It's Time To Move On From Tomlin

I sat and thought. I didn't want to open the conversation. The media is already starting the conversation. This article sums up how I feel.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2812226-playoffs-or-not-the-steelers-need-to-move-on-from-mike-tomlin.amp.html

I saw some very good points mentioned on twitter last night. One being that he only has 8 playoff wins with Roethlisberger and thats just plain unacceptable. Not just that but to only win 2 SB's with the talent hes had on some of these teams is horrible. He can't manage the clock, hes always wasting time outs, and always calling beyond stupid plays like we saw yesterday. I'm a Yankee fan, and just like they did with Joe Girardi, the same has to be done with Tomlin. Enough is enough already. I think all of Steeler nation is tired of season after season going into games unprepared, always getting beaten by sub .500 teams.

The standard is the standard.

I've never really been in the fire Tomlin camp. I just like the stability at the top and the idea we've only had 3 coaches the past 50 years. Something has to be done though. It was an epic collapse this year. They had a 3.5 game lead on Baltimore with 6 left and games against the Raiders, Broncos, and Bengals in the last 6. After 5 of those 6 games we're 1/2 game back and not making the playoffs unless the Browns beat the rats and Steelers beat a losing team in the Bengals...which, as we know, is no certainty.

At bare minimum I think the defensive coaching should go to a true coordinator and take it out of Tomlin's hands. I  hear the argument that the talent isn't there, that's why they're bad at times, but if they can hold the brady/belicheat duo to 10 points they should be able to stop the Raiders, Broncos, and not to mention Tyrod Taylor at end of game 1.

I get tired of hearing Tomlin never had a losing season and a better win percentage than Noll and Cowher. Tomlin had a top ranked D in the beginning and an elite future HOF QB his entire tenure, Cowher was starting guys like Kent Graham at one point and only had Ben his first 3 seasons. Noll finished his last 10 years with guys like Cliff Stoudt, David Woodley, Mark Malone, and Brister and still took a team to AFC CG and came just short a second time.

I think I stop just short of wanting change but some changes do need to be made. Cowher one time said that a good coach accounts for an extra couple wins or so a year. We would have already had clinched the division prior to yesterday's game if we had those extra couple this year.

I don't think we should fire him right now, but I think he should be on the hot seat following this season. It's the same old story year after year, incredibly talented roster, underwhelming performances, poor coaching decisions in games, undisciplined play, and playing down to the worst teams in the league. At some point something has to change and nothing has changed with Tomlin. Breaking even and being just above .500 shouldn't be the standard. The standard in Pittsburgh is Lombardis.

That being said, I hope we beat the Bungles, and the Ratbirds lose to the Brownies and we somehow sneak into the playoffs. This team has shown that it can hang with any team in the league, all they need is a chance.

If we saw constant improvement this year that would be a sign of a HC turning things around. Instead what we saw was poor coaching and inconsistent play. I would say Tomlin has lost the locker room but I'm not sure he ever had it the way he should. Just look at all the drama. Bell,Bryant,Ben,all out on the town using twitter or radio. Tomlin has been a good coach for us but let me compare him to another good but not great coach.

Marty Schottenheimer: 21 years coaching and a .613 record.The knock on him was : "He couldn't win the big one". Between Cleveland and KC he coached 15 years and only had 1 losing season.

Tomlin has a better winning percentage but can't win against lousy teams. The knock on him is :"he plays to the level of his competition". Also not great.

If we beat the Bengals and the Browns beat the Ravens we get in but it would feel like winning the "ugly sweater contest". We would be the Rodney Dangerfields this year. Backs against the wall no respect. The only thing is which team would we get? The one out to prove everyone wrong that wins it all like in 2005 as a #6 seed or the one that lost to the Raiders. I don't know about anyone else here but I would be waiting for us to screw it all up while holding out hope we could pull it off. With Tomlin for me it's become a love/hate relationship. I only remember one game this year where we were pretty much all in agreement that he called a great game and that was against New England.

It's just not enough!

By the way MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!

solardave wrote:

If we saw constant improvement this year that would be a sign of a HC turning things around. Instead what we saw was poor coaching and inconsistent play. I would say Tomlin has lost the locker room but I'm not sure he ever had it the way he should. Just look at all the drama. Bell,Bryant,Ben,all out on the town using twitter or radio. Tomlin has been a good coach for us but let me compare him to another good but not great coach.

Marty Schottenheimer: 21 years coaching and a .613 record.The knock on him was : "He couldn't win the big one". Between Cleveland and KC he coached 15 years and only had 1 losing season.

Tomlin has a better winning percentage but can't win against lousy teams. The knock on him is :"he plays to the level of his competition". Also not great.

If we beat the Bengals and the Browns beat the Ravens we get in but it would feel like winning the "ugly sweater contest". We would be the Rodney Dangerfields this year. Backs against the wall no respect. The only thing is which team would we get? The one out to prove everyone wrong that wins it all like in 2005 as a #6 seed or the one that lost to the Raiders. I don't know about anyone else here but I would be waiting for us to screw it all up while holding out hope we could pull it off. With Tomlin for me it's become a love/hate relationship. I only remember one game this year where we were pretty much all in agreement that he called a great game and that was against New England.

It's just not enough!

By the way MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!

He brought in outside coaching for that game. That alone should say enough.

Butler is fired at seasons end. Maybe even Porter. Tomlin gets one more season as long as Ben is around. If he doesnt get to at least the AFC Championship he will be gone too.

Tomlin has missed on way to many high draft picks and that is the reason the D is struggling. Along with Butlers lack of skill and poor adjusting in game. You get what we are at best a 9-6-1 team.

This team has been consistently inconsistent for the last few years. Even last year there were 7 games that the team won in either OT or in the last minute of the game. Last year they won most of those games, thos year they lost some. They barely beat the Colts last year against Brisett, barely beat Greenbay with a back up QB... lots of games last year down to the wire against piss poor teams that should not have even been close but were.

Its time to move on from Tomlin but the FO wont do that to Ben not with a uear left on his contract. Fitchner has done ok as a new OC. Butler is garbage, Porter could hit the road. Special teams is a disaster. They were one of the most penalized in all of football.

Tomlin might be on the hot seat with Steelers Nation in Rooney's eyes he's on the cool seat. imo the Steelers will be a better team in 2019 and Tomlin and his coaching staff will all be on the job.

I'm just going to try and be patient because this team is one or two players away from being great IMO. They just need to fix the secondary, maybe and maybe add another pass rusher. Offensively we can beat any team in the league. If we get the defense back to being a Steeler defense, this team will be scary.

That being said, the Coaching needs to improve as well. I hope 2018 was an example to Tomlin and his staff of how not to do things and they quit with the boneheaded stuff in 2019.

It's hard to be patient when #1 we're spoiled as fans and this last several years on the Steel City roller coaster. We get our hopes up and then they show us their other side. I have mixed emotions because I want to believe we can play lights out most games even though the evidence shows other wise.
If (and I'm really sure he will be) Tomlin starts out with the same play calling I'll be on board with shit canning him.

solardave wrote:

It's hard to be patient when #1 we're spoiled rotten as fans and this last several years on the Steel City roller coaster. We get our hopes up and then they show us their other side.  I have mixed emotions because I want to believe we can play lights out most games even though the evidence shows other wise.
If (and I'm really sure he will be) Tomlin starts out with the same play calling I'll be on board with shit canning him.

The Steel City Roller Coaster

Butler definitely needs to go. the defense has not improved despite him getting plenty of high draft picks for his side of the ball.

The article certainly had some good points, but one that I didn't see was how this team has played down to competition more often under Tomlin than any other time I can remember. It's not that it didn't happen under Cowher, it just didn't happen repeatedly game after game every season.

Tomlin has been a good coach, and he's done some good things with the Steelers team. However, as of late he's been getting by by the skin of his teeth. Games the Steelers should've won, they haven't. The last 6 games are proof of that. Barely getting by Jax, losing 3 in a row to Denver, Chargers, and Oakland, before shocking the Patriots*****, only to blow another lead in Nawlins.

I won't call for Tomlins head but just like when our offense was not performing at an expected level the OC got let go. This year our defense has underperformed and it's time for Butler to go.

I also agree next year Tomlin should be on the hot seat.

Have to say, I really didn't expect our team to be very good this year. So the fact that we have played toe to toe with 4 of the best teams in football (Chiefs, Rams, Chargers, Patriots*), is very encouraging. Its maddening to lose to crappy teams because we could've been way high in the playoff seeding (as high as #2), instead of scrambling to maybe make the playoffs.

But considering where I thought we'd be, we're a lot more competitive than I expected.

And yes - Steelers fans are spoiled. Try being a Lions fan or Browns fan and going decades without a winning season. Makes you appreciate what we have - a team that is at least competitive every single season.

nine vegetable wrote:

Have to say, I really didn't expect our team to be very good this year.  So the fact that we have played toe to toe with 4 of the best teams in football (Chiefs, Rams, Chargers, Patriots**), is very encouraging.  Its maddening to lose to crappy teams because we could've been way high in the playoff seeding (as high as #2), instead of scrambling to maybe make the playoffs.

But considering where I thought we'd be, we're a lot more competitive than I expected.

And yes - Steelers fans are spoiled.  Try being a Lions fan or Browns fan and going decades without a winning season.  Makes you appreciate what we have - a team that is at least competitive every single season.

Obviously you weren't around for the '80s and most of the '90s. lol

Mach1 wrote:

nine vegetable wrote:

Have to say, I really didn't expect our team to be very good this year.  So the fact that we have played toe to toe with 4 of the best teams in football (Chiefs, Rams, Chargers, Patriots***), is very encouraging.  Its maddening to lose to crappy teams because we could've been way high in the playoff seeding (as high as #2), instead of scrambling to maybe make the playoffs.

But considering where I thought we'd be, we're a lot more competitive than I expected.

And yes - Steelers fans are spoiled.  Try being a Lions fan or Browns fan and going decades without a winning season.  Makes you appreciate what we have - a team that is at least competitive every single season.

Obviously you weren't around for the '80s and most of the '90s. lol

I really got to thinking about the 80's after a post I made in here the past week. Cliff Stoudt...Mark Malone...David Woodley....Bubby Brister...yikes. The D really was decimated after the Steel Curtain started retiring. Noll still managed a AFC CG in 1984, and came just short of one in 89.

1989 to me was the most miraculous Steelers season I've seen. They got hammered by Cincy and Clev the 1st two games something like 95-10, started the year 4-6, then went 5-1 and needed help from like 4-5 other teams last game of season to get in. They then went to the Astrodome and beat the Oilers in game everyone figured they'd lose. They went to Denver and almost won there which would have sent them to the AFC CG. The 89 Oilers playoff game is on Youtube and a lot of fun to watch now.

Noll had drafted the team Cowher took over in 92 that was very good but led by an average QB. Had he drafted Marino he may have won some more in the 90's if Cowher hadn't taken over.

I think the issue people right now have is Ben is the type QB that comes along very infrequently and the time is being wasted year in and year out. It's hard to say when the next franchise guy comes along. Maybe Rudolph is the guy, but it sucks to see winnable games blown, 2-14 teams beating us, and postseasons come and go, when everyone knows we're down to the last 3-4 Ben years. I don't think it's a matter of not appreciating what we have but more so not wanting to waste it.

nine vegetable wrote:

Have to say, I really didn't expect our team to be very good this year.  So the fact that we have played toe to toe with 4 of the best teams in football (Chiefs, Rams, Chargers, Patriots**), is very encouraging.  Its maddening to lose to crappy teams because we could've been way high in the playoff seeding (as high as #2), instead of scrambling to maybe make the playoffs.

But considering where I thought we'd be, we're a lot more competitive than I expected.

And yes - Steelers fans are spoiled.  Try being a Lions fan or Browns fan and going decades without a winning season.  Makes you appreciate what we have - a team that is at least competitive every single season.

Uh we didn't play the Rams.

solardave wrote:

nine vegetable wrote:

Have to say, I really didn't expect our team to be very good this year.  So the fact that we have played toe to toe with 4 of the best teams in football (Chiefs, Rams, Chargers, Patriots***), is very encouraging.  Its maddening to lose to crappy teams because we could've been way high in the playoff seeding (as high as #2), instead of scrambling to maybe make the playoffs.

But considering where I thought we'd be, we're a lot more competitive than I expected.

And yes - Steelers fans are spoiled.  Try being a Lions fan or Browns fan and going decades without a winning season.  Makes you appreciate what we have - a team that is at least competitive every single season.

Uh we didn't play the Rams.

But we played the Saints instead, who are better than the Rams

If we weren't robbed by the refs against the Chargers and the Saints we would've been 3-1 against the top teams. I know Tomlin isn't the perfect coach and I agree it's time to move on from him once his contract has expired in 2 years. But imagine if last Sunday he would bring Dobbs in on the first drive to make him throw a deep ball into the endzone which got intercepted. And I think most people will agree that Sean Payton is a good head coach, but everyone has his flaws. I blame Boswell costing us 1.5 games against Browns and Raiders and refs costing us 2 games more than Tomlin this year if we won't make the play-offs. We would've been 12-3 and leading the AFC if Boswell and the refs didn't screw us over this year.

Stella Nation wrote:

solardave wrote:

nine vegetable wrote:

Have to say, I really didn't expect our team to be very good this year.  So the fact that we have played toe to toe with 4 of the best teams in football (Chiefs, Rams, Chargers, Patriots****), is very encouraging.  Its maddening to lose to crappy teams because we could've been way high in the playoff seeding (as high as #2), instead of scrambling to maybe make the playoffs.

But considering where I thought we'd be, we're a lot more competitive than I expected.

And yes - Steelers fans are spoiled.  Try being a Lions fan or Browns fan and going decades without a winning season.  Makes you appreciate what we have - a team that is at least competitive every single season.

Uh we didn't play the Rams.

But we played the Saints instead, who are better than the Rams

If we weren't robbed by the refs against the Chargers and the Saints we would've been 3-1 against the top teams. I know Tomlin isn't the perfect coach and I agree it's time to move on from him once his contract has expired in 2 years. But imagine if last Sunday he would bring Dobbs in on the first drive to make him throw a deep ball into the endzone which got intercepted. And I think most people will agree that Sean Payton is a good head coach, but everyone has his flaws. I blame Boswell costing us 1.5 games against Browns and Raiders and refs costing us 2 games more than Tomlin this year if we won't make the play-offs. We would've been 12-3 and leading the AFC if Boswell and the refs didn't screw us over this year.

Bingo. We're better than our record but not nearly as good when we play bad teams.
Tomlin has been bringing in other coaches to help out. He should bring Belicheat in to find out how and when he makes his payments to Goodell and Riveron. That would help out a lot.
In a different post you brought up Vegas odds and the whole betting issue. I think that's part of it but I also think that market share plays in. Not sure how. Maybe they have their own App to see who should win each game.I think we can all agree that the NFL is all about the money. They intend to squeeze every last dime out of us. While I don't think coaches and players are involved yet I also don't think it's far off. If we start seeing less info about future CBA agreements that to me would be a sign.

LambertWardSteel wrote:

Mach1 wrote:

nine vegetable wrote:

Have to say, I really didn't expect our team to be very good this year.  So the fact that we have played toe to toe with 4 of the best teams in football (Chiefs, Rams, Chargers, Patriots****), is very encouraging.  Its maddening to lose to crappy teams because we could've been way high in the playoff seeding (as high as #2), instead of scrambling to maybe make the playoffs.

But considering where I thought we'd be, we're a lot more competitive than I expected.

And yes - Steelers fans are spoiled.  Try being a Lions fan or Browns fan and going decades without a winning season.  Makes you appreciate what we have - a team that is at least competitive every single season.

Obviously you weren't around for the '80s and most of the '90s. lol

I really got to thinking about the 80's after a post I made in here the past week. Cliff Stoudt...Mark Malone...David Woodley....Bubby Brister...yikes. The D really was decimated after the Steel Curtain started retiring. Noll still managed a AFC CG in 1984, and came just short of one in 89.

1989 to me was the most miraculous Steelers season I've seen. They got hammered by Cincy and Clev the 1st two games something like 95-10, started the year 4-6, then went 5-1 and needed help from like 4-5 other teams last game of season to get in. They then went to the Astrodome and beat the Oilers in game everyone figured they'd lose. They went to Denver and almost won there which would have sent them to the AFC CG. The 89 Oilers playoff game is on Youtube and a lot of fun to watch now.

Noll had drafted the team Cowher took over in 92 that was very good but led by an average QB. Had he drafted Marino he may have won some more in the 90's if Cowher hadn't taken over.

I think the issue people right now have is Ben is the type QB that comes along very infrequently and the time is being wasted year in and year out. It's hard to say when the next franchise guy comes along. Maybe Rudolph is the guy, but it sucks to see winnable games blown, 2-14 teams beating us, and postseasons come and go, when everyone knows we're down to the last 3-4 Ben years. I don't think it's a matter of not appreciating what we have but more so not wanting to waste it.

A lot of this. When Ben is done its back to the '80's unless maybe Rudolph pans out.

solardave wrote:

Stella Nation wrote:

solardave wrote:

nine vegetable wrote:

Have to say, I really didn't expect our team to be very good this year.  So the fact that we have played toe to toe with 4 of the best teams in football (Chiefs, Rams, Chargers, Patriots*****), is very encouraging.  Its maddening to lose to crappy teams because we could've been way high in the playoff seeding (as high as #2), instead of scrambling to maybe make the playoffs.

But considering where I thought we'd be, we're a lot more competitive than I expected.

And yes - Steelers fans are spoiled.  Try being a Lions fan or Browns fan and going decades without a winning season.  Makes you appreciate what we have - a team that is at least competitive every single season.

Uh we didn't play the Rams.

But we played the Saints instead, who are better than the Rams

If we weren't robbed by the refs against the Chargers and the Saints we would've been 3-1 against the top teams. I know Tomlin isn't the perfect coach and I agree it's time to move on from him once his contract has expired in 2 years. But imagine if last Sunday he would bring Dobbs in on the first drive to make him throw a deep ball into the endzone which got intercepted. And I think most people will agree that Sean Payton is a good head coach, but everyone has his flaws. I blame Boswell costing us 1.5 games against Browns and Raiders and refs costing us 2 games more than Tomlin this year if we won't make the play-offs. We would've been 12-3 and leading the AFC if Boswell and the refs didn't screw us over this year.

Bingo. We're better than our record but not nearly as good when we play bad teams.
Tomlin has been bringing in other coaches to help out. He should bring Belicheat in to find out how and when he makes his payments to Goodell and Riveron. That would help out a lot.
In a different post you brought up Vegas odds and the whole betting issue. I think that's part of it but I also think that market share plays in. Not sure how. Maybe they have their own App to see who should win each game.I think we can all agree that the NFL is all about the money. They intend to squeeze every last dime out of us. While I don't think coaches and players are involved yet I also don't think it's far off. If we start seeing less info about future CBA agreements that to me would be a sign.

Market share is indeed another problem. It's clear that this year both LA teams are favored by the league. The better they perform the bigger the chance that the LA market finally gets interested in the NFL. And there's a lot of money to be found there.

It's also clear that since Tomlin's remarks on the officiating we often ended on the bad side of the refs' decisions. So after all, we can indeed blame Tomlin

Maybe we can start with firing Keith Butler? Why not right now? I mean after reading this, how does he prepare for a game?

https://steelersdepot.com/2018/12/keith-butler-says-tyler-eifert-will-be-a-problem-for-us-to-cover-eifert-is-on-injured-reserve/

Stella Nation wrote:

Maybe we can start with firing Keith Butler? Why not right now? I mean after reading this, how does he prepare for a game?

https://steelersdepot.com/2018/12/keith-butler-says-tyler-eifert-will-be-a-problem-for-us-to-cover-eifert-is-on-injured-reserve/

We should put Butler on injured reserve "designated not to come back".

Stella Nation wrote:

Maybe we can start with firing Keith Butler? Why not right now? I mean after reading this, how does he prepare for a game?

https://steelersdepot.com/2018/12/keith-butler-says-tyler-eifert-will-be-a-problem-for-us-to-cover-eifert-is-on-injured-reserve/

This is pretty alarming