the walking dead

Lokki wrote:

Wallace108 wrote:

Some info about the possible future of TWD. It might be particularly interesting to those who read the comics. Warning: Contains possible spoilers, so read at your own risk ...

But...

Spoiler:

Ugh...

Spoiler:

teegre wrote:

More clues about TWD being purgatory:

One Wolf says to the residents of Alexandria: "You're not supposed to be here."

Another Wolf says that it is "not our choice" to be there.



The Wolves appear to be already banished to Hell. Rick and his family are in limbo.  

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It better not be any purgatory crap. That was the scapegoat for Lost when they couldn't figure out how to tie up the loose ends (which they still left several open) and end the show. I think that there is something else going on with the Wolves.

IowaSteeler927 wrote:

Lokki wrote:

Wallace108 wrote:

Some info about the possible future of TWD. It might be particularly interesting to those who read the comics. Warning: Contains possible spoilers, so read at your own risk ...

But...

Spoiler:

Ugh...

Spoiler:

I'm holding out hope that this part changes from the comics as well. Just remember, comic Carol is totally different from show Carol. The same goes for Michonne.

Lokki wrote:

Wallace108 wrote:

Some info about the possible future of TWD. It might be particularly interesting to those who read the comics. Warning: Contains possible spoilers, so read at your own risk ...

But...

Spoiler:

I don't read the comics, so I'm not sure what your spoiler is in reference to. The possible spoiler I posted is in reference to something I've frequently stumbled across on the Internet. I'm familiar with the angle in that spoiler even though I don't read the comics, but I don't know all the details involved in it.

Wallace108 wrote:

Lokki wrote:

Wallace108 wrote:

Some info about the possible future of TWD. It might be particularly interesting to those who read the comics. Warning: Contains possible spoilers, so read at your own risk ...

But...

Spoiler:

I don't read the comics, so I'm not sure what your spoiler is in reference to. The possible spoiler I posted is in reference to something I've frequently stumbled across on the Internet. I'm familiar with the angle in that spoiler even though I don't read the comics, but I don't know all the details involved in it.

Lucille is the name of his weapon of choice.

Lokki wrote:

teegre wrote:

More clues about TWD being purgatory:

One Wolf says to the residents of Alexandria: "You're not supposed to be here."

Another Wolf says that it is "not our choice" to be there.



The Wolves appear to be already banished to Hell. Rick and his family are in limbo.  

.

It better not be any purgatory crap.  That was the scapegoat for Lost when they couldn't figure out how to tie up the loose ends (which they still left several open) and end the show.  I think that there is something else going on with the Wolves.  

If done right, it could be good. LOST could have done it right, but then, they did a half-purgatory for only season 6. So bad... so incredibly bad.



.

IowaSteeler927 wrote:

teegre wrote:

MORGAN vs. RICK:  
When Rick had Pete on the ground, and shot Pete... I could see Morgan's point. There might have been other ways to have dealt with Pete (e.g. banishment).

But, while the Wolves were attacking and slaughtering unarmed people, that was NOT the time to turn the other cheek.


I get what the writers are trying to do (what does it mean to be civilized/what does it mean to be human?)... but, the writer are not doing a good job of actually establishing Morgan's case. If anything, this past episode swung the pendulum heavily towards Rick's side.

Simply, Morgan was acting illogically.  

.

I am firmly on Rick and Carol's side when it comes to how they handle things. This is the zombie apocalypse. When Rick killed Pete that was a necessary action. Pete was dangerous. Violent with his own family, and he killed Reg as well. At that point, no trial was needed. Pete had to go. It'd be one thing if they tried him within the group for beating his wife or something along those lines, but when Pete killed somebody... there was no turning back at that point.

Morgan's actions are baffling to say the least. The Wolves are literally hacking your people to pieces in the streets of Alexandria and you politely ask them to leave? Then you let them leave, so they can go back and give intel to whomever is leading their group? Insanity. Morgan's actions are going to get more people killed. Lost a lot of respect for his character in this episode. In this world, you have to protect you and yours. People like the Wolves must be dealt with in a merciless manner. I think this is the first time Morgan is really seeing the horrors that Rick and his group have already been forced to confront. Morgan didn't have to deal with the Governor.

I'll say this in Morgan's defense: he had to "kill" his own zombified son.

As a result, he went completely insane (much like Rick did after Lori died). Once Morgan snapped out if it, he was a Buddhist. (Insert: Christianity vs. Buddhism allegories)


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teegre wrote:

IowaSteeler927 wrote:

teegre wrote:

MORGAN vs. RICK:  
When Rick had Pete on the ground, and shot Pete... I could see Morgan's point. There might have been other ways to have dealt with Pete (e.g. banishment).

But, while the Wolves were attacking and slaughtering unarmed people, that was NOT the time to turn the other cheek.


I get what the writers are trying to do (what does it mean to be civilized/what does it mean to be human?)... but, the writer are not doing a good job of actually establishing Morgan's case. If anything, this past episode swung the pendulum heavily towards Rick's side.

Simply, Morgan was acting illogically.  

.

I am firmly on Rick and Carol's side when it comes to how they handle things. This is the zombie apocalypse. When Rick killed Pete that was a necessary action. Pete was dangerous. Violent with his own family, and he killed Reg as well. At that point, no trial was needed. Pete had to go. It'd be one thing if they tried him within the group for beating his wife or something along those lines, but when Pete killed somebody... there was no turning back at that point.

Morgan's actions are baffling to say the least. The Wolves are literally hacking your people to pieces in the streets of Alexandria and you politely ask them to leave? Then you let them leave, so they can go back and give intel to whomever is leading their group? Insanity. Morgan's actions are going to get more people killed. Lost a lot of respect for his character in this episode. In this world, you have to protect you and yours. People like the Wolves must be dealt with in a merciless manner. I think this is the first time Morgan is really seeing the horrors that Rick and his group have already been forced to confront. Morgan didn't have to deal with the Governor.

I'll say this in Morgan's defense: he had to "kill" his own zombified son.  

As a result, he went completely insane (much like Rick did after Lori died).  Once Morgan snapped out if it, he was a Buddhist.  (Insert: Christianity vs. Buddhism allegories)  


.  

Makes sense. He needs to totally come to his senses though. Some people like the wolves are completely beyond redemption at this point, and letting them live endangers the few good people left in the world. I don't remember Morgan's character being like this in the comics, but it has been awhile since I've read them. Of course though, they make a lot of subtle (and some major) changes to the characters between the comics and the TV show.

IowaSteeler927 wrote:

teegre wrote:

IowaSteeler927 wrote:

teegre wrote:

MORGAN vs. RICK:  
When Rick had Pete on the ground, and shot Pete... I could see Morgan's point. There might have been other ways to have dealt with Pete (e.g. banishment).

But, while the Wolves were attacking and slaughtering unarmed people, that was NOT the time to turn the other cheek.


I get what the writers are trying to do (what does it mean to be civilized/what does it mean to be human?)... but, the writer are not doing a good job of actually establishing Morgan's case. If anything, this past episode swung the pendulum heavily towards Rick's side.

Simply, Morgan was acting illogically.  

.

I am firmly on Rick and Carol's side when it comes to how they handle things. This is the zombie apocalypse. When Rick killed Pete that was a necessary action. Pete was dangerous. Violent with his own family, and he killed Reg as well. At that point, no trial was needed. Pete had to go. It'd be one thing if they tried him within the group for beating his wife or something along those lines, but when Pete killed somebody... there was no turning back at that point.

Morgan's actions are baffling to say the least. The Wolves are literally hacking your people to pieces in the streets of Alexandria and you politely ask them to leave? Then you let them leave, so they can go back and give intel to whomever is leading their group? Insanity. Morgan's actions are going to get more people killed. Lost a lot of respect for his character in this episode. In this world, you have to protect you and yours. People like the Wolves must be dealt with in a merciless manner. I think this is the first time Morgan is really seeing the horrors that Rick and his group have already been forced to confront. Morgan didn't have to deal with the Governor.

I'll say this in Morgan's defense: he had to "kill" his own zombified son.  

As a result, he went completely insane (much like Rick did after Lori died).  Once Morgan snapped out if it, he was a Buddhist.  (Insert: Christianity vs. Buddhism allegories)  


.  

Makes sense. He needs to totally come to his senses though. Some people like the wolves are completely beyond redemption at this point, and letting them live endangers the few good people left in the world. I don't remember Morgan's character being like this in the comics, but it has been awhile since I've read them. Of course though, they make a lot of subtle (and some major) changes to the characters between the comics and the TV show.

Morgan's pacifism is so over the top, it must be setting something up for later on in the season.


.

teegre wrote:

IowaSteeler927 wrote:

teegre wrote:

IowaSteeler927 wrote:

teegre wrote:

MORGAN vs. RICK:  
When Rick had Pete on the ground, and shot Pete... I could see Morgan's point. There might have been other ways to have dealt with Pete (e.g. banishment).

But, while the Wolves were attacking and slaughtering unarmed people, that was NOT the time to turn the other cheek.


I get what the writers are trying to do (what does it mean to be civilized/what does it mean to be human?)... but, the writer are not doing a good job of actually establishing Morgan's case. If anything, this past episode swung the pendulum heavily towards Rick's side.

Simply, Morgan was acting illogically.  

.

I am firmly on Rick and Carol's side when it comes to how they handle things. This is the zombie apocalypse. When Rick killed Pete that was a necessary action. Pete was dangerous. Violent with his own family, and he killed Reg as well. At that point, no trial was needed. Pete had to go. It'd be one thing if they tried him within the group for beating his wife or something along those lines, but when Pete killed somebody... there was no turning back at that point.

Morgan's actions are baffling to say the least. The Wolves are literally hacking your people to pieces in the streets of Alexandria and you politely ask them to leave? Then you let them leave, so they can go back and give intel to whomever is leading their group? Insanity. Morgan's actions are going to get more people killed. Lost a lot of respect for his character in this episode. In this world, you have to protect you and yours. People like the Wolves must be dealt with in a merciless manner. I think this is the first time Morgan is really seeing the horrors that Rick and his group have already been forced to confront. Morgan didn't have to deal with the Governor.

I'll say this in Morgan's defense: he had to "kill" his own zombified son.  

As a result, he went completely insane (much like Rick did after Lori died).  Once Morgan snapped out if it, he was a Buddhist.  (Insert: Christianity vs. Buddhism allegories)  


.  

Makes sense. He needs to totally come to his senses though. Some people like the wolves are completely beyond redemption at this point, and letting them live endangers the few good people left in the world. I don't remember Morgan's character being like this in the comics, but it has been awhile since I've read them. Of course though, they make a lot of subtle (and some major) changes to the characters between the comics and the TV show.

Morgan's pacifism is so over the top, it must be setting something up for later on in the season.  


.

I concur. It'll be interesting to see what happens to say the least.

teegre wrote:

Lokki wrote:

teegre wrote:

More clues about TWD being purgatory:

One Wolf says to the residents of Alexandria: "You're not supposed to be here."

Another Wolf says that it is "not our choice" to be there.



The Wolves appear to be already banished to Hell. Rick and his family are in limbo.  

.

It better not be any purgatory crap.  That was the scapegoat for Lost when they couldn't figure out how to tie up the loose ends (which they still left several open) and end the show.  I think that there is something else going on with the Wolves.  

If done right, it could be good.  LOST could have done it right, but then, they did a half-purgatory for only season 6.  So bad... so incredibly bad.  



.

I just re-watched the episode. He says:

We're freeing you. You're trapped. You're not supposed to be here.

Yep... sounds like purgatory.


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remember the lady carol gave the gun to and told her to shoot anyone that comes through the armory door......i wonder if she shoots someone important today......carol perhaps?

vasteeler wrote:

remember the lady carol gave the gun to and told her to shoot anyone that comes through the armory  door......i wonder if she shoots someone important today......carol perhaps?

At the end of "JSS", when Morgan went into that house, this is exactly what I thought was going to happen to him.

Okay... kids are almost asleep. Time to get ready for this week's episode.

.

Wow! After watching the first three episodes of this season, it makes me dislike the mediocrity of Fear the Walking Dead even more. I don't watch TWD because of the zombies ... I watch it because of the story. And what I saw in this episode was absolute brilliant story telling.

As Glenn and Nicholas were wondering through the streets and alleys, I said to my wife, "Ha! Glenn probably feels like he's back in Atlanta." I didn't put a whole lot of thought into that comment ... there was just something about it that reminded me of the first couple of episodes of the series. Then watching The Talking Dead, someone mentioned that Glenn called Rick a dumb ass on the walkie talkie. He also called Rick a dumb ass at the end of the very first episode in the series. I remember that scene clearly, but I didn't make the connection while watching this episode. However, the fact that I thought about the Atlanta scenes while watching Glenn and Nicholas look for an escape wasn't a coincidence ... the writers were trying to flash us back to the first time we met Glenn. And then we also got the story of the Alexandria guy who knew he was going to die and wanted Michonne to give his wife the note telling her goodbye ... it was obviously a parallel and foreshadowing of Glenn's story. Absolute brilliant story telling. Absolute brilliant episode. And it makes me hate Fear the Walking Dead even more.

If you've read this far and get spoiled by what I say next, it's your own fault ...

Glenn was one of the few original characters left, and I was really surprised to see him die. Based on what was said on The Talking Dead, I expect to see zombie Glenn at some point.

IowaSteeler927 wrote:

Glenn was one of the few original characters left, and I was really surprised to see him die. Based on what was said on The Talking Dead, I expect to see zombie Glenn at some point.

Spoiler:

SPOLIERS ahead...

They better not do something crafty, like have Nicholas on top of Glenn (and Glenn somehow lives).  If they're gonna kill him off, then just do it.  

That said, his death was unceremonious.  I wish he'd lit the fire, saving everyone... but, gets trapped/killed.  As it is, he fell off of a dumpster.  At least on LOST, Charlie had a great exit (so did Sun & Jin).  Glenn...  

.

teegre wrote:

IowaSteeler927 wrote:

Glenn was one of the few original characters left, and I was really surprised to see him die. Based on what was said on The Talking Dead, I expect to see zombie Glenn at some point.

Spoiler:

SPOLIERS ahead...

They better not do something crafty, like have Nicholas on top of Glenn (and Glenn somehow lives).  If they're gonna kill him off, then just do it.  

That said, his death was unceremonious.  I wish he'd lit the fire, saving everyone... but, gets trapped/killed.  As it is, he fell off of a dumpster.  At least on LOST, Charlie had a great exit (so did Sun & Jin).  Glenn...  

.

**SPOILERS** Do not read this spoiler post if you don't want to know of anything that's gone on in last Sunday's Walking Dead TV episode, or if you haven't read through the Walking Dead comics.

Spoiler:

IowaSteeler927 wrote:

**SPOILERS** Do not read this spoiler post if you don't want to know of anything that's gone on in last Sunday's Walking Dead TV episode, or if you haven't read through the Walking Dead comics.

Spoiler:

SPOILERS!!!  

Spoiler:

This episode has generated more buzz than any other Walking Dead episode has received in a long time. Is Glenn really dead? Could he possibly survive? While the vagueness of the scene and the vagueness of the crew's response to questions are helping to fuel the buzz, I think there will be a lot of pissed off people either way. Some people will be pissed if Glenn is really dead. Other people will be pissed if it was just a cheap ploy. Although they managed to create a lot of buzz, they're ultimately going to piss off a lot of fans regardless of what happens.

teegre wrote:

Glenn leaving behind Maggie is what makes his death so awful

That pertains to a theory I've been thinking about ...

They gave us the story of the Alexandria dude knowing he was going to die. He wrote a note for Michonne to give to his wife. Trying to inspire him, Michonne told him to give it to her himself. In the end, he dies, and the note never gets delivered to his wife. He never got to say goodbye to her. Those weren't just throwaway scenes. They included that for a reason.

Right now, they want us to think that Glenn is dead and, meeting the same fate as the Alexandria guy, never got to say goodbye to Maggie. But what if Glenn does survive but was bit (I explain more about that below), and he returns to Alexandria. Unlike the Alexandria dude, he gets to say goodbye to Maggie. Knowing his fate, he asks Maggie to kill him, but she can't. Then later on, he somehow sacrifices himself to protect his group from the Wolves, thus dying in a heroic way.

I think I can accept something similar to that. But I'm not sure I can accept that he escapes from his situation completely unscathed.

IowaSteeler927 wrote:

I don't think he's dead. They're being awfully shady about it. No memorium on Talking Dead. The weird camera angle that left things open to interpretation. The fact that Nicholas fell on top of Glenn, if that's the case how were they ripping his intestines out? The fact that nobody has come out and concretely confirmed his death... I don't think he's dead just yet.

The most popular theory right now seems to be that Nicholas fell on top of him, it's Nicholas' guts we see being ripped out, and Glenn somehow escapes ... possibly by crawling under the dumpster. There are a few problems I have with that theory:

1. Even if Nicholas was on top of him, Glenn's body wouldn't be completely covered. His torso might be protected momentarily, but it's a tough sell that his arms and legs were completely covered. I'll leave open the possibility that he could escape, but to me, it's totally unrealistic to think he could get out of that situation without getting bit somewhere.

2. Even if he was able to craw under the dumpster, what's to stop a zombie or two from following him?

This is a TV show, so even the impossible is possible. But I'll be disappointed if Glenn somehow survives unscathed. Not only would it require a deus ex machina of epic proportions, but then when Glenn actually is killed later on, it'll make his death less impactful. I think they would have to make his death one of the most heroic deaths in TV history in order to counter the fake death.

Right now, I'm not going to definitively predict Glenn's fate one way or the other. But short of a miracle, there's no possible way he'd be able to survive.

He barely survived this:



How could he survive this?


" />" />

The thing is, I don't think it will be answered with this coming up episode. It seems like it is shifting back over to Morgan and others. We may not know for 2 weeks.

Wallace108 wrote:

How could he survive this?
" />" />

See though Nicholas was easy access. Zombies are going to eat him first because he's right there on top. That fact could buy Glenn the precious few seconds he'd need to somehow, albeit miraculously, get away. Not to mention all of those zombies in that frame are a bit of a visual trick. Realistically no matter how many there are, still only a handful of them will be able to actually get to the Glenn/Nicholas buffet and get their hands on because of the pileup the sheer number of them causes.

Wallace108 wrote:

This episode has generated more buzz than any other Walking Dead episode has received in a long time. Is Glenn really dead? Could he possibly survive? While the vagueness of the scene and the vagueness of the crew's response to questions are helping to fuel the buzz, I think there will be a lot of pissed off people either way. Some people will be pissed if Glenn is really dead. Other people will be pissed if it was just a cheap ploy. Although they managed to create a lot of buzz, they're ultimately going to piss off a lot of fans regardless of what happens.

teegre wrote:

Glenn leaving behind Maggie is what makes his death so awful

That pertains to a theory I've been thinking about ...

They gave us the story of the Alexandria dude knowing he was going to die. He wrote a note for Michonne to give to his wife. Trying to inspire him, Michonne told him to give it to her himself. In the end, he dies, and the note never gets delivered to his wife. He never got to say goodbye to her. Those weren't just throwaway scenes. They included that for a reason.

Right now, they want us to think that Glenn is dead and, meeting the same fate as the Alexandria guy, never got to say goodbye to Maggie. But what if Glenn does survive but was bit (I explain more about that below), and he returns to Alexandria. Unlike the Alexandria dude, he gets to say goodbye to Maggie. Knowing his fate, he asks Maggie to kill him, but she can't. Then later on, he somehow sacrifices himself to protect his group from the Wolves, thus dying in a heroic way.

I think I can accept something similar to that. But I'm not sure I can accept that he escapes from his situation completely unscathed.

IowaSteeler927 wrote:

I don't think he's dead. They're being awfully shady about it. No memorium on Talking Dead. The weird camera angle that left things open to interpretation. The fact that Nicholas fell on top of Glenn, if that's the case how were they ripping his intestines out? The fact that nobody has come out and concretely confirmed his death... I don't think he's dead just yet.

The most popular theory right now seems to be that Nicholas fell on top of him, it's Nicholas' guts we see being ripped out, and Glenn somehow escapes ... possibly by crawling under the dumpster. There are a few problems I have with that theory:

1. Even if Nicholas was on top of him, Glenn's body wouldn't be completely covered. His torso might be protected momentarily, but it's a tough sell that his arms and legs were completely covered. I'll leave open the possibility that he could escape, but to me, it's totally unrealistic to think he could get out of that situation without getting bit somewhere.

2. Even if he was able to craw under the dumpster, what's to stop a zombie or two from following him?

This is a TV show, so even the impossible is possible. But I'll be disappointed if Glenn somehow survives unscathed. Not only would it require a deus ex machina of epic proportions, but then when Glenn actually is killed later on, it'll make his death less impactful. I think they would have to make his death one of the most heroic deaths in TV history in order to counter the fake death.

Right now, I'm not going to definitively predict Glenn's fate one way or the other. But short of a miracle, there's no possible way he'd be able to survive.

Great post.


This entire season takes place in ONE day.

Which means that Glenn could get bitten (in that sea of Walkers), survive long enough to still be a part of the remainder of this season. Then, he sacrifices himself, in order to save the group... which is a better death scene.

(SPOILER: Nagen is going to bash one of them. Glenn volunteers, because he's gonna die anyway.)



.

IowaSteeler927 wrote:

See though Nicholas was easy access. Zombies are going to eat him first because he's right there on top. That fact could buy Glenn the precious few seconds he'd need to somehow, albeit miraculously, get away. Not to mention all of those zombies in that frame are a bit of a visual trick. Realistically no matter how many there are, still only a handful of them will be able to actually get to the Glenn/Nicholas buffet and get their hands on because of the pileup the sheer number of them causes.  

I understand your rationale, and based on everything I've read the past week, I have a feeling you're going to end up being right. With that said, I still have a hard time accepting that he can get out of there unscathed. Depending on how they pull it off, I can accept him surviving. But in order to accept that he gets out of there without a single bite, it's going to take some kind of deus ex machina that tests my ability to suspend disbelief. If he survives completely unscathed, I'll accept it, but I won't like it.

teegre wrote:

Great post.  


This entire season takes place in ONE day.  

Which means that Glenn could get bitten (in that sea of Walkers), survive long enough to still be a part of the remainder of this season.  Then, he sacrifices himself, in order to save the group... which is a better death scene.  

(SPOILER: Nagen is going to bash one of them.  Glenn volunteers, because he's gonna die anyway.)  

Thanks Teegre.

Hmmm, I wasn't aware that the season takes place in the span of one day. If that's true, then I think we might be on the right path to how this plays out. SPOILERISH stuff below ....



Since I wasn't aware that the season spanned only one day, I was focusing on the Wolves and wasn't factoring Negan into my theory. But having the season take place all in one day allows for Glenn to get bitten, survive, and then (as you said) meet his fate at the hands (er, bat) of Negan.

We'll probably be way off the mark, but what we're thinking is certainly plausible.

Well in the graphic novel, Glenn dies A LONG time ago with a bat to the head, so his death was overdue. He was just so darn likeable in the show.

My guess? He is under Dickless, survives by being covered in blood/zombie blood, but sustains a bite which gives him enough time to go back and have a tearful goodbye with Maggie.