Roethlisberger hurting after big hit

mrcrash wrote:

Ben was #2 in the NFL in yards per attempt in 2004.  Plaxico Burress was #2 the NFL in yards per catch. Bruce Arians was not the OC, Whiz was.

Ben was #1 in the NFL in yards per attempt in 2005.  The year they won the Super Bowl. Bruce Arians was not the OC, Whiz was.

In 2004, Plax had only 35 receptions. Fewer receptions affect the stats if there are a few long receptions. If a receiver has 2 receptions, one for 5 yards and one for 45, he'd be averaging 25 yards per reception. Give him another 40 receptions and that average drops drastically.

As for Ben ranking No. 1 and No. 2 in yards per attempt, that's not evidence of a lot of downfield passes. YPA is a complex stat, and a lot of factors can influence it. A QB can be in a very conservative offense and still have a high YPA:

Yards per Attempt is a system-neutral metric. If you play in a conservative, horizontal offense, you can have a very high completion percentage, like David Carr in 2006.

http://www.footballperspective.com/yards-per-attempt-where-does-it-go-wrong/

Crash, you are trying to use stats to rewrite history. You think that in Ben's first few seasons, he was routinely dropping back and throwing the ball downfield. The stats you provided don't prove that at all. And for those of us who actually watched all the games, we know that the Steelers had a great running back and a great defense. They had a young, inexperienced quarterback who wasn't asked to win games. He was asked to hand the ball off to Bettis and not make mistakes. Although asked simply not to lose games, he did have some game-winning drives. He was fantastic his first two seasons, but your assertion that he was dropping back and throwing the ball downfield like Peyton Manning is flat-out inaccurate.  

In 2004, Ben was 14-0 as a starter in the regular season. And the Steelers were dead last in pass attempts.

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As for Ben ranking No. 1 and No. 2 in yards per attempt, that's not evidence of a lot of downfield passes.

No but this is:  

In Ben's first two regular seasons?  Ben threw 75 passes that traveled at least 21 yards in the air.  

To compare, in Haley's 29 games with him, Ben has thrown 109 passes that traveled at least 21 yards in the air.  

Now, take into consideration that Ben threw 563 passes in 2004-2005 for Whiz, and has thrown 1033 passes (470 more) in 2012-2013 for Haley, just who had Ben throwing down field, and who hasn't?

Started throwing down field once Arians took over?  No.  They started throwing down field the MINUTE Ben was behind center, with Whiz as his OC.  

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They had a young, inexperienced quarterback who wasn't asked to win games. He was asked to hand the ball off to Bettis and not make mistakes.

What a joke you are.  First you tell me I don't watch games, and you then falsely label Jerome Bettis as the feature back in Ben's first two seasons when for most of his first two seasons he was a backup first to Duce Staley and then Willie Parker.  

You sound like the 60 year old Yinzers I laugh at.

Hey Wallace I noticed you ignored this....

It's OK. We both know why.  

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In Ben's first few seasons with Whiz, you think they started fast with Ben? And you accuse ME of not watching the games?

In Ben's first two regular seasons with Whiz, 25 starts, he threw 32 touchdown passes.  

14 of those 32, almost half, came in the first quarter.  

22 of those 32, 68%, came in the first half.  

If that's not starting fast, and passing early, what would you call it?  

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Under Whiz, one of the reasons Ben wasn't widely regarded as an elite quarterback is because he was viewed as nothing more than a game manager.

By idiots who don't watch them play.  They'd watch Brady, they'd watch Peyton, then they'd look at the Steelers box score and assume based on attempts.  

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The year they went to the Super Bowl, Ben threw only 268 passes all season.

He also missed four regular season games.  In 16 total games that season?  Here are Ben's numbers, in his 2nd year in the league, and won a ring:

226 of 361 (62% ) for 3188 yards (8.3 YPA) for 24 TDS 12 INTS, 99.3 QB rating 5 rush tds = 29 total TDs

To compare here are 2001 Tom Brady's numbers in 18 total games, also his 2nd year in the league, and won a ring:

324 of 510 (63%) for 3415 yards (6.9 YPA) for 19 TDS 13 INTS, 84.7 QB rating 1 rush td = 20 total TDs

Ben is almost a yard and a half better in YPA, 15 points better in QB rating, and has 9 more total TDs despite playing in two less games.

I did Brady a favor by comparing their whole seasons, if I did it just by post season it wouldn't even be close.

Just who was the game manager of the two?  It sure as hell wasn't Ben.

mrcrash wrote:

What a joke you are.  First you tell me I don't watch games, and you then falsely label Jerome Bettis as the feature back in Ben's first two seasons when for most of his first two seasons he was a backup first to Duce Staley and then Willie Parker.  

How about you go fuck yourself.

Unlike you (who obviously has endless amounts of time on his hands), I don't have all day to sit at the computer and research stats and game logs. I post a lot of things from memory, so from time to time I slip up on something, especially when it's from 10 years ago. I'm not perfect, like you seem to think you are. My error in who the feature back was in 2004 and 2005 doesn't affect my argument though.

mrcrash wrote:

You sound like the 60 year old Yinzers I laugh at.

Dude, I've been owning your ass in every thread. Everyone knows it but you. I slip up one time and you're dancing in the end zone. Dance all you want. When you're done, look up at the scoreboard.

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No, they interviewed Tomlin because of the Rooney rule ... and loved him

Incorrect, the Steelers interviewed Tomlin AFTER already speaking with Ron Rivera, thus fulfilling their obligation to the Rooney Rule's criteria BEFORE talking to Tomlin.

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Dude, I've been owning your ass in every thread. Everyone knows it but you.

How? You've provided nothing but whining and your opinion.

I provide FACTS.

And all you do is skip over them.

But that doesn't change them.

mrcrash wrote:

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Dude, I've been owning your ass in every thread. Everyone knows it but you.

How?  You've provided nothing but whining and your opinion.  

I provide FACTS.  

And all you do is skip over them.  

But that doesn't change them.  

No sir, they are not facts as you claim them to be, they are statistics. And everyone knows that statistics are not necessarily facts, and can be manipulated to tell the story the storyteller wants it to read.

I find it funny that you accuse Haley of all this stuff but yet you've failed to see how predictable Arians' offense was as well. Not to mention how many times Arians got bailed out by the defense. Of course you wouldn't want to remember that, because it would deflate your entire argument.

2004-2005 Peyton Manning:

121 passes that traveled at least 21 yards in the air in 950 attempts

2004-2005 Ben Roethlisberger:

75 passes that traveled at least 21 yards in the air in 563 attempts.

That's 36 less for Ben, but Peyton threw almost 400 more passes.

That doesn't help Peyton's case (or yours) one bit.

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Not to mention how many times Arians got bailed out by the defense.

Yeah how many?

A few here and there. But for the most part of their 5 years together? It was Ben who bailed THEM out.

This was written in October 2012:

http://m.nbcsports.com/content/kacsmar-dont-believe-hype-steelers-d

Read it and weep.

Oh that's cute (and rich), you post an article after you berate the media (or is that use the media) in an earlier post.

So which one is it?

Read it, sounded more like an opinion piece with some statistics thrown in for the guys that need them. Sort of like the crappola you've dropped here.

But hey, if you're that disappointed in this franchise...remember Arizona is just a ball cap away!

mrcrash wrote:

How?  You've provided nothing but whining and your opinion.  

You're actually accusing ME of providing nothing but whining and my opinion?

mrcrash wrote:

I provide FACTS.

No, you provide stats. As we've discussed ... stats can be very misleading without context.

mrcrash wrote:

Hey Wallace I noticed you ignored this....

It's OK. We both know why.  

Again ...

I haven't gotten around yet to responding to a post, and you accuse me of ignoring it. You've ignored 70 percent of the stuff I post because you can't refute it. I'm still waiting for a response to my Colts post. I'm still waiting on you to compare the 2011 and 2012 offenses and explain why you think the offense in 2011 was so much better. And a few posts up you pointed out my Bettis error, but I couldn't help but notice you ignored the rest of the post.

It's OK. We both know why.

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I haven't gotten around yet to responding to a post, and you accuse me of ignoring it.

You ignored that part of it.  To get to the part you did respond to, you had to read the part you ignored FIRST.

Unless you read from bottom to top that is.  

YOU have admitted, your memory isn't the greatest, and yet you are trying to dispute what I say?

Hilarious.

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No, you provide stats. As we've discussed ... stats can be very misleading without context.

That's the difference between you and I. I can provide the proper context.

All you do is recite the same inaccurate garbage media who didn't watch this team play do.

stlrtruck wrote:

Oh that's cute (and rich), you post an article after you berate the media (or is that use the media) in an earlier post

The difference? The guy who wrote the article I posted? Is a Steelers fan from PITTSBURGH. He actually watches their games.

I berate media who you can tell, based on what they say, that they didn't watch this team at all.

mrcrash wrote:

You ignored that part of it.  To get to the part you did respond to, you had to read the part you ignored FIRST.

Unless you read from bottom to top that is.  

I first responded to the part that was easiest to respond to. I just haven't gotten around to the other part yet.

Still, there's been a number of times where I've written like 10 paragraphs, and you picked out one or two sentences to respond to, completely ignoring everything else in the post. Not once did I call you out on it and accuse you of ignoring my posts. Hell, I had to ask you THREE times just to get you to name something other than Ben that you like about the Steelers. But I ignore HALF of one of your posts and you act like I'm running scared.  

By the way ... have you responded to my Colts post yet? Or the post where I asked you to compare the 2011 and 2012 offenses? Or where I pointed out how Plax's stats and YPA can be misleading?

If you're going to make an issue out of me "ignoring" half a post, it probably wouldn't hurt for you to respond to mine first.  

mrcrash wrote:

YOU have admitted, your memory isn't the greatest, and yet you are trying to dispute what I say?

Hilarious.

Let me guess ... you have a photographic memory to go along with your infinite amount of knowledge.

No, my memory isn't always the greatest. I don't always have instant recall of certain facts. If you ask me something, like who the starting quarterback was after Neil O'Donnell, I have to stop and think about it. Or I might have to look it up just to make sure.

Believe me, I'm far from perfect. I make mistakes. And when I do, I admit it. I was so focused on the overall point of my post that I didn't stop to think that Bettis wasn't the feature back at that point. But the fact that you're making such a big deal over one minor slip up says a lot more about you than it does about me.

But hey, if one minor mistake by me makes you feel like a champ, then by all means, don't let me rain on your parade.

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Let me guess ... you have a photographic memory to go along with your infinite amount of knowledge.

Nope, I have the last 20 years of Steelers games on a shelf five feet from me.

Plus, DURING games live, I used to write post game summaries on old prodigy classic, and on the old grandstand board on AOL for Steelers fans who couldn't watch the games. So I'd chart plays, situations, etc.

In short? Not to brag. But you're out of my league when discussing this team with me.

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Or where I pointed out how Plax's stats and YPA can be misleading?

Yeah, because I posted Ben's length of attempt, which actually charts the actual DISTANCE that Ben's passes were thrown.

Let me guess, you "missed" that too?

mrcrash wrote:

In short?  Not to brag. But you're out of my league when discussing this team with me.

For once we agree. I'm definitely out of your league.

You were entertaining for a while, but at the end of the day you're nothing but a troll. The others can continue to kick you around until they get tired of you, but I'm done with you.

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You were entertaining for a while, but at the end of the day you're nothing but a troll. The others can continue to kick you around until they get tired of you, but I'm done with you.

Translation: I can't beat 20 years of games with my shit memory.

mrcrash wrote:

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You were entertaining for a while, but at the end of the day you're nothing but a troll. The others can continue to kick you around until they get tired of you, but I'm done with you.

Translation:  I can't beat 20 years of games with my shit memory.  

 

No. I just have better things to do than to get into pissing matches with an Internet troll who has delusions of grandeur.

The way I see it, you have 3 options:

1. Go someplace else where you'll probably fit in better. I suggest http://forums.azcardinals.com/
2. Stop being a dick and discuss things respectfully.
3. Await the eventual ban.

The choice is yours.

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In Ben's first few seasons with Whiz, you think they started fast with Ben? And you accuse ME of not watching the games?

I believe I asked you a question:

In Ben's first two regular seasons with Whiz, 25 starts, he threw 32 touchdown passes.  

14 of those 32, almost half, came in the first quarter.  

22 of those 32, 68%, came in the first half.  

If that's not starting fast, and passing early, what would you call it?  

You said this:

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Yards per Attempt is a system-neutral metric. If you play in a conservative, horizontal offense, you can have a very high completion percentage, like David Carr in 2006.

Which has nothing to do with the point of Ben's YPA.  

Ben played in a vertical offense, led the league in YPA in 2005, AND was 9th in the league in completion %. AND he was 3rd in the NFL in QB rating.  

If anyone's being a troll here, it is YOU, despite the facts to the contrary YOU are trying to dismiss, and devalue the HOF career of Ben Roethlisberget there Mr. "Steeler Fan".  

Why?

Crash, check your PMs.

I did. Now answer my questions above.

mrcrash wrote:

I did.  Now answer my questions above.

*sigh*

I guess you're choosing Option No. 3. I was really hoping you'd go with Option No. 2.

Wallace108 wrote:

mrcrash wrote:

I did.  Now answer my questions above.

*sigh*  

I guess you're choosing Option No. 3. I was really hoping you'd go with Option No. 2.

I'm discussing this football team.

Didn't you call me a "dick"?

Is that allowed?