Bench Antwon Blake

Chaotic Zen wrote:

"Blake will get the opportunity to rebound" is all I have to see.

So, even if he plays "not-terrible" this weekend, does that mean he rebounded?

I think he's had plenty a chance to rebound. He's been consistently one of the worst CB's since week 6, and it's week 13 now.

Fire Arians wrote:

Chaotic Zen wrote:

"Blake will get the opportunity to rebound" is all I have to see.

So, even if he plays "not-terrible" this weekend, does that mean he rebounded?

I think he's had plenty a chance to rebound. He's been consistently one of the worst CB's since week 6, and it's week 13 now.

Absolutely! You rebound from 1 bad game, not from 10 bad games.

I just keep seeing TE and WR wide open, catching huge passes and touchdowns. Then I ask for the name getting burnt the most and it comes up as Blake.

I'm sure plenty of the times I've screamed at my TV it was Blake getting beat 10-fold.

I'm starting to question this guy as worth of a team that has 11-5 as a potential. Send him to the Browns...no Ravens.

Just start getting rid of everyone that isn't Gay

PFF has graded Delvin Breaux out as the 13th-best cornerback in the NFL this season.

The same Breaux the Steelers released in the off season in keeping Blake & Will Gay.

For those keeping score, that's Howard Jones and Breaux being let go in the same off season in order to keep Anthony Chickillo and Antwon Blake.

Just baffling.

SteelersCanada wrote:

PFF has graded Delvin Breaux out as the 13th-best cornerback in the NFL this season.

The same Breaux the Steelers released in the off season in keeping Blake & Will Gay.

For those keeping score, that's Howard Jones and Breaux being let go in the same off season in order to keep Anthony Chickillo and Antwon Blake.

Just baffling.

I guess we are moving on from Keenan Lewis

Breaux was hidden in plain sight for every NFL team by playing in the CFL in 2013 and 2014 before he worked out with more than a dozen teams including the Steelers and Saints - he signed with the Saints but was not released by the Steelers

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-orleans-saints/post/_/id/13135/scouting-report-on-new-saints-cb-delvin-breaux

And assuming it is team stats that count his presence has not turned the Saints pass defense into the 85 Bears - Saints masterful assessment of secondary talent has them as one of two teams that have given up more passing yardage than the Steelers

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/passing/position/defense

Consider the possibility Breaux wanted to play back home and thought he had a better chance to see the field with a team that has an even worse pass defense than the Steelers do

Atlanta Dan wrote:

SteelersCanada wrote:

PFF has graded Delvin Breaux out as the 13th-best cornerback in the NFL this season.

The same Breaux the Steelers released in the off season in keeping Blake & Will Gay.

For those keeping score, that's Howard Jones and Breaux being let go in the same off season in order to keep Anthony Chickillo and Antwon Blake.

Just baffling.

I guess we are moving on from Keenan Lewis

Breaux was hidden in plain sight for every NFL team by playing in the CFL in 2013 and 2014 before he worked out with more than a dozen teams including the Steelers and Saints - he signed with the Saints but was not released by the Steelers

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-orleans-saints/post/_/id/13135/scouting-report-on-new-saints-cb-delvin-breaux

And assuming it is team stats that count his presence has not turned the Saints pass defense into the 85 Bears - Saints masterful assessment of secondary talent has them as one of two teams that have given up more passing yardage than the Steelers

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/passing/position/defense

Consider the possibility Breaux wanted to play back home and thought he had a better chance to see the field with a team that has an even worse pass defense than the Steelers do

This isn't the same situation as Keenan Lewis. Yes, Lewis wanted to go back to New Orleans. The front office knew this and didn't offer him a contract. The Steelers worked Breaux out and, from what is currently out there, was never offered a contract.

The front office will catch a lot of breaks from me, but letting HoJo and Breaux slip through their fingers shouldn't go unnoticed.

Yes, the Saints have a horrifically bad pass defense, but assigning that to Breaux -- essentially a rookie NFL DB -- is ludicrous considering how he has played this season. I don't necessarily agree with PFF on everything, but they currently have Breaux ranked as the 13th best CB in the NFL. Blake is second-to-last behind Browner, a CB who can't stop taking pass interference penalties.

Something tells me this has less to do with the fact that Breaux "wanted to go home" and is following in the same vein as not playing Brandon Boykin. There's stubbornness from either Lake or Tomlin, or both, in who plays in that secondary.

SteelersCanada wrote:

Atlanta Dan wrote:

SteelersCanada wrote:

PFF has graded Delvin Breaux out as the 13th-best cornerback in the NFL this season.

The same Breaux the Steelers released in the off season in keeping Blake & Will Gay.

For those keeping score, that's Howard Jones and Breaux being let go in the same off season in order to keep Anthony Chickillo and Antwon Blake.

Just baffling.

I guess we are moving on from Keenan Lewis

Breaux was hidden in plain sight for every NFL team by playing in the CFL in 2013 and 2014 before he worked out with more than a dozen teams including the Steelers and Saints - he signed with the Saints but was not released by the Steelers

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-orleans-saints/post/_/id/13135/scouting-report-on-new-saints-cb-delvin-breaux

And assuming it is team stats that count his presence has not turned the Saints pass defense into the 85 Bears - Saints masterful assessment of secondary talent has them as one of two teams that have given up more passing yardage than the Steelers

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/passing/position/defense

Consider the possibility Breaux wanted to play back home and thought he had a better chance to see the field with a team that has an even worse pass defense than the Steelers do

This isn't the same situation as Keenan Lewis. Yes, Lewis wanted to go back to New Orleans. The front office knew this and didn't offer him a contract. The Steelers worked Breaux out and, from what is currently out there, was never offered a contract.

The front office will catch a lot of breaks from me, but letting HoJo and Breaux slip through their fingers shouldn't go unnoticed.

Yes, the Saints have a horrifically bad pass defense, but assigning that to Breaux -- essentially a rookie NFL DB -- is ludicrous considering how he has played this season. I don't necessarily agree with PFF on everything, but they currently have Breaux ranked as the 13th best CB in the NFL. Blake is second-to-last behind Browner, a CB who can't stop taking pass interference penalties.

Something tells me this has less to do with the fact that Breaux "wanted to go home" and is following in the same vein as not playing Brandon Boykin. There's stubbornness from either Lake or Tomlin, or both, in who plays in that secondary.

My point with Lewis was that now that he has hit the rocks in New Orleans Lewis is no longer the poster CB for the one that got away

With regard to Breaux, he worked out with over a dozen teams that also did not lock him down, after he presumably would have cheerfully left the CFL following the 2013 season and after also playing for the New Orleans Voodoo in the Arena League before joining the CFL   - the Steelers assessment of secondary talent is awful (and Lake may end up being the ritual human sacrifice for that) but pounding them for Breaux is like blaming one team in particular for not drafting Donnie Shell in 12 rounds of the draft or signing him as a free agent before the Steelers did- sometimes you get lucky


You and I do agree on Howard Jones - he was on the roster

Howard Jones is playing some DE in a 4-3 in Tampa from what I can tell. He really didn't distinguish himself in 2 seasons as a 3-4 OLB with the Steelers camp. Tough to tab him as one that got away.

As for the thread. YES, Blake should be Benched. Blake should be released.

It is insane that Boykin isnt seeing more time he is very talented, he has proved him self at an nfl level if blake plays this week and boykin doesnt and i see blake get burnt every play im afraid I will break something.

No. 30 in passing yards (283.6). Opposing quarterbacks have a 98.9 passer rating with 22 touchdowns and a 67.1 completion rate with just nine interceptions.

-http://fox59.com/2015/12/05/game-plan-colts-at-steelers/

El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:

Howard Jones is playing some DE in a 4-3 in Tampa from what I can tell.  He really didn't distinguish himself in 2 seasons as a 3-4 OLB with the Steelers camp.  Tough to tab him as one that got away.

As for the thread.  YES, Blake should be Benched.  Blake should be released.

The Steelers operate out of a 4-3 far too often for this to be the excuse.

Production is production. Jarvis has his hand in the dirt far too often and is criticized for not being able to apply pressure for us to begin splitting hairs on formations. He's an edge player. We're not talking about a hybrid 3T/0S defensive tackle here.

Keeping Chickillo was a mistake. One of many made on the defensive side of the ball that someone has to answer for.

SteelersCanada wrote:

El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:

Howard Jones is playing some DE in a 4-3 in Tampa from what I can tell.  He really didn't distinguish himself in 2 seasons as a 3-4 OLB with the Steelers camp.  Tough to tab him as one that got away.

As for the thread.  YES, Blake should be Benched.  Blake should be released.

The Steelers operate out of a 4-3 far too often for this to be the excuse.

Production is production. Jarvis has his hand in the dirt far too often and is criticized for not being able to apply pressure for us to begin splitting hairs on formations. He's an edge player. We're not talking about a hybrid 3T/0S defensive tackle here.

Keeping Chickillo was a mistake. One of many made on the defensive side of the ball that someone has to answer for.

I'm not seeing Jarvis Jones with his hand in the dirt at all. He operates out of a 2-point stance exclusively from what I watch. Jarvis Jones doesn't apply pressure because he doesn't have the speed or quickness to get around the edge, all he has is a bull rush and hustle, which is what many said when he was drafted.

Howard Jones had 2 preseasons and flashed on special teams mostly. I didn't see him get any sacks, nor much in the way of pressure in the preseason and that was against 3rd team o linemen. Categorizing him as the one that got away because of his 4.5 sacks for the Bucs this year seems to be a bit premature. Yes, he has produced more sacks in half a season than Jarvis Jones has in 3 seasons, but 1st round bust should not be the benchmark. IMO.

El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:

SteelersCanada wrote:

El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:

Howard Jones is playing some DE in a 4-3 in Tampa from what I can tell.  He really didn't distinguish himself in 2 seasons as a 3-4 OLB with the Steelers camp.  Tough to tab him as one that got away.

As for the thread.  YES, Blake should be Benched.  Blake should be released.

The Steelers operate out of a 4-3 far too often for this to be the excuse.

Production is production. Jarvis has his hand in the dirt far too often and is criticized for not being able to apply pressure for us to begin splitting hairs on formations. He's an edge player. We're not talking about a hybrid 3T/0S defensive tackle here.

Keeping Chickillo was a mistake. One of many made on the defensive side of the ball that someone has to answer for.

I'm not seeing Jarvis Jones with his hand in the dirt at all.  He operates out of a 2-point stance exclusively from what I watch.  Jarvis Jones doesn't apply pressure because he doesn't have the speed or quickness to get around the edge, all he has is a bull rush and hustle, which is what many said when he was drafted.

Howard Jones had 2 preseasons and flashed on special teams mostly.  I didn't see him get any sacks, nor much in the way of pressure in the preseason and that was against 3rd team o linemen.  Categorizing him as the one that got away because of his 4.5 sacks for the Bucs this year seems to be a bit premature.  Yes, he has produced more sacks in half a season than Jarvis Jones has in 3 seasons, but 1st round bust should not be the benchmark. IMO.

Count how often Dupree and Harrison have their hands in the dirt tonight against the Colts. It isn't the same, but Dupree especially.

He flashed on special teams, but how often was he on the field with the first team defense? How often was Jones on the field with Cam Thomas playing defensive end? Preseason numbers can't be taken in a vacuum like you're suggesting. He's producing in the regular season in a situational role in which he is allowed to rush the passer.

4.5 sacks would be tied with the team lead for sacks on this team from edge rushers. The leader is Dupree, an edge rusher so raw we figured wouldn't see extensive snaps this season. He's a good edge player that possesses explosive ability off of the line of scrimmage and the athleticism required for good bend around the edge. Keep in mind, Jones is in a situational role with the Buccaneers. He isn't an every down player, and he still is still posting respectable numbers in what is essentially his rookie season in the NFL.

I'm not using Jarvis as the benchmark, I'm saying this team lacks a true edge rusher on the right side. HoJo looks like he could be the player, potentially, and keeping him over Anthony Chickillo -- a player who only plays on special teams and has been tossed around when seeing defensive snaps this season -- looks like another mistake by this coaching staff. If the line of thinking here is he may not be able to produce as a 3-4 OLB, I implore you to look at how often this team is in an 'Okie' formation or lines up in in wide-7.

Is he the one that got away? Maybe, maybe not. His numbers in the role the Bucs have given him have been impressive this season. Keeping Chickillo over him has never made sense to me as Chickillo is a converted 5T DE that has yet to show ... anything. If we want to discuss the preseason, we can talk about Chickillo's lack of production there as well.

I know you're a fan of his, but dismissing NFL production in a situational pass rushing role is a mistake.

Just MO.

SteelCity4Life wrote:

I just keep seeing TE and WR wide open, catching huge passes and touchdowns. Then I ask for the name getting burnt the most and it comes up as Blake.

That's because you're watching the game with the same people I see posting about him, and those people aren't paying attention. Blake rarely covers tight ends, if at all, and Cockrell and Gay get burned just as often. The main difference being Blake is usually very close to the guy he's supposed to be covering, and most of the other opponents making catches are just floating in space between Gay, Golden, Mitchell, Allen, and Cockrell, so no one knows who's supposed to be covering those guys, and no one gets named. From what I'm seeing, there are blown coverages all around our secondary, and no one is acknowledging it. Basically, it's the same bullshit from people who don't really watch the game and prefer to single players out. I really hope Boykin makes a difference, but I doubt you'll see much of one if everyone else continues to leave dudes wide open.

SteelersCanada wrote:

[quote="
Count how often Dupree and Harrison have their hands in the dirt tonight against the Colts. It isn't the same, but Dupree especially.

He flashed on special teams, but how often was he on the field with the first team defense? How often was Jones on the field with Cam Thomas playing defensive end? Preseason numbers can't be taken in a vacuum like you're suggesting. He's producing in the regular season in a situational role in which he is allowed to rush the passer.

4.5 sacks would be tied with the team lead for sacks on this team from edge rushers. The leader is Dupree, an edge rusher so raw we figured wouldn't see extensive snaps this season. He's a good edge player that possesses explosive ability off of the line of scrimmage and the athleticism required for good bend around the edge. Keep in mind, Jones is in a situational role with the Buccaneers. He isn't an every down player, and he still is still posting respectable numbers in what is essentially his rookie season in the NFL.

I'm not using Jarvis as the benchmark, I'm saying this team lacks a true edge rusher on the right side. HoJo looks like he could be the player, potentially, and keeping him over Anthony Chickillo -- a player who only plays on special teams and has been tossed around when seeing defensive snaps this season -- looks like another mistake by this coaching staff. If the line of thinking here is he may not be able to produce as a 3-4 OLB, I implore you to look at how often this team is in an 'Okie' formation or lines up in in wide-7.

Is he the one that got away? Maybe, maybe not. His numbers in the role the Bucs have given him have been impressive this season. Keeping Chickillo over him has never made sense to me as Chickillo is a converted 5T DE that has yet to show ... anything. If we want to discuss the preseason, we can talk about Chickillo's lack of production there as well.

I know you're a fan of his, but dismissing NFL production in a situational pass rushing role is a mistake.

Just MO.

I still have the last 3 or 4 games on DVR, so can check how often OLB's are working with hands in the dirt, but you know that a 4-3 DE has different responsibilities than a 3-4 OLB, but we know an edge rush is an edge rush. We can talk about opportunities for HOjo to play with the 1's here, just like we can talk about what kind of opportunities Brandon Boykin has been given, its tough.

I personally would have liked to see them keep Jones as they were so unsettled at OLB and still don't value Terrence Garvin being on the roster as the #5 ILB instead. I'm not trying to make this a Chickillo vs Jones thread as you seem to be. I think both had potential to switch from college DE to OLB and the Steelers cut both. I think they originally valued Chickillo over Jones as he made the 53. Jones had 2 camps to distinguish himself in drills, preseason games and one practice squad. If he wasn't getting the system and got cut, that is on him.

A 4-3 DE, who was made to play a 5tech in college and now learning to play DE is still a work in progress, so your judgement seems a little quick on that I would say, IMO.

And yes, Antowan "Five Alarm" Blake, should be benched.

Steel Peon wrote:

SteelCity4Life wrote:

I just keep seeing TE and WR wide open, catching huge passes and touchdowns. Then I ask for the name getting burnt the most and it comes up as Blake.

That's because you're watching the game with the same people I see posting about him, and those people aren't paying attention. Blake rarely covers tight ends, if at all, and Cockrell and Gay get burned just as often. The main difference being Blake is usually very close to the guy he's supposed to be covering, and most of the other opponents making catches are just floating in space between Gay, Golden, Mitchell, Allen, and Cockrell, so no one knows who's supposed to be covering those guys, and no one gets named. From what I'm seeing, there are blown coverages all around our secondary, and no one is acknowledging it. Basically, it's the same bullshit from people who don't really watch the game and prefer to single players out. I really hope Boykin makes a difference, but I doubt you'll see much of one if everyone else continues to leave dudes wide open.

I understand that our secondary overall is inept, that much I get. It's too easy to single out a player when something big happens and somebody missed something somewhere.

It's very akin to me playing Madden. I get tunnel vision looking at a football field; I generally see what's going on but I'll miss things so I'm not the best candidate to understand every piece of the puzzle as it's going.

The fact that our coaching staff thinks they can ignore the needs of the secondary for so long is beyond puzzling. We've practically drafted 14 LBs and 2 CBs that don't really see the field and a trade for a draft pick who's hardly seeing any playing time at all, and it just doesn't make sense. Tomlin is indeed stubborn.

Making changes when we're in a race with a bunch of other teams for a couple wild card spots is a little too late of a decision. Manziel puts 300 some yards on us and they just ignore because who cares, we won right?

saw that coming

FrancoLambert wrote:

Steel Peon wrote:

Just for the record, when Boykin is put in to replace Blake, and there still appears to be opponents catching balls all over the field, over and over (against Cockrell, Mitchell, Golden, Allen, and Gay), how many of you assholes are going to put Boykin under the microscope and skewer him when he allows a catch, or misses a tackle, and then make him the scapegoat for an entire defense's failures? I'm guessing, all of you.

Still clinging to the belief that Blake is being treated as a scapegoat despite what we see from him on the field.        

Imagine this....you're the offensive coordinator preparing to play against the Steelers......you spend hours studying tape.....looking for weak spots.......where to attack.....looking for mismatches to exploit........you can identify a few.....but the one you're going to notice the most is named Antwon Blake.    

Just checking....are all you a-holes going to put Boykin or Cockrell under the microscope for all the catches allowed on Sunday? Scapegoating them for the entire defensive failures?

El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:

FrancoLambert wrote:

Steel Peon wrote:

Just for the record, when Boykin is put in to replace Blake, and there still appears to be opponents catching balls all over the field, over and over (against Cockrell, Mitchell, Golden, Allen, and Gay), how many of you assholes are going to put Boykin under the microscope and skewer him when he allows a catch, or misses a tackle, and then make him the scapegoat for an entire defense's failures? I'm guessing, all of you.

Still clinging to the belief that Blake is being treated as a scapegoat despite what we see from him on the field.        

Imagine this....you're the offensive coordinator preparing to play against the Steelers......you spend hours studying tape.....looking for weak spots.......where to attack.....looking for mismatches to exploit........you can identify a few.....but the one you're going to notice the most is named Antwon Blake.    

Just checking....are all you a-holes going to put Boykin or Cockrell under the microscope for all the catches allowed on Sunday?  Scapegoating them for the entire defensive failures?  

Just putting the goal post under the microscope for catching AB's balls.. It could've caused an injury.

Steel Peon wrote:

SteelCity4Life wrote:

I just keep seeing TE and WR wide open, catching huge passes and touchdowns. Then I ask for the name getting burnt the most and it comes up as Blake.

That's because you're watching the game with the same people I see posting about him, and those people aren't paying attention. Blake rarely covers tight ends, if at all, and Cockrell and Gay get burned just as often. The main difference being Blake is usually very close to the guy he's supposed to be covering, and most of the other opponents making catches are just floating in space between Gay, Golden, Mitchell, Allen, and Cockrell, so no one knows who's supposed to be covering those guys, and no one gets named. From what I'm seeing, there are blown coverages all around our secondary, and no one is acknowledging it. Basically, it's the same bullshit from people who don't really watch the game and prefer to single players out. I really hope Boykin makes a difference, but I doubt you'll see much of one if everyone else continues to leave dudes wide open.

Maybe we should change your SN to Stevie Wonder, because you're obviously not seeing what everyone else is seeing in regards to Blake. While it's not his fault every time the secondary get's burned I've seen him get burned more than anyone else in the secondary, and it's not even close.

I'm sorry, but something had to give and Blake deserves most of the blame for the secondary woes. There's a reason he's rated nearly last place among NFL cornerbacks. With that being said, I do think he's better than what he's shown over the past 4-5 weeks. He's been injured, and he's been asked to do a lot, and to play almost all of the snaps. I think he'll benefit from not having such an immense amount of pressure put on him. Ultimately though, Blake wouldn't start on any other team in this league. He's a backup, that's been thrust into the starting role because the Steelers don't have much depth at the cornerback position. Cockrell is a hand me down from the Bills, we traded for Boykin, and William Gay is the wily old vet. Outside of these guys we have zero apparent depth because guys like Grant, and Golson are relative question marks.

I was defending Blake a few weeks back, and even I had to finally give in and hop on the Boykin bandwagon. Even the coaches knew something needed to change. They made changes and the defense only gave up 10 points over the entirety of a game. I'd say those were positive changes. We'll see if that holds up this weekend.

I don't exactly feel comfortable with Boykin covering AJ Green either. Can't be worse than Blake, but...

The_Joker wrote:

I don't exactly feel comfortable with Boykin covering AJ Green either. Can't be worse than Blake, but...

I guarantee Boykin will cover Green a lot better than Blake could.

It was interesting that Butler said the problems with the secondary are fatigue based. I didnt really agree but you got to admit they did a pretty I good job against the colts. Even Blake looked better. It would be nice if fatigue were all it was. Personally I think Boykin should be on the field more.

ImperialFan wrote:

It was interesting that Butler said the problems with the secondary are fatigue based. I didnt really agree but you got to admit they did a pretty  I good job against the colts. Even Blake looked better. It would be nice if fatigue were all it was. Personally I think Boykin should be on the field more.

Fatigue is a real thing when you consistently can't stop the opponent from converting 3rd downs. 3rd downs (especially 3rd and long) are usually rush situations which are taxing on pass rushers, and secondary players who are usually stuck in 1on1s as a result of blitzing.

ImperialFan wrote:

It was interesting that Butler said the problems with the secondary are fatigue based. I didnt really agree but you got to admit they did a pretty  I good job against the colts. Even Blake looked better. It would be nice if fatigue were all it was. Personally I think Boykin should be on the field more.

Fatigue, as in tired of stopping, dropping and rolling because he got burnt again.