seasons with Whiz, 25 starts, he threw 32 touchdown passes.  

14 of those 32, almost half, came in the first quarter.  

22 of those 32, 68%, came in the first half.  

If that's not starting fast, and passing early, what would you call it?  

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Under Whiz, one of the reasons Ben wasn't widely regarded as an elite quarterback is because he was viewed as nothing more than a game manager.

By idiots who don't watch them play.  They'd watch Brady, they'd watch Peyton, then they'd look at the Steelers box score and assume based on attempts.  

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The year they went to the Super Bowl, Ben threw only 268 passes all season.

He also missed four regular season games.  In 16 total games that season?  Here are Ben's numbers, in his 2nd year in the league, and won a ring:

226 of 361 (62% ) for 3188 yards (8.3 YPA) for 24 TDS 12 INTS, 99.3 QB rating 5 rush tds = 29 total TDs

To compare here are 2001 Tom Brady's numbers in 18 total games, also his 2nd year in the league, and won a ring:

324 of 510 (63%) for 3415 yards (6.9 YPA) for 19 TDS 13 INTS, 84.7 QB rating 1 rush td = 20 total TDs

Ben is almost a yard and a half better in YPA, 15 points better in QB rating, and has 9 more total TDs despite playing in two less games.

I did Brady a favor by comparing their whole seasons, if I did it just by post season it wouldn't even be close.

Just who was the game manager of the two?  It sure as hell wasn't Ben.  

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One of the reasons a lot of fans liked Arians early is because we finally started throwing the ball downfield.

Ben was #2 in the NFL in yards per attempt in 2004.  Plaxico Burress was #2 the NFL in yards per catch. Bruce Arians was not the OC, Whiz was.

Ben was #1 in the NFL in yards per attempt in 2005.  The year they won the Super Bowl. Bruce Arians was not the OC, Whiz was.

In Ben's first two regular seasons?  Ben threw 75 passes that traveled at least 21 yards in the air.  

To compare, in Haley's 29 games with him, Ben has thrown 109 passes that traveled at least 21 yards in the air.  

Now, take into consideration that Ben threw 563 passes in 2004-2005 for Whiz, and has thrown 1033 passes (470 more) in 2012-2013 for Haley, just who had Ben throwing down field, and who hasn't?

Started throwing down field once Arians took over?  No.  They started throwing down field the MINUTE Ben was behind center, with Whiz as his OC.  

Anything else?

mrcrash wrote:

What problems?

Wow, I'm sure Wally could produce over a thousand posts during BA's tenure that will help you understand what problems the fans saw with his philosophy. Hey, I admit that I wasn't his biggest supporter, but I'll also acknowledge that he was an instrumental part of this team winning 1 Super Bowl and making it to another (even though he did have a far stronger core group of players to relay on).

mrcrash wrote:

The running game only became a problem once Todd Haley showed up.  The offense only became one dimensional once Todd Haley showed up.

Huh        

mrcrash wrote:

There was never a problem with the run game with Arians.  The ONLY problem with the run game with Arians as far as the Rooney's are concerned is he didn't do it 45 times a game and bow down to 1975 football.  

And that's why he was fired.

Listen Mrs Arians, I know you want to defend your husband on these posts. It's a natural thing to do and I applaud your loyalty. But even Bruce acknowledged the Steelers were running poorly during his tenure and he acknowledged it several times. Just ask him tonight when you're cuddled up to him. Just ask him to explain this quote after one of his last games as OC in 2011:
"It's got to pick up for us to be where we want to be," the Steelers' offensive coordinator said Thursday. "It's not the number of carries, it's the quality of the carries. When we run it, we have to run it better."

Read more: http://triblive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_770014.html#ixzz3Dh9Oe0gD

He still didn't think they were running it well enough, all the way to the bitter end of his career in Pittsburgh! Multiple failures in short yardage and goal-line offense ... and forget about running out the clock when the Steelers had the lead in the 4th quarter.

You don't like Tackles running the TE eligible routes, how about this little tid-bit when you're bashing Haley's play calling:

"The worst game of his (BA's) career came in 2009 against Cleveland. In a -15 degree wind chill with 40+ mile per hour winds against one of the worst run defenses in the league, Arians game plan was to come out…throwing?! The Steelers ended the night running 32 pass plays and 22 running plays. Let’s recap. 40+ mph winds. -15 degrees wind chill. 32 passes. 22 runs. The Steelers lost the game 13-6. That game right there should’ve been grounds for Arians to get fired on the spot."

http://coltsauthority.com/2012-archives/the-steelers-view-of-bruce-arians.html

mrcrash wrote:

And that's why Todd Haley is here.

Correct.

mrcrash wrote:

And that's why Ben Roethlisberger won't be.

I highly doubt it.

mrcrash wrote:

You don't pay Ben Roethlisberger $20 million a year to be Mark Malone.

Ben is paid to be Ben. He's the leader of the offense and everyone understands winning will come through him. It will only happen if he stays healthy. You blamed Haley for the shot he took against the Ravens last week, but wouldn't blame BA for the shot he took against the Ravens a few years ago that broke Ben's nose because you thought it was a cheap shot (the funny thing is that your cheap shot that broke his nose didn't draw a flag and the shot the other night did).

mrcrash wrote:

You pay Bruce Gradkowski or Landry Jones $5 million a year to do it.

So you think the Steelers would be 17-17 with Bruce and Landry as your QB? You make it sounds like Haley has neutered Ben. You give no consideration to the change over in talent when considering their records (remember, BA had relatively little turn over in his tenure ... this team has continuously changed in a dramatic way under Haley).

Finally, you like to state that Haley is only here because he's a Pittsburgh boy. What about Russ Grimm who thought he had the HC job and was a local boy. Tomlin isn't a 'burgher. Neither is LeBeau. I'm not from Pittsburgh, so I really don't care where these guys are from. I just want to see my team win and I don't believe that's any different than the Rooneys, the coaches or the players.

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"It's not the number of carries, it's the quality of the carries. When we run it, we have to run it better."

And guess what?  In 2011? The Steelers had their highest yards per carry as a team IN 10 YEARS.  

If quality is the issue, wouldn't that be enough?  

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"The worst game of his (BA's) career came in 2009 against Cleveland. In a -15 degree wind chill with 40+ mile per hour winds against one of the worst run defenses in the league, Arians game plan was to come out…throwing?!

That is flat out incorrect, the Steelers had the ball with the wind at their back to start that game:

1st drive: Run run pass = punt

2nd drive: Run run pass = punt

3rd drive: Pass, pass, run, pass, pass, pass, pass, run, pass, pass.

4th drive:  Run run pass = punt

_________________________________

If anything Arians did it backwards.  With the wind at his back to start the game, he should have been aggressive from the start, go up 7-0, maybe 10-0, and the hapless Browns then quit.

But Arians came out and did what people wanted on three of their first four drives.  Try to run the ball.  

And he still gets blamed for it.  

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I highly doubt it.

Tell me that when he's Arizona.  

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Ben is paid to be Ben.

Ben isn't Ben anymore.  And he hasn't been Ben since Art II, that football expert, told him how to change how he plays.  Then, Ben was forbidden in 2012 by a college golf coach, to audible at the LOS.

And you think Ben WANTS to end his career playing for these two dimwits?  

Only one way Ben stays:  Shit can Haley, promote Fichtner to OC, hire Batch as QB coach, Art II gets the hell out of their way, stops being a coach, and reaps the rewards of winning a 3rd Super Bowl with him.

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So you think the Steelers would be 17-17 with Bruce and Landry as your QB? You make it sounds like Haley has neutered Ben.

Bruce Arians is 11-7 so far with what is left of Carson Palmer, who's obviously past his prime.  If I had to choose who would coach Landry Jones if he was starting as a Steeler between the two?  It sure as hell wouldn't be Todd Haley.  

Ben's yards per attempt, and the the way he's used are a joke since Haley got here.  

In case you missed it:

Ben was #2 in the NFL in yards per attempt in 2004.  Plaxico Burress was #2 the NFL in yards per catch. Bruce Arians was not the OC, Whiz was.

Ben was #1 in the NFL in yards per attempt in 2005.  The year they won the Super Bowl. Bruce Arians was not the OC, Whiz was.

In Ben's first two regular seasons?  Ben threw 75 passes that traveled at least 21 yards in the air.  

To compare, in Haley's 29 games with him, Ben has thrown 109 passes that traveled at least 21 yards in the air.  

Now, take into consideration that Ben threw 563 passes in 2004-2005 for Whiz, and has thrown 1033 passes (470 more) in 2012-2013 for Haley, just who had Ben throwing down field, and who hasn't?

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You blamed Haley for the shot he took against the Ravens last week, but wouldn't blame BA for the shot he took against the Ravens a few years ago that broke Ben's nose because you thought it was a cheap shot (the funny thing is that your cheap shot that broke his nose didn't draw a flag and the shot the other night did).

Don't blame BA because the Referee that night (as did many others that season) subjected Ben to a season of "prison justice" after the Georgia accusation.  Ben was cheap shotted all year, and I think got two calls all year.  Had nothing to do with the system.

Btw, noticed you didn't post this part:

Haloti Ngata drew a $15,000 fine for a hit to the face of quarterback Ben Roethlisberger during Pittsburgh's first series.

Kills the agenda, doesn't it?  

Just like Richard Seymour, he punched Ben in the face that season after a touchdown pass.  What did the NFL do?  They deemed it "fighting", which gave Seymour a lesser fine and didn't suspend him.  You know damn well that was intentional on the league's part, they gave Seymour a free shot at Ben because they were still pissed at Ben for what happened the previous March.

Roger Goodell tried to sabotage the Steelers all year by having his officials turn a blind eye to the cheap shots Ben took, and cheap shots his receivers took that year as well.  He tried all year to keep that team from winning their conference, and it failed.

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You give no consideration to the change over in talent when considering their records (remember, BA had relatively little turn over in his tenure ... this team has continuously changed in a dramatic way under Haley).

Mike Wallace YPC under Bruce Arians:

19.4

21.0

16.3

Mike Wallace YPC under Todd Haley:

13.1

Playing with the same quarterback he had with Arians.  

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Finally, you like to state that Haley is only here because he's a Pittsburgh boy. What about Russ Grimm who thought he had the HC job and was a local boy.

Had Dan not overruled Art II (who at that time was not an "owner", just a mere employee of his father) Russ Grimm would be their head coach.  

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I'm not from Pittsburgh, so I really don't care where these guys are from. I just want to see my team win and I don't believe that's any different than the Rooneys, the coaches or the players.

OWNER Art II wants to win HIS way.  They were winning, and winning a lot for 8 years.  

Then he decided that wasn't good enough anymore.  He shit-canned the OC after Joe Flacco and Tim freaking Tebow of all people humiliated Dick LeBeau, and he told a HOF QB how to play his position and hired a psycho to run the offense.  

17-17 since.

Honestly Crash, I can't follow your posts anymore. You throw out stats, then say stats don't matter because "We need to watch the games". Your stats listed about stated something about BR7's passes for TD's in the first half yadda yadda.... how do you know those weren't set up by a run, run, pass model? Play action anyone?

You can talk about the past all you want, but it is what it is: the past. At this point, you have 2 choices: you can either accept the fact that Haley is the OC (and all the other members of the team are on the team) on a game by game basis and watch the sport of football or you can keep sipping Haterade and talk about what was and what you perceive to "never will be".

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Your stats listed about stated something about BR7's passes for TD's in the first half yadda yadda.... how do you know those weren't set up by a run, run, pass model?

Sometimes yes. But most of the time it was like the first drive in Indy during the playoffs:

Pass, pass, rush, pass, rush, pass, pass, pass, rush, pass.

When Tony Dungy tried to say they were shocked how we came out throwing? Tells me he didn't watch film of our offense for the 2004 or 2005 seasons.

You call it Haterade? I'll call it reality.

You can stick your head in the sand.

I refuse to.

Reality is this team is 1-1 after week 1. Let's look at some other teams around the league:
Green Bay (a favorite in the NFC): 1-1
Seattle (defending Super Bowl Champs): 1-1
New England (always seem to be in the playoffs): 1-1
Indy (an early favorite in the AFC): 0-2
Saints (another team predicted to make the playoffs): 0-2

There are 7 teams with 2-0 records.
There are 18 teams with 1-2 records.
There are 7 teams with 0-2 records.

None of those teams have Todd Haley, and none of those teams have their owner telling a HOF QB who to play his position.

There is only 1 Todd Haley.

Did that OC tell Luck to throw the INT to end their chance to win the game?

SteelersYak wrote:

There is only 1 Todd Haley.

Did that OC tell Luck to throw the INT to end their chance to win the game?

Luck didn't thrown an interception, his receiver was grabbed coming out of his break.

If the official makes the correct call? It's first down Colts, they chew clock, kick a FG, go up 10, and the game is over.

mrcrash wrote:

SteelersYak wrote:

There is only 1 Todd Haley.

Did that OC tell Luck to throw the INT to end their chance to win the game?

Luck didn't thrown an interception, his receiver was grabbed coming out of his break.

If the official makes the correct call?  It's first down Colts, they chew clock, kick a FG, go up 10, and the game is over.  

The OC should have drawn up a better route that his WR wouldn't have been in the position to be grabbed.

SteelersYak wrote:

mrcrash wrote:

SteelersYak wrote:

There is only 1 Todd Haley.

Did that OC tell Luck to throw the INT to end their chance to win the game?

Luck didn't thrown an interception, his receiver was grabbed coming out of his break.

If the official makes the correct call?  It's first down Colts, they chew clock, kick a FG, go up 10, and the game is over.  

The OC should have drawn up a better route that his WR wouldn't have been in the position to be grabbed.

Yeah, maybe he could have had his offensive tackle running a pass pattern instead.

That would have brilliant because a measly DB wouldn't be able to hold him and if he does, there is more surface area for the ref to see the penalty.

BRILLIANT!!

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Your stats listed about stated something about BR7's passes for TD's in the first half yadda yadda.... how do you know those weren't set up by a run, run, pass model?

Psssst. The 2005 Steelers rushed for the fewest yards that season.

In the first quarter.

Why? Because Ben was too busy kicking ass during it to "establish" the run.

Neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeext?

Apparently you won't be happy until the Front Office runs things your way. I'm sorry you can't support your team regardless.

No I'm not talking about being a homer, I'm talking about looking at the game in real time. Assess the situation as is. You seem to want to automatically blame Haley, you want to blame LeBeau or some other coach.

You've been so far on Bruce Arians you could probably tell us what he's had for breakfast-lunch-dinner for the last 3 years since his departure. Sorry to burst your bubble but when opposing team's fans can call plays that BA was going to call next, his offense wasn't productive, but don't worry, as much as I disliked BA, I was still able to determine the difference between when BA was at fault and when players were at fault.

It appears that you either can't or don't want to. You're apparently pissed off that BA got released, and Haley was hired. You post remarks as if you're some damn football guru but all of I've seen is an incessant rant about how everything failing on the offense is Haley and everything failing on the defense is LeBeau.

If you're such an awesome coach, and have figured all this shite out, then why aren't you in the NFL?

Simple. You're just like the rest of us, just a Monday Morning Quarterback.

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Apparently you won't be happy until the Front Office runs things your way.

They ran it my way for 8 years.  They came out throwing with their franchise quarterback, got leads, and then ran the ball.  

Then the guy who was given 15% of a football team decided that wasn't good enough anymore.  

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If you're such an awesome coach, and have figured all this shite out, then why aren't you in the NFL?

Because unlike Art Rooney II I didn't hit the sperm lottery and was given 15% of a football team.

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Sorry to burst your bubble but when opposing team's fans can call plays that BA was going to call next, his offense wasn't productive

Actually you're confused, this tweet below, from an ESPN Denver radio host this past April:

RT @cecillammey: Defenders who played vs #Steelers last year have told me they knew what plays were coming off Haley's tendencies/formations

In 2012 (Haley's first year) we were by far, the highest rush team in the league in % of plays between the tackles.  

Anyone who's read me on message boards since they hired that idiot knows I am a proponent of 3 WR/RB/TE as our base offense.  

The ONLY TIME all last season where the backup TE's/FBs sat on the bench, and they came out in three wide as a base offense?  The Lions game, and they scored 20 first half points and would have been 24 had Miller held onto the football.  

This isn't rocket science.  Teams are watching the same games we are.  You pick things up when you see the same crap from Haley week in and week out.  

The problem here is Art wants 1975 football, and Haley prefers it.  That's the ONLY reason he's here.

Despite the fact that he's a loony as Jack Nicholson in One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest.

mrcrash wrote:

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"It's not the number of carries, it's the quality of the carries. When we run it, we have to run it better."

And guess what?  In 2011? The Steelers had their highest yards per carry as a team IN 10 YEARS.  

If quality is the issue, wouldn't that be enough?

No, they couldn't convert in short yardage to save their lives. 3rd and short, 4th and short, goalline were all miserable. Oh, and having the highest yards per carry in 10 years (most of that timespan under Arians) doesn't defend BA at all ... they ranked 9th in that category that year, which means they really sucked up to that point. Oh, and again, that quote from BA came in Dec 2011 .... you can try to defend his results all you want, but the truth is Arians even admitted at the very end that they weren't good enough.  

mrcrash wrote:

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"The worst game of his (BA's) career came in 2009 against Cleveland. In a -15 degree wind chill with 40+ mile per hour winds against one of the worst run defenses in the league, Arians game plan was to come out…throwing?!

That is flat out incorrect, the Steelers had the ball with the wind at their back to start that game:

1st drive: Run run pass = punt

2nd drive: Run run pass = punt

3rd drive: Pass, pass, run, pass, pass, pass, pass, run, pass, pass.

4th drive:  Run run pass = punt

Just for the record, it went like this:
1st drive: Run run sack = punt
1st drive: Run run sack = punt

BA wasn't able to protect his guy.

_________________________________

mrcrash wrote:

If anything Arians did it backwards.  With the wind at his back to start the game, he should have been aggressive from the start, go up 7-0, maybe 10-0, and the hapless Browns then quit.

But Arians came out and did what people wanted on three of their first four drives.  Try to run the ball.  

And he still gets blamed for it.

Yet you just argued how great their run game was that year and Cleveland's run defense sucked. BA didn't get the job done either with the run or the pass. Oh, and BA went out and did what he wanted ... don't insinuate that he was a tool and only did what people expected. He created the gameplan and they went to a pass happy attack because his play calling was predictable... and failed against a miserable team. The truth is, Cleveland sucked that year and BA laid an egg in that game. Yes, they ineffectively ran the ball the first 2 series, but how can you defend a huge passing game in those conditions against a team that couldn't stop they run? And you state that they should have thrown more, but they were ineffective in the passing game that day, so that wasn't the answer. One thing that was stated several times during BAs tenure is that they need to run better in situational football (short yardage, goalline) and run better when everyone knows your going to run (bad weather, end of games, protecting leads, etc). They never got that under BA and this game in Cleveland was typical. That weather was dictating the winner of the game would be the team that could run and stop the run ... and the less talented team won.

mrcrash wrote:

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I highly doubt it.

Tell me that when he's Arizona.

Gladly, but it aint going to happen.  

mrcrash wrote:

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Ben is paid to be Ben.

Ben isn't Ben anymore.  And he hasn't been Ben since Art II, that football expert, told him how to change how he plays.  Then, Ben was forbidden in 2012 by a college golf coach, to audible at the LOS.

And you think Ben WANTS to end his career playing for these two dimwits?  

Only one way Ben stays:  Shit can Haley, promote Fichtner to OC, hire Batch as QB coach, Art II gets the hell out of their way, stops being a coach, and reaps the rewards of winning a 3rd Super Bowl with him.

Ben is calling audibles, he and his offensive teammates were instrumental in putting together the playbook with Haley, he's getting the chance to run his no-huddle offense. In fact, all this reminds me of the early days under BA. I remember Ben complaining he couldn't audible and he was restricted in the use of the no-huddle. Hmmm, so an OC wants to make sure his gameplan will be run before turning the keys over to the QB? Sounds about right to me.

You act as if you want Ben to be another Payton Manning. But the fact is Payton is a fake. All that audible stuff is an act. Watch carefully just before he calls out his "Omaha" and you'll see him cover his right earhole with his palm and then call out the play. That's so he can hear the OC calling in the play. He does that about 20 times a game. Yet everyone hypes up the idea that Manning is a field general that calls his own plays and is just winging it. That's a load of bull. All these QBs are getting plays pumped to their helmets. Yes, they can call their own plays (audibles) if they think they see something in the defensive alignment. But Ben isn't some anomaly that's penned up by ownership ... that's just not the case.

mrcrash wrote:

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So you think the Steelers would be 17-17 with Bruce and Landry as your QB? You make it sounds like Haley has neutered Ben.

Bruce Arians is 11-7 so far with what is left of Carson Palmer, who's obviously past his prime.  If I had to choose who would coach Landry Jones if he was starting as a Steeler between the two?  It sure as hell wouldn't be Todd Haley.

Yeah, we all get that. You hate Haley. 

mrcrash wrote:

Ben's yards per attempt, and the the way he's used are a joke since Haley got here.  

In case you missed it:

Ben was #2 in the NFL in yards per attempt in 2004.  Plaxico Burress was #2 the NFL in yards per catch. Bruce Arians was not the OC, Whiz was.

Ben was #1 in the NFL in yards per attempt in 2005.  The year they won the Super Bowl. Bruce Arians was not the OC, Whiz was.

In Ben's first two regular seasons?  Ben threw 75 passes that traveled at least 21 yards in the air.  

To compare, in Haley's 29 games with him, Ben has thrown 109 passes that traveled at least 21 yards in the air.  

Now, take into consideration that Ben threw 563 passes in 2004-2005 for Whiz, and has thrown 1033 passes (470 more) in 2012-2013 for Haley, just who had Ben throwing down field, and who hasn't?

I think you're taking a long way of saying that Ben was throwing more downfield passes under Whiz than with Haley (not sure what happened to BA). But here's something to chew on:

2011 -
Total Passing -4,054 passing yards (ranked 10th)
Avg/Attempt - 7.0 (ranked 8th)
Passing TDs - 21 (ranked 16th)
Interceptions - 15 (ranked 15th - 1 being worst; 32 best)
Total Points - 325 (ranked 21st)

2013
Total Passing - 4,017 (ranked 12th)
Avg/Attempt - 6.4 (ranked 12th)
Passing TDs - 28 (ranked 9th)
Interceptions - 14 (ranked 18th - 1 being worst; 32 best)
Total Points - 379 (ranked 16th)

In regard to passing and what was produced, I really don't see a huge difference between BA's last year and Haley's second full year (hmmm, Ben almost seemed more efficient with more TDs and less INTs). Although I do like the idea that the Steelers produced more points under Haley, because that is the purpose of the offense.

mrcrash wrote:

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You blamed Haley for the shot he took against the Ravens last week, but wouldn't blame BA for the shot he took against the Ravens a few years ago that broke Ben's nose because you thought it was a cheap shot (the funny thing is that your cheap shot that broke his nose didn't draw a flag and the shot the other night did).

Don't blame BA because the Referee that night (as did many others that season) subjected Ben to a season of "prison justice" after the Georgia accusation.  Ben was cheap shotted all year, and I think got two calls all year.  Had nothing to do with the system.

Btw, noticed you didn't post this part:

Haloti Ngata drew a $15,000 fine for a hit to the face of quarterback Ben Roethlisberger during Pittsburgh's first series.

Kills the agenda, doesn't it?

No, not really. You still are blaming someone other than BA when you're QB is hit. Ben is hit (illegally) in two different games, in two different years, and you're blaming the OC for one hit but not for the other. Be consistent. My point here is, no defender should be getting their filthy paws on the QB ... regardless of who you want to blame.

mrcrash wrote:

Just like Richard Seymour, he punched Ben in the face that season after a touchdown pass.  What did the NFL do?  They deemed it "fighting", which gave Seymour a lesser fine and didn't suspend him.  You know damn well that was intentional on the league's part, they gave Seymour a free shot at Ben because they were still pissed at Ben for what happened the previous March.

Roger Goodell tried to sabotage the Steelers all year by having his officials turn a blind eye to the cheap shots Ben took, and cheap shots his receivers took that year as well.  He tried all year to keep that team from winning their conference, and it failed.

Totally agree with this point ... very obvious screw job by the commish that resulted in a man being injured more than once.

mrcrash wrote:

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Finally, you like to state that Haley is only here because he's a Pittsburgh boy. What about Russ Grimm who thought he had the HC job and was a local boy.

Had Dan not overruled Art II (who at that time was not an "owner", just a mere employee of his father) Russ Grimm would be their head coach.

No, they interviewed Tomlin because of the Rooney rule ... and loved him. And Grimm is a head coach of which NFL team? Oh, yeah, that's right, several teams had openings and passed on him as well.  Hey, I like Grimm, but I don't think he's better than Tomlin and refuse to fantasize about what it would have been like to have him as the coach (we could draw the same comparison to Joe Green and Bill Cowher).

mrcrash wrote:

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I'm not from Pittsburgh, so I really don't care where these guys are from. I just want to see my team win and I don't believe that's any different than the Rooneys, the coaches or the players.

OWNER Art II wants to win HIS way.  They were winning, and winning a lot for 8 years.  

Then he decided that wasn't good enough anymore.  He shit-canned the OC after Joe Flacco and Tim freaking Tebow of all people humiliated Dick LeBeau, and he told a HOF QB how to play his position and hired a psycho to run the offense.  

17-17 since.

BA was canned because he was inept in short yardage, goal-line and bad weather and ultimately couldn't score points when the Steelers needed it most. The owner asked for a change and didn't get it ... after several season. Sorry, but even BA knew he wasn't going to last.

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Just for the record, it went like this:
1st drive: Run run sack = punt
1st drive: Run run sack = punt

BA wasn't able to protect his guy.

You are missing the point. The article says we came out throwing, the play-calling proves that to be 100% incorrect.

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Gladly, but it aint going to happen.

Based on how Art II has treated Ben since 2011 what gives you the impression that he wants to pay him the money that it will take to keep him?

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Ben is calling audibles, he and his offensive teammates were instrumental in putting together the playbook with Haley, he's getting the chance to run his no-huddle offense.

Not in 2012 he didn't. And where was the no huddle last week?

Haley blamed the fact that they had a road game, and new receivers, for why they didn't use it.

Brown: On the team last year.

J. Brown: On the team last year.

Wheaton: On the team last year.

Those were your top three WR's Thursday night

What's his next lie going to be?

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In fact, all this reminds me of the early days under BA. I remember Ben complaining he couldn't audible

That's a lie, Ben and BA designed the entire play-book together. Terminology, plays, what Ben prefers during a game, etc. He was even instructed to call the blocking assignments for the OL when he would change a play at the LOS in 2007.

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and he was restricted in the use of the no-huddle.

Ben says every year he wants to run more no huddle. He said it this year, he said it last year, and when he's in Arizona in 2015 he'll say it then.

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You act as if you want Ben to be another Payton Manning.

Ben's better than Peyton. But one thing Peyton has always had compared to Ben is the respect from his organization.

And that is the #1 reason why he won't retire a Steeler.

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No, not really. You still are blaming someone other than BA when you're QB is hit. Ben is hit (illegally) in two different games, in two different years, and you're blaming the OC for one hit but not for the other.

I didn't blame Haley at all for the hit. All I pointed out was that in this alleged "safer" offense, Ben is still getting hit.

The difference though? Haley has also taken the big play aspect away from Ben.

If you asked Ben if he could have 3 more years of playing the way he did, from 2004-2011 or 6 more years of Todd Haley's "safer" offense? He'd take the three years, no doubt.

Ben was driving force of this offense for 8 years.

Now he's a nobody.

That's what happens when you hire a loser to run your offense.

mrcrash wrote:

Quote :

Just for the record, it went like this:
1st drive: Run run sack = punt
1st drive: Run run sack = punt

BA wasn't able to protect his guy.

 

You are missing the point.  The article says we came out throwing, the play-calling proves that to be 100% incorrect.  

You're missing the point ... in very poor weather, the Steelers couldn't run against a bad team and went Air Coryell. The result was a loss to a very bad team based on a bad game plan (or lack there of)

mrcrash wrote:

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Gladly, but it aint going to happen.  

Based on how Art II has treated Ben since 2011 what gives you the impression that he wants to pay him the money that it will take to keep him?  

Let's see how Ben has been treated since 2011.

On his contract Art II recently said:
“I met with Ben shortly before we did the Maurkice Pouncey signing (in the middle of June) just to make sure Ben understood where we were with our intentions as far as a contract extension for him,” said Rooney. “I just didn’t want him to feel like we were moving ahead with other players without any communication.

“And so I talked to Ben, and then we talked with his agent Ryan Tollner about where we are and the fact we intend on addressing Ben’s contract situation after the season, so that we could address a number of players who were going into their last year in 2014. I think Ben understands that’s our intention and the way we’d like to proceed. I think we had a good conversation.”

And Ben's response:

“It’s family,” Roethlisberger maintained. “The Pittsburgh Steelers are family, from the Rooneys down. It means a lot because there’s a lot of love from the Rooney family to the coaches to the players and the players back to the Rooneys."

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Rooney-II-on-Bens-contract-situation/d2668dac-c225-4840-ba15-be4189120888

And this from Arians:
"He's going to be a Steeler for life," Arians said. "I don't think there's any doubt."

http://arizonasports.com/40/1676627/Arizona-Cardinals-coach-Bruce-Arians-says-Ben-Roethlisberger-will-be-a-Steeler-for-life

And another quote from Arians on how his relationship with Ben started off:
"In the beginning, he didn't like me much and I didn't think all that much of him, either," Arians said, fairly giggling.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2011/01/22/Cook-Roethlisberger-Arians-come-down-in-2-part-harmony/stories/201101220137

mrcrash wrote:

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Ben is calling audibles, he and his offensive teammates were instrumental in putting together the playbook with Haley, he's getting the chance to run his no-huddle offense.

Not in 2012 he didn't.  And where was the no huddle last week?  

Haley blamed the fact that they had a road game, and new receivers, for why they didn't use it.  

Brown: On the team last year.

J. Brown: On the team last year.  

Wheaton: On the team last year.

Those were your top three WR's Thursday night  

What's his next lie going to be?

Brown: On the team last year. Correct

J. Brown: On the team last year.  Practice Squad

Wheaton: On the team last year. 6 Catches


So in essence, the #2 and #3 receivers really aren't the veterans you'd like us to think they are.

mrcrash wrote:

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In fact, all this reminds me of the early days under BA. I remember Ben complaining he couldn't audible

That's a lie, Ben and BA designed the entire play-book together.  Terminology, plays, what Ben prefers during a game, etc.  He was even instructed to call the blocking assignments for the OL when he would change a play at the LOS in 2007.  

O.k. I shouldn't have used the word "complain", but Ben wanted more authority with audibles. Ben and BA used to have side bets to see if BAs original play calls were more successful than Ben's audibles. I'll try to find the article from back then, but the purpose of those bets was Ben trying to convince BA to allow him to audible more and was hoping to prove that his calls were as successful, if not more, than BA's original playcalls. Ben has always lobbied to have more authority, even with BA. Not sure why it's a huge deal that he's doing the same thing with Haley.

mrcrash wrote:

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You act as if you want Ben to be another Payton Manning.

Ben's better than Peyton.  But one thing Peyton has always had compared to Ben is the respect from his organization.  

And that is the #1 reason why he won't retire a Steeler.

Although everything put in front of the public says the contrary. I've never read anything about Ben not feeling respected by the Steelers organization. See above quotes as reinforcement.

mrcrash wrote:

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No, not really. You still are blaming someone other than BA when you're QB is hit. Ben is hit (illegally) in two different games, in two different years, and you're blaming the OC for one hit but not for the other.

I didn't blame Haley at all for the hit.  All I pointed out was that in this alleged "safer" offense, Ben is still getting hit.

Maybe because of the o-line???

mrcrash wrote:

The difference though?  Haley has also taken the big play aspect away from Ben.  

If you asked Ben if he could have 3 more years of playing the way he did, from 2004-2011 or 6 more years of Todd Haley's "safer" offense?  He'd take the three years, no doubt.  

Ben was driving force of this offense for 8 years.  

Now he's a nobody.  

That's what happens when you hire a loser to run your offense.

I have a hard time believing Ben thinks he's a nobody and that he's not the driving force of the offense. And yes, I bet Ben would want to go back and relive the BA years, he had a much better team surrounding him. Times have changed.

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O.k. I shouldn't have used the word "complain", but Ben wanted more authority with audibles

This was before Tomlin's first game:

Steelers Notebook: Roethlisberger will make all the calls

September 8, 2007 12:00 AM

By Gerry Dulac Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Quarterback Ben Roethlisberger will do more than change plays and switch protections at the line of scrimmage this season. He will have veto power to discard plays offensive coordinator Bruce Arians has formulated for the game plan.

It will be the first time in his four seasons Roethlisberger will have such control of the offense.

"A lot of things look good to coaches," Arians said. "It's not any good if the quarterback doesn't like it."

In a given week, Arians will put in the game plan Tuesday and script the first 15 plays and third-down plays by Friday afternoon. If Roethlisberger isn't comfortable with some of the plays when he meets with Arians the night before a game, he can tell him to strike them from the game plan.

"The confidence that he approaches his business with is very satisfying to me," Arians said. "In between practices, he's working with guys on all the little details. When you're working on the little details, it kind of tells you he has a pretty good grasp of the big details."

It won't be Roethlisberger's only new duty.

Unlike past seasons when guard Alan Faneca or retired center Jeff Hartings called out the protection changes for the offensive line, Roethlisberger will handle all the calls this season, beginning tomorrow in Cleveland. Roethlisberger said he never made those calls before, which are predicated on reading defensive formations.

"He's in charge of everything," Faneca said. "We don't make any changes to anything. Everything was all on me or Jeff or Kendall [Simmons]. Not now. It's all on him."
___________________________

Care to take back that Arians didn't give Ben authority?

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I've never read anything about Ben not feeling respected by the Steelers organization.

You will when they don't sign him.  

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I have a hard time believing Ben thinks he's a nobody and that he's not the driving force of the offense. And yes, I bet Ben would want to go back and relive the BA years, he had a much better team surrounding him. Times have changed.

I'll take my chances with Ben and any three wide outs if you get out of his way and use his skills.  

The 2005 WR corps wasn't exactly the reincarnation of the 1978 Steelers, or the 1995 Steelers, and they still won the Super Bowl.  

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So in essence, the #2 and #3 receivers really aren't the veterans you'd like us to think they are.

The point, is that they weren't new.  

You want to know how dumb Todd Haley is?

They'll throw a fade pattern to 5-9 midget Lance Moore Sunday night in the red zone.  

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And another quote from Arians on how his relationship with Ben started off:
"In the beginning, he didn't like me much and I didn't think all that much of him, either," Arians said, fairly giggling.

I guess you didn't read this part?   "fairly giggling"

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And this from Arians:
"He's going to be a Steeler for life," Arians said. "I don't think there's any doubt."

He has to say that.  He says anything even HINTING that he won't you can bet your ass the Steelers file a tampering charge against him.